random alcohol-related question

[JoitheArtist]

Ok, so this is a slightly weird question, but there's people here who know a lot more than me on this, so I figured what the hey, can't hurt to ask.

As part of a general effort towards self-improvement, I've been wanting to find out more about alcohol: how to tell what's good (it's gotta be about more than the price tag), how to know which ones go together well, etc. I know what I like, but I have a sneaking suspicion that what I like is junk, and I'd like to learn to enjoy the good stuff.

The problem is, I don't have a lot of extra cash, so my ability to experiment with stuff is pretty limited.

Any ideas?

[RetailWorkhorse]

Joi, ya got the resources at your fingertips and it doesn't cost you naught but the monthly fee to connect every day. The Internet. Locate a couple home-bar oriented websites and you'll find your answers.

[SteeleDragon78]

when i decided to be a bartender i went and got a book called "the bartenders bible". that helped me learn allot about the different spirits. next i hit the library and read up on the histories of the ones i liked. most good tenders that ive met agree that whats good doesnt always taste good to everyone. i personally cant stand cognac, but love bourbon. many high falutin folks would prefer the cognac over my cheap bourbon.

research is usually free, but tastings can help expand you pallet, there are a few wineries in cali that offer tastings on the cheap. for other spirits travel is involved. a trip to a nice bar you might be able to sweettalk the tender into sample shots. experiment alot, you will find that your tastes will change as you try different drinks and different combos with food too. hope that helps

[KiaKat]

One of my favourite sites is http://www.liquorsnob.com/ - the writers really know their liquor, and they're very, very good at talking about *why* certain brands are better.

If you're interested in attending events, check out http://www.localwineevents.com for tastings and seminars. Some of them are free, some have a small cost, but there is always something going on nearby.

If you have a local nice wine store, find out if they do tastings and classes. Tastings are usually held by the distributors, so you know they *really* know their product. If your local liquor store isn't scary (does it have bulletproof glass? That's scary), they might have tastings and classes as well.

And check out books also. The Wine Bible is good, so is The Oxford Companion to Wine, and How To Taste. The last two were written/edited by Jancis Robinson, an MS who is considered one of the top experts in the world.

[JoitheArtist]

One of my favourite sites is http://www.liquorsnob.com/

Thanks! I'm always leery of internet research, simply because there's so much stuff out there. It's hard to tell who's actually reliable. So thanks for the link!

There is a wine bar in my area, it's just a little expensive. I'm ok with wines--I know I prefer red to white, and tend to like pinot noir.

[KiaKat]

You would be amazed at the variety in wine. I've been studying now for almost five years, and *still* don't understand a lot of the blends and varietals.

Also, if you can pin down what flavours you prefer in wines, it will help with other liquors. For example, since you like white wines, you'll probably not find many scotches and whiskeys to your liking, but vodka, limoncello, gin, and rum will probably be to your tastes. Cognacs and Armagnacs are another area of study you might find appealing - definitely see if you can find a Calvados or two, and experiment with the higher-end tequilas, because some of them can have layers of flavour.

[JoitheArtist]

Also, if you can pin down what flavours you prefer in wines, it will help with other liquors. For example, since you like white wines, you'll probably not find many scotches and whiskeys to your liking, but vodka, limoncello, gin, and rum will probably be to your tastes. Cognacs and Armagnacs are another area of study you might find appealing - definitely see if you can find a Calvados or two, and experiment with the higher-end tequilas, because some of them can have layers of flavour.

Actually, I don't like white wines--I've heard they're supposed to be sweeter, but I don't like them even though I have a bad sweeth tooth. I like reds a lot. I also know that I like rum and schnapps.

[KiaKat]

I apparently switched those around. >.< I guess I'm a bit distracted today.

Sweet wines are those that have more residual sugar (sugar left over after fermentation is finished) and can be either red or white. If you prefer sweet, look for Rieslings that have one of the following terms on the label: Trockenbeerenauslese, Auslese, Spatlese, Beerenauslese, or Ice Wine (although that last is really a dessert wine). Sweet reds are difficult to find, mostly because the majority of them come across like Manichewitz, and have a chemical tang...the exception being the Italian sparkling dessert wines, like Lambrusco and Brachetto.

