Attention Canada! I would like to defect!

[dispatch]

So I was talking to my dear darling this week about life, the universe, and everything. During the course of said conversation we got to talking about the wanderlust and how there's ever-so-many places to go and things to do. We found out through the course of this that we both have an interest in traveling if not moving abroad, specifically to Canada. Then today I'm talking to an old friend about travel and road trips we've taken and he brought up the idea of going to Canada. I mentioned that my girlfriend and I would like visit and possibly live there and, well, now we're all curious about the land of hockey, maple syrup and Tim Horton's. How is the job market? would we need to learn french (I think all 3 of us have a desire to learn another language)? does it come with a CD player? how is the rent? do French Canadians have rabies :lol: ? how does customs feel about cats? is there an underground railroad for kittehs? are Americans well received?
Lots of questions, I know, but I think I've inspired an exploratory expedition. Any feedback would be helpful and appreciated, and I promise that I and the members of my party are all housebroken, vaccinated, licensed, and social.

[hinakiba777]

I'm not sure about the cat. I'm sure if you intend to move you just need to get some paperwork.

You don't NEED to learn French. There's only one French Province (Quebec) and one bilingual province (New Brunswick). Many other provinces have French and Acadian communities, but it's not insanely prominent. Then again it helps. Also, Cape Breton Island has it's road signs in Gaelic.

As for jobs, um.... Depends on what you want to come here for. Many people in certain fields are at retiring age, and then again some fields are downsizing.

However I can only speak for Atlantic Canada. A place who didn't really care about the recession because we've been living that way since before i was born.

[Gravekeeper]

Vancouver was recently declared the easiest city to live in (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090608/canada/lifestyle_world_health_environment_cities), in the world.

For reference, no American city appears on the list till #30. -.-

So yeah, I live in Awesome Town.

[smileyeagle1021]

For reference, no American city appears on the list till #30. -.-


thus proving my point that I really should live in either Canada or Europe... I wonder where Berlin fell on that list :)

[draggar]

From the article:

Berlin in 22nd.

:)

[InSearchOfSunset]

How is the job market? would we need to learn french (I think all 3 of us have a desire to learn another language)? does it come with a CD player? how is the rent? do French Canadians have rabies ? how does customs feel about cats? is there an underground railroad for kittehs? are Americans well received?


Like everyone else said, for jobs it depends what you want to do. Also where you live. The you have to think.. hmm do you I want to live in a wet environment (talk to gravekeeper on that one lol) or a semi arid desert(me), oddly enough not that far from gravekeeper. . then there's the prairies and the flatlands up north, the cold tundra even more north, ugh Ontario. . and let us not forget- "the centre of the centre of the universe" known as Toronto. Hated by all west of the city. Rent varies from place to place, my city is stupidly high, next city over is fairly low *go figure:rolleyes:* Cats are well loved here! But the most important thing would be that if you do not like hockey. . . do NOT EVER admit to that ! EVER!!!

[Jester]

For reference, no American city appears on the list till #30.[/B]

I expended much Google Fu trying to find the full list so I could see where various cities ranked. No matter what I did, though, I was unable to find the full list. Anyone know where it is?

[the_std]

Knowing French makes it easier for you to get government jobs and the like (you HAVE to be bilingual if you get any kind of job dealing with the public), which have more stability and pay pretty highly. Bumfudge, The Middle Of Nowhere (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan) has been rated the fastest-growing economy is Canada, if not North America. We have jobs popping up like zombies all up in here. Unfortunately, rent matches at $800-$1000 a month being pretty standard. Saskatoon also prides itself on being "the small town with the big city feel". We are the largest city in Saskatchewan at 250,000. We get cold cold winters and hot hot summers. Saskatchewan also has one of the largest percentages of water mass to land mass out of any of the provinces, lakes ABOUND, and therefore partying in the summertime is exponentially easier.

Anyways, I can't say much about Eastern Canada, having not spent much time past Saskatchewan, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are pretty easy to relocate to.

[Jester]

Std, the question is, would an American emigrating to Canada have much of a chance of getting a government job off the bat anyway, whether or not they are bilingual? Just a thought.

[gremcint]

You definitly don't need to know french. I have lived in Canada for 24 years and the only time I've ever needed french was during french class at scool.

[the_std]

It's actually very possible. I was talking about positions like receptionist and things like that. Nothing hard-core.

[Ree]

...the cold tundra even more north, ugh Ontario. . and let us not forget- "the centre of the centre of the universe" known as Toronto. Hated by all west of the city.
That's a bit of a generalization. I actually love Toronto, and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

Oh, and I hope that was a typo on the "ugh Ontario", because I also happen to love my home province as well.

