Keeping Kosher?

[Kiwi]

Do we have anyone on the board that keeps kosher?

Im a big fan of literature either written by or about Jews and my current novel (about a Canadian born Jewish girl and her family during the depression) brought up some questions about the rules of keeping kosher.

If you would rather PM me or not, either way Im cool (even if my questions are a little stupid)

Ive done a could of hours search on Google, Wiki, and tried to find Jewish food forums but to no avail sadly.
Thanks guys and gals!

[KiaKat]

An ex-girlfriend of mine (still a very good friend) is a rabbinical student. She has followed the laws of Kashrut for most of her life, even more so now that she's in Jerusalem.

I might be able to answer some, if not all of your questions. She's Conservative, not Orthodox, so the adherance to the laws is a little different, but I live in a primarily Orthodox neighbourhood (mostly Hasid), so I'm certainly exposed to the concepts enough.

[digilight]

unlike Adam Sandler I'm not a jew...But have you tried searching on Orthodox Jewish Forums. I believe these are the folks that practice keeping kosher.

[Kiwi]

Its more of a "modern food" question

I know meat and dairy can not be mixed,the Torah tells us not to "boil a kid in its mother's milk." but is that all meat and all dairy or is it only if its from the same animal?

for instance I know you cant have a glass of milk and a steak in the same meal

but can you have a steak with goats cheese?

and what about faux diary products

like could you have a steak with soy or rice milk
can they have meat and soy cheese?

the latkes recipies sound so delishous, im totally going to try making some this weekend!

[KiaKat]

Anyone who is Judeo-Christian can keep Kosher. It's according to the laws laid out in Leviticus.

Edited to answer questions:

1. Because you can never be certain that any particular dairy or meat has actually come from the declared animal, and has not been adulterated (i.e. mixed goat's/sheep's milk), never mix any dairy with any meat. You must wait...argh. I don't remember if it's one or two hours between consuming meat and dairy, but it's one of those. I think it's two hours.

2. Soy and rice milk are not dairy. Therefore you can mix them. Often, people who keep Kosher will make pepperoni pizza by substituting either soy cheese or soy pepperoni. Also because Kosher cheese can be kinda icky - they don't use rennet to help separate the curds and whey, they have to use a vegetable alternative, so it's not quite as good, and often doesn't have the nice stringy meltyness that good Mozzarella has.

Latkes are delicious. Want to know why they're always considered Glatt (Meat)?

Because you always scrape your knuckles when grating the potatoes.

I hope that answered a few questions.

ETA: http://www.123cacher.com/en/kashrut/glossary.html for a glossary of terms, and the Wikipedia article on Kashrut is surprisingly thorough, if a bit lacking in proper terminology, and with a bit too much focus on the ethical aspects rather than the religious.

[SengaKitty]

I kept kosher for about seven years, so I know can probably answer your questions... Feel free to toss any out.

And if you want, I can get you an awesome recipe for beef straugenoff [spelling?] that's kosher :D

[KiaKat]

How did you get around the sour cream? The rest of it makes sense Kosher, but I'm having trouble figuring out how the sauce would have the same creaminess if one were to use a non-dairy substitute.

[SengaKitty]

KK, we used something Mom called tofuti... It's like sour cream made out of tofu, and you never know the difference...

We also made tacos using the soy crumbles for meat, and when Mom made the for my pre-bat mitzvah party, my grandfather, who was raised in New Mexico, to this day still believes it was real meat -giggle-

[KiaKat]

I love soy crumbles. LOVE THEM.

I didn't realize tofutti made faux sour cream. I'll have to look for it.

How strict were you? Did you keep separate fridges, or just separate dishes?

[SengaKitty]

We just had seperate dishes... Unfortunately we didn't have enough money for seperate everything, though when we lived in St Louis, we had friends who had seperate everything, stoves, ovens, fridges, etc etc etc

[KiaKat]

*nods*

We have a couple buildings near us that advertise 'Shabbos-ready lifts.' I've had to explain that concept to a couple family members. The whole separate fridges and dishwasher things *really* throw them.

I haven't kept Kosher, but I was vegetarian when I was dating my girlfriend who did, so I let her take over my kitchen and make it Kosher.

[Kiwi]

Thanks guys, I was just curious about it.

I dont know if I could ever go kosher myself but some of the food ive read about sounds tasty

I always love anything with potatos!

[XCashier]

1. Because you can never be certain that any particular dairy or meat has actually come from the declared animal, and has not been adulterated (i.e. mixed goat's/sheep's milk), never mix any dairy with any meat.
Does that include poultry or fish? (Yes, I know the question seems stupid, but I am curious if the "any meat" includes non-mammal meat.)

[ArcticChicken]

Does that include poultry or fish? (Yes, I know the question seems stupid, but I am curious if the "any meat" includes non-mammal meat.)

Any fish with both fins and scales is kosher, and is considered neutral. Most domestic birds are kosher, but they count as meat. Eggs are neutral.

I dont know if I could ever go kosher myself but some of the food ive read about sounds tasty

You don't have to keep kosher to eat the food.

A good reference book it Living a Jewish Life by Anita Diamant. Although it didn't tell me why the Mezuzah is placed at an angle, just that it is.