If you like Pinot Noir, check out Italian Dolcetto or German Dornfelder.

I have an affinity for unusual wines, can you tell? :)

[digilight]

Honestly though, whats wrong with having cheap taste in booze, as long as its what you enjoy. I was a boozer for a many years and enjoyed everything from the expensive to the cheap. A few things that I would recommend is to work your way into more mid-leval booze at first (no need to go for a highend single malted scotch, or a real nice single barrel bourbon at first).

Go for call drinks not well drinks (well liquors are generally cheap and lowend) An example would be, Well Bourbon might be Early Times, while Call Bourbon would be Jack Daniels, and Top Shelf Bourbon would be Makers Mark or Jack Daniels Single Barrel.

Find a knowledgeble bar tender and ask him/her for ideas and suggestions. They might be willing to even short pour a couple of drinks to equal one normal drinks (give you a two for one tasting perhaps).

Oh yeah...and listen to Jester, cause you know he'll be coming in here soon and he is the booze king :)

[Evil Queen]

Jester will definately know.

I'll pester the DataJager into stopping by; he's knowledgeable in the liquer field. :)

[AdminAssistant]

Well Bourbon might be Early Times, while Call Bourbon would be Jack Daniels, and Top Shelf Bourbon would be Makers Mark or Jack Daniels Single Barrel.

At my bar back in KC, the well was Old Crow. NASTY.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

See if any of your friends are into good alcohol at all. Most people tend to be into a certain type of alcohol---they might be into wine, or micro-brews, or cocktails, or something else specific---and most people would be glad to educate you about what type they're into. That could make for a fun night spent at home with a friend.


Okay, my particular preference is for sweet and/or fortified wines. In the US, sweet wines tend to get a bad rep. I don't know why, but many Americans often frown upon sweet wines, seeing them as indicating a lack of sophistication or an element of inferiority, but a good sweet wine can have layers upon layers of complexity. Yum!

There are different types of sweet wines---one type is made using grapes that have been attacked by a certain fungus known vernacularly as Noble Rot. These wines are usually made in France or Germany, [/i]Sauternes[/i] being one example, because the fungus occurs naturally there.

Another way is to use grapes that have been frozen on the vine. These are made all over the world although they originated in Germany. They tend to be more expensive because of the time intensive labor to produce them, but oh my Bog are they tasty. I love a good Eiswein.

Fortified wines are wines to which distilled alcohol(usually brandy) has been added. This was originally done to preserve the wines, but it also made them sweeter and stronger than normal. Common fortified wines are port, sherry, madeira, marsala and vermouth. I am addicted to fortified wines, especially good Sherry or Port. I love to drink them after dinner.

I also like to drink brandy and cognac, which are types of wines that have been distilled. I tend to cook a lot with brandy. In fact yesterday I made Brandy Plum Cake. :D

[DataJager]

So. You wanna learn about alcohol, but you want to do it on the cheap. Fine, this isn't too hard.

First, you probably should get a few friends to help you on this endeavour. Alcohol's always better with more people. Plus it's easier to buy in bulk and your friends can chip in for the liquor.

Secondly, you'll need to find a liquor store that isn't horribly overpriced. If you live in a state that sells hard liquor in grocery stores this is easy, just watch the grocery store's sales ad and buy whatever is on sale that is at least $10 per 750ml/ "Fifth". Otherwise try to find a chain store like a Spec's since their prices are more regular and they run specials.

From here it's just a matter of experimentation, but for the real cheapskate read on.
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You need:
A bottle of cheap, preferrably Russian Vodka. (Probably the 1.75L for $15-20 kind)
A Brita Pitcher/Filter
A spare glass bottle or Jar, at least 1 L in volume.
A funnel.
A Bartender's cocktail shaker
A shotglass or rocks glass.
Ice, about 20 cubes or a large glassful.

