Dear Abby is a traitor

[Kiwi]

I always read dear Abby, but I wont be for a looooong time.

In her thread today which I buy the paper for, she was answering an obese customers complaint that the hostess wouldnt sit them at a booth because they wouldnt fit into the space between the chair and the table.

today she wrote in her advice the dreaded phrase

"the customer is always right"

and even worse " what you encounted was a poorly trained employee who lacked basic intelligence and tact"

what a freaking cow, doesnt she teach that you shouldnt judge a person in a lower station.....sure the tact part is correct but the other two comments are WAY out of line.

basic intelligence....wow I am steamed at that comment. She has totally just lost a reader.

[Rapscallion]

Dear Abby,

I'd like to ask how a superior intellect is able to fit a large peg into a small hole, what with my basic intelligence being unable to find a way to do this.

Rapscallion

Got me curious - got a link for this?

Rapscallion

[Kiwi]

http://www.uexpress.com/dearabby/?uc_full_date=20061007

heres the link

--Posts merged--

heres my letter I just submitted to her

Dear Abby,

I am writing to you today in disbelief at one of your answers to a letter that was published in the Kamloops Daily Times Saturday, October 08, 2006. The letter was about an obese customer who was upset at her treatment by the employees at a restaurant. I have read your column for a few years now, buying the paper to read your advice as you usually come across as level headed and fair. Your comment that the hostess lacked “basic intelligence” is beyond the pail. I agree she was poorly trained, and lacked tact, maybe even common courtesy but I can not believe you would make such a nasty remark against someone you don’t even know. I don’t agree that the customer is always right, I prefer the more realistic saying ‘the customer is not always right, but they are always the customer’. Your advice on this situation is way off and displays an antiquated hierarchical view of society. This view you display, smacks of “Rankism”. You usually temper your advice by pointing out that you only have one side of the story, this time your comments seem subjective and malicious. I’m truly offended by your comment and extremely disappointed that someone I regarded so highly can be so downright mean. You have lost my respect and further more you have lost a reader. Shame on you, I certainly feel ashamed to ever consider my self a reader of your column. I will stick with Mrs. Manners from now on.

Yours truly,

A disappointed lost reader

--Posts merged--

I dont care if this is considered a "sucky letter" either, shes a bully as far as im concerned at least in this case, Im just calling her to task.

[Mr. Rager!]

I say let the customer figure it out for themselves that they can or cannot fit into the booth...

Also, I do find it very rude to point at someone's stomach because they're overweight. Of course, I might be the only one that thinks this... but I doubt it.

[BunnyJas]

Ok....my opinion isn't going to be very popular around here, but I think that the employee was sucky. It was rude to assume the woman was too fat for a booth, indicate this to her and doubley rude to actually point at her stomach to demonstrate this opinion. Let the customer figure out for herself if the booth is too small for her. The woman had every right to be angry and every right to complain to the management about the employee's lack of tact and professionalism. As for the employee's intelligence, I always thought that it was basic, common sense that indicating or "pointing out" a person is fat is very rude and will make that person upset.

Abby shouldn't have said that the old "The customer is always right" line, but I find it difficult to argue with anything else she said.

[Rapscallion]

I'm just curious about why the manager didn't crack down on the employee.

Perhaps he and she are mutual admirers.

Perhaps he has a spine and used it inappropriately.

Perhaps she's far too big to fit in there and missed mentioning a few dress sizes (anyone for SC time?).

In short, I have a few doubts about her version of the events. If she could have fit into the space, I would agree that it's a bad way to behave on the part of the server. If she was genuinely too big to fit, then there's no way to tell her gracefully, is there?

Rapscallion

[Kiwi]

to me, the letter is like something off PFB, and if true I have no doubt that the employee was rude, but it just comes across as too outrageous to be true.

however, someone in dear Abby's posistion should not be making personal remarks about someone when she only knows one side of the story.

[Broomjockey]

Ok....my opinion isn't going to be very popular around here, but I think that the employee was sucky.

Kiwi's not miffed about whether the employee was sucky or not, it's Abby's comments about the employee, and especially the "lacks basic intelligence," which is a brutally nasty thing to say when you've only got one biased side of the story.

I think the reply was way out of line. Abby's columns are usually a lot more mannered than that.

But I do agree that, with the letter as written, the employee appeared to have acted suckily. However, a lot of places have chairs with arms that would be even worse for an extremely overweight person to get in and out of. My mother used to look after someone who was incredibly overweight, and we had to sit in booths when we went out, even if he didn't fit properly, because the chairs were even worse.

[kibbles]

I'm sorry but I gotta agree with Dear Abby here. I don't agree with her saying that the customer is always right because just as an employee isn't always right, the customer isn't always right either.

But to insinuate that a customer is basically too fat to fit into a booth, well that employee lacks both common courtesy and intelligence. Dear Abby isn't being a bully at all IMO, this employee had it coming their way. If she would have left out the part of the customer always being right, then the letter would have been perfect IMO.

Kibbles

[Drakstern]

But to insinuate that a customer is basically too fat to fit into a booth, well that employee lacks both common courtesy and intelligence. Dear Abby isn't being a bully at all IMO, this employee had it coming their way. If she would have left out the part of the customer always being right, then the letter would have been perfect IMO.

I don't know, I think it was a bit too far to say that the employee lacked courtesy *and* intelligence. Yes, she was not courteous or tactful, but we really don't know what happened, only this one side.

Also, frankly, one can be very intelligent and entirely lack common sense, which is more of what I'd pin this problem on.