[Kiwi]

You don't have to keep kosher to eat the food.

oh I know that, im saying that I dont think I could obey such strict food laws

heck I couldnt even follow mormon food guidelines and they are no way nearly as strict!

[KiaKat]

A good reference book it Living a Jewish Life by Anita Diamant. Although it didn't tell me why the Mezuzah is placed at an angle, just that it is.

http://www.ujc.org/page.aspx?id=46680

Which brings us back to the real question: why aren't mezuzot hung straight?

One of the most famous French rabbis of the twelfth century was Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac, also known as Rashi. His grandson, Rabbenu Tam, felt that mezuzot should be affixed horizontally for the sake of tradition, because the scrolls in their leather cases were originally pushed horizontally into the crevices between the stones around the doorways of homes.

Rashi argued that mezuzot should be affixed vertically, in such a way that the top pointed toward the Almighty. They eventually compromised, and agreed that a mezuzah should be hung on the diagonal, with its top inclined toward the inside. The decision, allowing peace to rein in a Jewish home in twelfth century France, is part of the message of the mezuzah.

Quoted because they said it better than I could. I'm not good at remembering that story.

There's no religious reason, just one meant to keep the peace. Which is pretty typical of most traditions.

[XCashier]

Any fish with both fins and scales is kosher, and is considered neutral. Most domestic birds are kosher, but they count as meat. Eggs are neutral.
So you can eat dairy with fish or eggs, but not poultry?

[KiaKat]

Yup. It goes back to that whole concept of being careful not to consume something that *might* be Treifah (not Kosher).

Look at it this way. Currently the most common (and easiest) form of vegetarianism is to exclude meat and poultry, but eat fish, eggs, and dairy. This is also the easiest form of vegetarianism for Jews to follow, as it means they don't need separate dishes, dishwashers, sinks, and fridges for their kitchen.

Anything that is not either strictly meat (Fleishig or Glatt) or Dairy (Milchig), but IS Kosher under the laws of Kashruth, is considered Parve, and can be consumed with items of either of the other two categories.

Anything that is not Hechsher (has been declared Kosher under Rabbinical supervision), is considered Treifah, and may not be consumed by one keeping Kosher, under normal circumstances. My ex generally didn't worry about that when we were eating out, as it's very difficult to find Kosher restaurants in Manhattan that offer interesting foods, like sushi. She just avoided meat.

There are more rules beyond that, especially as concerns Passover, grains in general, and wine, but that's a brief overview.

[Jester]

I am Jewish (by descent and blood, not by practice), and absolutely do NOT keep kosher. That being said, I have many relatives who very much do, some to the point of keeping separate fridges and pantries. When in their homes, I respect their kosher laws, but if we are out and about at neutral restaurants, I'll order a bacon cheeseburger and they won't really have an issue with it.

Some people keep more kosher than others, though. I have one cousin who, when he and his wife are traveling, will bring their own food, as they will almost never eat in a non-kosher restaurant, which are not always easy to find. And they are so strict that they won't eat most cheeses, as many of them are apparently cured in animal stomach lining, or some such.

Another cousin had for their wedding meal a kosher and vegetarian menu, which at first doesn't sound all that good, but in reality was mostly delightful, especially the main course of wild mushroom ravioli. (Except for my little sister, who despises mushrooms. :lol: )

Most of the basics have been answered here, and having never been kosher myself, nor had any desire to be (I love shellfish and bacon too damn much!), I doubt I could shed much more light on it, but I would recommend that if you really want to know more about it, simply go talk to your local rabbi. If anyone is going to know a thing or two about kosher laws, it's going to be him! :lol: (And most of them are really friendly, too.....I can only remember meeting one or two that were really anal in personality.)

Good luck! And L'chaim!

[AdminAssistant]

I'll second what Jester said about speaking to a rabbi.

A little story: One of my professors studies/teaches how ritual/religion affects performance and theatre and such. He also happens to be Jewish, and his personal research focuses on Jewish and Yiddish culture. He's told us that if we're ever curious about it, that his synagogue is very open to observers and that his rabbi is always willing to answer any questions. I think it would be really interesting - such an old and tradition-laden culture.

Just my $0.02.

Just as a side note - I usually give up something for Lent, even though I'm not Catholic. I just think it's a good exercise to occasionally go without something for a little while - in the past I've given up alcohol, pizza, and soda. I'll probably do alcohol again this year, good for the liver to go on the wagon for a bit.

[Rapscallion]

And they are so strict that they won't eat most cheeses, as many of them are apparently cured in animal stomach lining, or some such.

The real story is that cheese requires something called 'rennet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet)' to curdle the milk. Traditionally, this came from the stomach lining of an animal. However, there are plenty of cheeses on the market that use a vegetarian rennet.

Rapscallion

[KiaKat]

Most of the Kosher cheeses on the market (the milk has to be harvested in a certain way in order to be considered Kosher) are terrible, however. I'm not sure why.

There is one pizza 'chain' (I know of two definite locations) in Manhattan, called Viva, which has fantastic Kosher/vegetarian pizza. Their cheese is actually good. My ex was astounded when she found it. Our first (and only) apartment was near one, and we were in love with it. Great pizza, terrific soup, and rosemary foccacia to die for.

Hmm. I think I need to go hunt it out again. I miss that pizza. Cornmeal crust, great veggies, and delicious goat cheese. I've *never* had goat cheese that tasted quite that good.