All this should set you back maybe $50. But it will give you high quality Vodka for cheap ($15 per L versus $40 per L)

After you have 'primed' the filter as the instructions tell you to, carefully pour the vodka into the filter and allow it to filter through. Use the extra bottle to hold the filtered Vodka since you cannot pour 1.75 L into the pitcher and you do not want to mix the raw Vodka with the Filtered. Make sure you use the pitcher lid and put the pitcher in the refrigerator while it is filtering so that it doesn't lose alcohol content to evaporation. Do this at least 5 times. This will remove many of the impurites from the vodka, making it 'higher quality'. We're using Russian Vodka for this since it has a distinct taste that will become a bit less obvious during the filtration. American Vodka has no discernable taste and thus is best as a mixer.

Anyway, when you're sick of filtering, try the vodka. It is best if you put 2-4 cubes of ice into the cocktail shaker and pour in about 2 oz of Vodka (no need to be exact) and then put the shaker lid on and shake. This will chill the vodka nicely. Fill a 1 oz shot glass and drink, or just pour into a rocks glass and sip.

Many people can't tell whether the vodka is good vodka or if it is horrible vodka until the next morning (when the impurities and dehydration bring on a hangover). However, filtered vodka is basically high quality vodka. Unlike most liquors vodka isn't aged (that I know of) so the only way it can get better is for it to be more pure through distillation or filtration.

You can do this with other liquors, however I suggest only doing so with clear ones. Vodka is the best for this as a true American vodka has no taste and thus no taste is lost through the filtration process. Aged liquors may lose their taste through filtration or even their color. Vodka mixes very well and is my personal favorite of all hard liquors, so this trick is very handy. It does work, and there have been tests to prove such. I will try to find the articles.

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Anyway, growing up all the parties I went to involved lots of pure shots and very few mixed drinks. Ultimately I think this is horrible since very few liquors have any 'taste' when taken straight, they just burn your throat. Considering this, I am going to make a few mixer suggestions. Scotch and Brandy are the only drinks I suggest you ever drink straight more than once. Some people like Jim Beam and Jack Daniels straight but I think they are pretty awful.

You should buy:

At the Liquor Store
Sweet and Sour
Grenadine
Triple Sec

At the Grocery Store

Orange Juice
Pineapple Juice
Cranberry Juice
Coke, Pepsi or Dr. Pepper
Club Soda

These three are the main ingredients in a variety of drinks and have been for a very long time. With these and the following liquors you can make

Vodka: Kamikaze, Cape Cod, Vodka Collins, Cosmopolitan, Screwdriver.
Tequila: Margarita, Tequila Sunrise
Whiskey: Whiskey Sour, Whiskey and Soda, Jack and Coke
Rum: Most fruity drinks, like a Blue Hawaiian or a Bahama Mama or a Hurricane.(With some blue food coloring possibly)
Gin: Tom Collins, (Singapore Sling if you had some Cherry Brandy)
Scotch: Same mixers as Whiskey, but good Scotch shouldn't be mixed.

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Other stuff:

If you're going to drink a lot, do not consume Beer before you drink Liquor, it can cause you to vomit. I think it has to do the with the beer's malt and/or carbonation. Generally you need to drink about 3 beers for this to work.

When drinking, do not consume more than 2 types of liquor in a 4 to 8 hour period since this can cause you to be very sick as well (e.g. Don't have a Bloody Mary, a Hurricane and a Tequila Sunrise all in one go). Your body doesn't like handling liquor at all, let alone 6 different types, each with their own impurities.

Please drink in moderation, remember your body can only convert about 1 shot per hour. Alcohol's effects take about 15 minutes to kick in and alcohol poisoning is very possible. Don't try to drink a bottle alone and more than 4 shots in an hour may be excessive. Thankfully, alcohol's side effects can help you stop drinking.

Never drink cheap whiskey, try to stay over $20 a fifth. Cheap whiskey should ONLY be used for cooking since it tastes awful and burns horribly.

Russian Vodka has a taste, American Vodka isn't supposed to, (by law I believe).

Cointreau is just fancy Triple Sec. Blue Curacao is just Triple Sec with Blue Dye.
Chambord is merely another name for Raspberry Schnapps.
Buttershots is Butterscotch Schnapps.
Grenadine is really Pomegranate Juice.