[One-Fang]

It all depends how you define intelligence. Many people, clearly Abby, link it with common sense. It's not very intelligent to draw attention to an obese customer's tummy.

On the other hand, the server may have been able to factor quadratic equations in her head. Or something. (I don't even know if "factor quadratic equations" is a mathematically correct statement). This would make her intelligent in a way that being socially dense doesn't give hint to.

I gotta agree with Abby, on many things, almost even the dreaded phrase. As dreaded as it is here, it's right in *some* situations. In matters of preference, where no rule is being broken, no harm done, nobody else put out, yes, the customer is always right. They want a blue bucket not a red one? They get a blue one. You don't tell them they can't have a blue one because you think it won't hold their sand*.

There is some basis for politely suggesting to a person who is making a bad decision that perhaps another option would suit them better, but in the end, in matters of preference, it is their decision.


* - Naturally, if the customer is asking about the best bucket to hold specific kinds of sand, you offer your advice.

[BunnyJas]

Kiwi's not miffed about whether the employee was sucky or not, it's Abby's comments about the employee, and especially the "lacks basic intelligence," which is a brutally nasty thing to say when you've only got one biased side of the story.

I realized that and I addressed it in my original post:

As for the employee's intelligence, I always thought that it was basic, common sense that indicating or "pointing out" a person is fat is very rude and will make that person upset.

On this forum, we often question an SC's intelligence if they make a mistake we consider common sense. We make this judgement based on what the OP has posted, which often is "one biased side of the story." This is the same thing except it is in reference to an employee. It is a fact that most people know that if you indicate to someone that they are fat it will make them angry. Therefore I don't believe Abby's comment was out of line.

[Broomjockey]

I have to tell you: common sense doesn't exist. Saying it's common sense to do something, means you were either brought up to do something in a specific fashion, the proper path is supposedly self-evident, or you were told at some point how to do something.

I think it's incredibly rude to insult the intelligence of someone you've never met, in a highly public, widely circulated manner.

Yes, we sometimes pass judgement on the SCs, but it's in our private corner of the world. Look closely, it's usually the really sucky ones, the ones actively misbehaving rather than the ones missing some piece of knowledge, that we really come down on. It's fun to marvel at the mistakes and assumptions that are paraded before us on a daily basis. It's good to have a place to vent about the crap we also have to take on a daily basis.

The server made a social faux pa, it's not like she said "You dumb f***, you'll never get your fat ass in a booth." She most likely was trying to avoid the scene that would inevitably taken place when the person didn't fit in the booth.

Again, I reiterate. The only information we have is an irate letter from an angry customer. With the information given, the server was sucky, and rude, but Abby was a JACKASS.

[Kiwi]

I still dont think the story sounds complete, it just sounds to fantastical for me. Its like PFB in a new form, the customers plays the total victim and the employee totally socially inept.

Could this happen in real life, sure its plasuible, but not likely in my opinion. Im not in any way disputing that if this is how the story played out that the employee was in the right at all. I just read it as untrue or exaggerated. Its Abbys comments about intelligence that upset me.

However on this subject I will say no more.

[Barefootgirl]

Just a pleasant reminder - let's keep this civil, people.

[Lace Neil Singer]

If she was genuinely too big to fit, then there's no way to tell her gracefully, is there?
This is the crux of the manner. What if the customer was actually far too big to fit, and the server told her this... and the customer took offense at that? There isn't really any nice way to tell an obese person that they are too big to fit in a small space, but who's to say that the server really was rude?

I once read in a magazine about a woman who started a diet the day she was told that she was far too fat to fit in a fairground ride. She was told this, but didn't take offence instead used it as a turning point. However, this customer obviously took a simple fact of life as a heinous insult and gave a biased version of events.

Just playing devil's advocate here by the way... I wonder, could any of you lot come up with a tactful way to tell a person that they're too obese to fit that would never give offence to anyone? O_o I couldn't do it.

[RavenStarr]

I think no matter how niceand tactful you could have been, people will still be offended. If I was in that waitress shoes I would go ahead and give them the booth. Then she could find out if she fit in there or not.

This thread reminds me of when my mom used to work at one of those stadiums. You know the ones that hold concerts, sporting events, and other things. One of her duties is to help people find their right seat. She has said that she has seen some very obese people that couldn't even fit in their seats. She never said anything to them, even though she knew they wouldn't fit. Most were pretty cool about it. There were a few of them that got mad at my Mom. They would start screaming at her, that they paid for their seats, and now what were they suppose to do.

Yep it was all my Moms fault they couldn't fit in their seat.:rolleyes:

[BunnyJas]

I would have just allowed the customer to figure this one out for herself. If she went to the booth and realized that she really couldn't fit, then it would be up to her if she wanted to make the issue discreet or a big deal.

I have to tell you: common sense doesn't exist. Saying it's common sense to do something, means you were either brought up to do something in a specific fashion, the proper path is supposedly self-evident, or you were told at some point how to do something.

Apparently we each have a different definition of common sense. To me it is knowledge that just about everyone knows (i.e. touching fire will burn you, look both ways before crossing the street, calling someone out on their pudginess will make them mad, etc.) You are right about Dear Abby being more public, but since both the employee and her place of work remained annonymous I don't see how the comment can do that much damage.

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

[Primer]

I once experienced just the opposite. I am a large person, and I know and freely admit it. I once had a waitress try to seat me in a spot where Twiggy would have had difficulties. I looked at the table and at the waitress in disbelief, and just laughed, "You're kidding me, right? There's no way I can fit there." She was a bit miffed that I refused to try to cram myself in there, but she did find me an alternative table.