Let's keep the fratching type comments out of this thread, thanks. ;)

[Jester]

That's a bit of a generalization. I actually love Toronto, and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

As a disinterested American who has never been to Canuckistan, I can tell you that most of the people I speak to, Canadian, American, and otherwise, who have been to Toronto speak very highly of it. Other than this website, I have almost never heard a bad thing about Toronto, to be honest. Ditto Vancouver.

[AdminAssistant]

I've heard Toronto is kinda like NYC without the drugs and violence (hence why a lot of American films and TV shows set in NYC are filmed in Toronto).

While I don't know of it's usefulness, I will say that French is a pretty cool (albeit frustrating) language to learn, so go ahead and do it anyway! You'll have the added bonus of getting more Eddie Izzard jokes. :D ("Et le singe est sur la branche!" "Le singe? Ou est le singe?")

[hinakiba777]

Toronto is a really great place. I haven't been West of Ontario yet, but for a really long time i had never been out of the Atlantic province.

Forget the Atlantic provinces at your own peril. ;)

Anyway, I love Toronto. It's really nice. I know some people who think they are the center of the universe because they are Toronto born, but I can say that about people I know from lots of places.

[fumblebee]

That's a bit of a generalization. I actually love Toronto, and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

Oh, and I hope that was a typo on the "ugh Ontario", because I also happen to love my home province as well.



Thank you! As someone living in Toronto, I really hate when people slag off this city. I mean, I understand why people might dislike us but it's not fair to lump all of us in with the crazies. Plus it's not my fault if the news channels discuss Toronto things, I have no control over the CBC or CTV etc.

There is so much to love about this city. The multiculturalism, the food that stems from that (mmmm Shwarma!) music, nightlife, culture, friendly people (yes, there really ARE friendly folk in the city!)

There are plenty of job opportunities, depending on the line of work. Rent here is varied. It depends on whether you want to live in the heart of downtown, or out in the suburbs or outside of Toronto altogether and into the 905 (Peel, Durham, York regions)

[Gravekeeper]

T
There is so much to love about this city. The multiculturalism, the food that stems from that (mmmm Shwarma!) music, nightlife, culture, friendly people (yes, there really ARE friendly folk in the city!)


That's pretty much any Canadian city save maybe Charlottetown. -.-

But honestly, Vancouver is nice aesthetically ( Shitloads more trees ) and the transit is better. Plus you can hop public transit straight to a ski hill. It also feels less crowded and "city" like than Toronto as the population is much lower.

Gimme trees, thanks. Vancouver has an absurd about of trees plus mountains in the background. -.-

Edit: Oh, right, and Ontario is DEATH is the summer. DEATH. By humidity. Dear god. ><

[hinakiba777]

Just to be random,

Do you know if you look up urban sprawl on wikipedia you get a picture of Calgary?! Weird.

I really hope I can make it to Vancouver one day. Then I can literally have gone from Coast to Coast. Atlantic to Pacific. CB to BC.

[Jester]

I know some people who think they are the center of the universe because they are Toronto born, but I can say that about people I know from lots of places.

New York.
Boston.
Philadelphia.
Chicago.
Los Angeles.
Miami.
Dallas.
Detroit.
Cleveland.

That's been my experience, anyways.

[Rapscallion]

That big syringe-thing - the CN tower. On two separate occasions I've wet myself on the glass floor in the lower observation deck.

Not the sort of thing I'd recommend, but at least I can say I've done it.

Rapscallion

[Ree]

As I have already pointed out (http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?p=576039#post576039), but seem to have been ignored, this thread is about ALL things Canadian, and NOT about which Canadian city is better.

The OP asked for advice about CANADA which means, dispatch wants to know about life in Canada in general.

A back and forth debate about Toronto vs Vancouver (or any other city), no matter how friendly and joking it may be, is not exactly helpful to him, nor does it really answer any of his questions.

[I don't work here]

OK.. I am an immigrant to Ontario from Newfoundland... I've been to BC, and I can say without any bias at all that Canada rocks!!

East Coast - Absolutley STUNNING... there are places where you can walk and know that no other human has EVER walked here. Very laidback and easy going, and St John's (NL - not the Saint JOhn NB) ROCKS for nightlife - George Street is nothing but bars). Plus you get the Big City Living with the small town feel. Employment - well I am not too sure about the maritimes, but Newfoundland is starting to go outside the province for workers...