Jagermeister is a German Liquor originally made with Deer's Blood (this is no longer the case) and over 60 herbs, it is very potent so despite its low (80) proof, do not think it won't mess you up. A lot of people do like it, it mixes well with Monster Energy drinks or with equal portions of Goldschlager and Bailey's.

Absinthe is not safe in my opinion (it causes hallucinations) and is pretty hard to find in the US anyway.

"Well Liquor" (the cheapest liquor available at a bar) is often more horrible than the $10 per L stuff I'm suggesting. Don't drink too much or your hangover may be tremendous.

Vanilla Vodka and other pre-mixed Vodkas are mostly a marketing ploy. If you want these flavors, they sell them as extracts in the Baking Aisle.

Brandy should be served warm by warming the snifter with a lighter or candle and then pouring the liquor in.

One cool trick with liquor is to make an Italian Flag. Get some Grenadine, 151 Rum and Midori and a tall 2oz shotglass. Pour the grenadine in until it fills 1/3 of the glass, then do the same for the 151 rum and then the midori. Pouring on to a bar spoon will help the layering process. If done correctly the shot looks exactly like an Italian Flag. None of the liquors / liqueurs should mix due to their weights. In bartending stacking liqueurs like this is called 'floating'.

Premade Drink Mixes (e.g. Bloody Mary mix) are a good way to taste some of the more complex drinks. This way you know you got the measurments right.

Never drink sake (Japanese Rice Wine) at room temperature (e.g. 70- 100 degrees F)

If you want to know if a bar is truly well stocked ask them to show you the Galliano.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. If anyone has any more important information, post it here or contact me. There's a reason I'm called DataJager.

[SteeleDragon78]

Go for call drinks not well drinks (well liquors are generally cheap and lowend) An example would be, Well Bourbon might be Early Times, while Call Bourbon would be Jack Daniels, and Top Shelf Bourbon would be Makers Mark or Jack Daniels Single Barrel.


hate to nitpick here, but Jack aint bourbon. its a tennessee whiskey. only whiskeys that can be called bourbon are the ones made in bourbon county kentucky.

and jack is made differently, it has more rice and other ingredients in the mash where bourbon is at least 51% corn in the mash. and most bourbons are aged like wine for around 6 years. better bourbons are aged in charred oak for 10-20 years before bottling. as far as price goes i drink eligah craig special reserve which only goes for around $30 a bottle. /nitpic

[KiaKat]

Grenadine hasn't been pomegranate juice for a long time, unfortunately. Most of the current ones on the market are simply high fructose corn syrup mixed with artificial flavourings and a whole lot of colour. If you look hard, you might be able to find an expensive one that still has real pomegranate and cherry juice in it, but it's just easier to make your own - I've found, at least. Ditto for sour mix, and sweetened lime juice.

For sour mix, use a 1 to 1 ratio of lemon and lime juice, and add in simple syrup (1 to 1 ratio of sugar/water) to taste. Generally, I don't mix them until I'm making the drink. For lime juice, 1 to 1 ratio of lime and simple syrup. Maybe a little less, as I don't like my drinks particularly sweet, and I really only use that if I'm making Margaritas or Gimlets. For grenadine, 2 to 1 to 1.5 of pomegranate, cherry (I've found that sour cherry makes for a nice bite), and simple syrup.

For any of those, keep the excess in the fridge - and watch out because the grenadine will stain. No matter how careful you are, it always stains.

Hmm....a few other nitpicky things...

Absinthe - there is much debate over Absinthe, but it is currently generally held that the levels of thujone found in properly made (i.e. no mercury added) Absinthe are not enough to trigger the psychoactive qualities historically attributed to the drink. People I know who have had it say they had no hallucinations, and since it is becoming more widely distributed in recent months, I think we'd probably hear if there were adverse side effects.

Triple Sec - use Cointreau or Grand Marnier, unless you're making a drink that is so mixed, the quality simply doesn't matter. The lower quality liqueurs always give me a headache.

[AdminAssistant]

hate to nitpick here, but Jack aint bourbon. its a tennessee whiskey. only whiskeys that can be called bourbon are the ones made in bourbon county kentucky.