Quebec - a world onto itself....You don't need to know French - in my experience, you are better off not opening your mouth if you don't speak it.

Ontario - Again the best of both worlds. I live in the 905, and have the privilige of driving 30 mins to soo many different cultures. You get big city, plus small town all within an hours drive...

An as for the rest of Canada,, well I stopped at T.O. ;) LOL.. I was in BC when I was 10 and I really don't remember it. Never been to AB, SK of M (?)manitoba

Enjoy Canada :)

[monolayth]

I think gravekeeper and anyone who reads his posts can agree. Stay away from Nunavat.

as for moving to canada i know smoking is way expensive there, I know you wanted to quit but dont remember if you have accheived that goal.

[Spiffy McMoron]

Just to be random,

Do you know if you look up urban sprawl on wikipedia you get a picture of Calgary?! Weird.

Not if you've driven through there from north to south. It's crazy-long. :p

As for your questions...

How is the job market?

Speaking of where I'm from, it has cooled considerably, but is picking back up a bit. Projects that were on hold are starting back up again, and things are stabilizing, which is a very good thing.

would we need to learn french (I think all 3 of us have a desire to learn another language)?

Don't let me stop you from learning another language, but unless you're living in Quebec or New Brunswick, it's hardly necessary. In all honesty, learning an Asian language (Mandarin, Cantonese, Punjabi, Hindi, Korean, etc) would help your job prospects almost as much as French, although I imagine French would be easier to learn.

does it come with a CD player?

No, but the welcoming gift basket contains some lovely scented oils.

how is the rent?

As has been mentioned earlier, it depends on where you live and what kind of housing you want. Houses are more expensive than townhouses, which are in turn more expensive than apartments, which are more expensive than the Dumpster behind 7-11.

do French Canadians have rabies :lol: ?

Yes, but it's OK. I've had my shots.

how does customs feel about cats?

I don't know, but I recommend have all of your papers up-to-date.

is there an underground railroad for kittehs?

There was, until the reflection of the lights on the roof caused all of the cats to jump up at once. The force of the cats landing knocked the train off the tracks and ruined the line.

are Americans well received?

Not if you keep forgetting to add the "u" to humour and colour. :p All joking aside, we feel that Americans--as individuals--are wonderful, smart, and good-natured people who will willingly listen to us bitch about all of the problems in America. :lol:

Hope that helps!

[Jester]

there are places where you can walk and know that no other human has EVER walked here.

You realize, of course, that for centuries various humans have walked there, content in the knowledge that no other human has ever walked there. You DO know this, right? :lol:

Employment - well I am not too sure about the maritimes, but Newfoundland is starting to go outside the province for workers...

Okay, I know I am an ignorant American, but isn't Newfoundland ONE of the Maritimes? As I recall from grade school, the Maritime Provinces were Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. (And no, I did not just google or wikipedia that....that is straight out of my noggin.)

[ditchdj]

I think both countries have their pros and cons. What I'd do is do research and make out a pro/con list for each country and then use that as a basis to decide if you want to move there for sure. Of course it all comes down to if you can feel it right there in your heart if Canada's for you. I know that when I studied in Spain I did NOT feel it there whatsoever and knew that I could likely never move out of the US.

[Gravekeeper]

Right, ok, point by point than:


Job Market:

Seems to be leveling out. Though I didn't notice too much of a dip locally. I don't think "urban" sort of jobs ( Retail, call centres, software dev, financial institutes etc ) were affected too badly. Though industrial jobs took some hits.

Our hiring didn't really dip any at all to be frank. Though call centre jobs have higher turn over, and we have occasional short term contract clients, so we hire fairly regularly anyhow.


Cats:

Have all the papers. Other than I can't see there being any problem.


French:

No. As Spiffy said, unless you're in Quebec or mayhaps New Brunswick plain ol' English will get you by.

He's right though. East Asian languages can be helpful in some spots. Mandarin or Cantonese is helpful around Vancouver for example as you might be able to get a job at a few places you normally wouldn't have much of a shot at. But is in no way required to land a job. Businesses that are East Asian language beased are not mainstream, they're catering to a specific local community around them.

At my company straight up English would be all you need for example. Non-English accounts or lines are handled by other offices. Our Toronto ( Yar! ) and Montreal offices handle most the French stuff for example. But we would handle anything in Mandarin or Cantonese if required ( and have once or twice in the past. ). But its been rare and when it happens we hire short term agents specifically for it.