Mmmmm...Tennessee Sour Mash. :D My parents went to Lynchburg when they were dating. :lol: Evan Williams is the slightly cheaper and much nastier alternative to Jack Daniels. Don't do it! It tastes awful.

Personally, I don't recommend novice drinkers start out on whiskey. It's stout stuff, it burns, and it can give you a hangover like nobody's business. Rum's a good beginner's liquor. It's sweet, tasty, and you can put it in damn near anything.

The Mythbusters tested the vodka filtration myth - and they had to filter the vodka 7 times with new filters each time to get the cheap vodka to taste like the good vodka. Now I don't drink vodka, but a good rule of thumb is to pick up middle-of-the-road grade for mixers and pretty good stuff for shooting/sipping. Don't bother with Popov, and your liver will thank you.

[JoitheArtist]

DataJager: Dang...that's a lot of info. It's also largely the sort of info I was looking for, THANK YOU!

Thanks to all! :)

[JoitheArtist]

Honestly though, whats wrong with having cheap taste in booze, as long as its what you enjoy. I was a boozer for a many years and enjoyed everything from the expensive to the cheap. A few things that I would recommend is to work your way into more mid-leval booze at first (no need to go for a highend single malted scotch, or a real nice single barrel bourbon at first).

I don't have any problems with liking cheap crap. :) I just want to make sure that #1, it's not the only thing I like and #2, that I know enough to at least be able to appreciate the good stuff. For instance, I like some crap poetry. I'm ok with that. But I also learned to appreciate T.S. Eliot and Dante. I just want to have that range open to me.


Find a knowledgeble bar tender and ask him/her for ideas and suggestions. They might be willing to even short pour a couple of drinks to equal one normal drinks (give you a two for one tasting perhaps).

I have one friend who was a bartender, and he's really good about mixing drinks that he thinks each person might like. Sadly, he's on the other side of the country. But he might be moving back to LA soon. I'll have to go bug him. :)

[Jester]

listen to Jester, cause you know he'll be coming in here soon and he is the booze king

Okay, now that is a bit much. Yes, I enjoy booze. Yes, I am a bartender. But the booze king? Please. Not even. I will be the first to admit that I have much to learn, even in the areas that I have picked up much knowledge and have much experience (beer, rum, margaritas).

I also know that I like rum....

Now in THAT category, I might very well be able to help you. Just drop me a PM, and we can talk about rum, one of my favorite liquid subjects!

Honestly though, whats wrong with having cheap taste in booze, as long as its what you enjoy. first.

This is correct. The most important thing about drinking "good" drinks is that the drinks in question are good to YOU. I drink red wine with fish, despite what the wine "purists" tell me I should do. Why? Because I like mellow red wines and strong fish, often spicy, and the two tastes coimplement each other rather well, thank you very much. And more to the point, I LIKE IT, even if it is "wrong" according to the purists.

You know what I say? Fuck the purists. Drink what you enjoy, even if it's horribly cheap lame weak American beer out of some sweaty hairy fat guy's bathtub.

I don't have any problems with liking cheap crap. :) I just want to make sure that #1, it's not the only thing I like and #2, that I know enough to at least be able to appreciate the good stuff.

Again, the good stuff is what you like. I have had "good" versions of various things, and not enjoyed them, and enjoyed immensely some "cheap" versions of other things.

Don't get me wrong, I love a glass of Opus One, and enjoy the hell out of Pyrat Cask 1623 rum. But I'll also throw down a Corona or a Miller Lite with enjoyment, and frankly don't care for some of the "better" drinks I've had.

It's all personal enjoyment.

So enjoy! :wave:

[Jester]

Oh, and by the way, if anyone wants to ask specific questions about beer and/or rum, those are the two areas of drinks that I have significant knowledge and experience in.

Feel free to post said questions here or PM me if you prefer.

I can offer some advice in other areas from my experience as a bartender and a drinker, but it's not going to be "expert" advice, as it were. (NOT that I fancy myself an expert with beer or rum, mind you, but I am closer in those areas than in others.)