Rent:

Not too bad. Cost of living here seems lower ( Especially far west or far east ) than most other countries I've talked to people in. As long as you don't want to live right down town in the middle of a city in a penthouse its not bad. I pay $600 for a 1 cozy bedroom here for example. With a security system, under floor heating and all utilities included.

Er, $528 US. -.-



Americans:

Long as you don't have a Bush bumper sticker or ask us where the dog sleds are no worries. In all honesty ( and no offense to Americans ) the American stereotypes we have up here that can annoy us quick basically boil down to: Ignorance and Arrogance.

But yes, you have to realize that our far right is basically still left of your left. However, we are unfailingly polite. Act likewise and you will be welcomed with opened arms and warm Timbits.

[Gravekeeper]

Okay, I know I am an ignorant American, but isn't Newfoundland ONE of the Maritimes? As I recall from grade school, the Maritime Provinces were Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island.

No, no its not oddly enough.

<--- from Prince Edward Island, actually.

[Spiffy McMoron]

Okay, I know I am an ignorant American, but isn't Newfoundland ONE of the Maritimes? As I recall from grade school, the Maritime Provinces were Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island.

Aah, yes and no.

Newfoundland and Labrador are a part of Atlantic Canada, but not the Maritimes. Essentially, this is because Newfoundland joined Canada later than NB, NS, and PEI. (1949 as opposed to 1867, 1867, and 1873, respectively.) The term Maritime Provinces came to be associated with just Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island, and when Newfoundland came to the party, the term "Atlantic Provinces" were coined to include the four provinces.

Nowadays, though, if you use the term Maritime provinces, people generally include Newfoundland into the mix.

[Jester]

However, we are unfailingly polite.

Then how do you explain Corey Haim?

No, no its not oddly enough.

So my school LIED to me!

Why am I not shocked?

...when Newfoundland came to the party, the term "Atlantic Provinces" were coined to include the four provinces.

Nowadays, though, if you use the term Maritime provinces, people generally include Newfoundland into the mix.

So I'm confused now. Did my school lie to me or not? It's important to know for firebomb targeting procedures my ease of mind.

[Gravekeeper]

Then how do you explain Corey Haim?


Douchebag gene.

[Jester]

Touche, GK. Touche.

[Spiffy McMoron]

So I'm confused now. Did my school lie to me or not? It's important to know for firebomb targeting procedures my ease of mind.

Yes. Your school was full of lying liars. Have fun...uh..."easing your mind". :lol:

[dispatch]

I know it's been a few days, but I have to say; Awesome, awesome, and more awesome! Obviously we're going to visit and such before making any commitment, but the more I hear the more I'm intrigued. The fact that Fox News and my father speak ill of you, means you must be doing something right :lol: so I think I'll be planning my journey to the north as soon as I can get my finances under control and start saving again.

One of my main gripes about Omaha is a complete lack of mass transit, and GK I've heard you speak well of Vancouver for that before. I do like hockey, though I skate like a drunken elk.

I'm very sorry to hear about your kitteh railroad getting destroyed, please let me know if I can assist in the relief efforts.

So, where am I going on my exploratory journey? Do I need to present myself to the Prime Minister like in vampire? do I get bonus points for being named an honorary Canadian in 2005? Why is there pineapple in my cat's water dish?

[the_std]

One of my main gripes about Omaha is a complete lack of mass transit, and GK I've heard you speak well of Vancouver for that before. I do like hockey, though I skate like a drunken elk.

:roll:

I am amazed that, having lived in a place where both elk and booze flow readily through the streets, I have never seen this before. But I am now going to keep my eyes opening for any tipsy ungulates.

[Gravekeeper]

One of my main gripes about Omaha is a complete lack of mass transit, and GK I've heard you speak well of Vancouver for that before. I do like hockey, though I skate like a drunken elk.


Our hockey rink/arena, GM Place, is connected directly to the Skytrain line. It almost pulls up to the front door. >.>

[Jester]

I do like hockey, though I skate like a drunken elk.

And that is why you WATCH the hockey, my friend!

Why is there pineapple in my cat's water dish?

Some say it's the Hawaiian Conspiracy. Pay it no mind.

Our hockey rink/arena, GM Place, is connected directly to the Skytrain line. It almost pulls up to the front door.

That is too damn cool. While Phoenix is not known for its mass transit, they do have a new light rail, which we took to the Diamondbacks game when I was there. While it doesn't pull right up to the stadium, it IS only a block or so away, which is very freakin' cool for Diamondbacks or Suns games (the Suns play right next to the Diamondbacks, pretty much).

Maybe one day they'll have the light rail go all the way out west to where the Cardinals and Coyotes play. Until then, expect to hear more of the Coyotes financial woes, since they built their new arena in an area inhabited mostly by old people and boring families, on the other side of town from most of the vibrant people who would otherwise attend the games, and in a place known for....well, pretty much nothing. (The Cardinals can get away with it since they only have 8 home games a year, not 36. And it's, you know, football.)

[Kiwi]

I am currently in the process of immigrating to Canada so I can give you an outsiders perspective on the inside.

My only advice as a current immigrant is .... live near the border and get your passport in order.

I have not personally been east, but from what Im told the west coast is a much more laid back than the east coast.

And trust me get a lawyer if your serious, the application is a nightmare (we are in our 7th month with at least another year to go) just for permanent residency. We had had to pay about 6 grand in total (3 grand lawyers fees and the other 3 grand government fees, couriers, medical tests and official documents). The Canadian immigration department does NOT mess around.

Oh and the immigration laws changed a little while back, so ignore most people who tell you to "just marry a Canadian" that does NOT make it easier. In fact ignore anyone who gives you immigration advice (pertaining to immigration laws, not culture or life in Canada of course) if they have not personally immigrated because the laws HAVE changed and most of the stuff they will tell you is outdated. I have spent the last year listening to people tell me "oh you can just do this, or just do that" and they are wrong 99.9% of the time because the laws are different now! PM me if you are serious and I will help you all I can :)

[Jester]

Kiwi, as painful as that sounds, trust me when I tell you that that is a walk in the park compared to American immigration laws.

"But Jester, you ARE an American."

Yes. Yes I am. But I WAS engaged to a Brit, my friends. AND I have an Estonian roommate. (And used to have a Czech roommate as well.) Etc., etc.

[Kiwi]

Kiwi, as painful as that sounds, trust me when I tell you that that is a walk in the park compared to American immigration laws.

Actually the changes brought the Canadian immigration laws into alignment with the USA ones....

they are practically identical now, the new laws are practical copies of American immigration laws and categories. Which is a real bitch for me!

if I had done this 3 years ago I would have gone through under the old system and would be done already.

[Jester]

Actually the changes brought the Canadian immigration laws into alignment with the USA ones....

they are practically identical now, the new laws are practical copies of American immigration laws and categories.

we are in our 7th month with at least another year to go

We had had to pay about 6 grand in total

Identical? And yet that is all the time and money you are talking about?

Kiwi, I'm sorry, but having known many immigrants to the U.S. and the utter HELL they have gone through, and having had one of my oldest friends in the world work for Immigration, I can tell you that, based on your numbers, Canada is still a walk in the park compared to the U.S.

No, this is not a pissing contest (I am not trying to make it one), I am just saying immigrating to the U.S. is tougher than most countries and tougher than most people realize unless they've done it or are closely associated with someone who has. My sister moved to the U.K. after marrying her British husband, and she has had it very easy getting residency and then citizenship than he would have had if they had decided to live in the U.S.

Now, back to advice for the would-be Canadians: Rush and Alanis Morissette are gods, Michael Myers is extremely funny, and up there, they have REAL beer! :cheers:

[iradney]

Once TTO and I are married, we will be inflicting our presence on Canada, hopefully permanently.
I think it'll help somewhat that my aunt and uncle are residents there, and my parents are currently living there as well. Whatever hoops we have to jump through, we will do so willingly.
I've heard great things about Canada - my family loves it there, and I visited there in 2004 as well - loved it.

[hinakiba777]

My cousin got married to a lovely young man from Oregan. This was about two years ago. They are still both having a horrible time trying to get visas, green cards, citizenships, etc. What really sucks is that my cousin is supposed to be going to grad school in the states, but the red tape is stopping her.

I'm not even sure they can live together at the moment. I really should talk to them again.

[Kiwi]

Identical? And yet that is all the time and money you are talking about?

sorry Jester, I'll inform my immigration lawyer that apparently he doesn't know what he's talking about ;)

As I said to the people who are thinking about immigrating, if you want to PM me I can direct you to some good websites that can give you some help about the different categories you can immigrate under.

They have a "test" set up to see if you qualify to immigrate under each category on a points system. It helps narrow the route you take down and give you a head start on what to "improve on" before you apply.

The category you decide to use can make a world of difference.

[Broomjockey]

Now, back to advice for the would-be Canadians: Rush and Alanis MorissetteBarenaked Ladies are gods, Michael MyersKids in the Hall is extremely funny, and up there, they have REAL beer! :cheers:

Fixed that for you.