I think I'm at a serious crossroads here (long)

[dendawg]

I think I'm at a serious relationship crossroad here.

You guys may or may not remember my thread about my wife having a heart attack. (http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=40130) What I didn't say then is that we had a brief argument about whether or not she really was, as I didn't recognize the symptoms.

Unfortunately since then, things have taken a turn for the worse, IMHO. I feel that I've lost a lot of intimacy from her, and that she only tolerates my presence at home. I feel that the things I do at home are not good enough for her. She expects me to keep saying positive, supportive things about her, and yet I feel I hardly get the same in return.

A couple of months ago, she told me that she, a friend of hers here and her mother were going to Missouri to visit an old friend of hers, and said she didn't want me to go, because I couldn't contribute anything, money-wise. :eek: :cry: (Like devoting nearly 2/3 of my income to the car payment isn't enough? :rolleyes:) I was extremely hurt, to make an understatement.

It was then that I found myself talking to another woman on a chat program. One thing led to another, and, bottom line, she made me feel good about myself again, and we have fallen hard for each other. I know, some of you are gonna think I'm a dog for doing this, but I honestly didn't expect something like this to happen.

And then the shit hit the fan....

This past Tuesday, wife asked me who I was chatting with. I told her it was a friend (which is the truth, as far as it goes.), that I would cut off communications with her. :cry: Then last night, I hear from my online friend's (for lack of a better word) sister, that she was in the hospital. I know I shouldn't but I felt extremely guilty.

My dilemma is thus: I want more than anything to be with this other woman, but also to be with my wife. I seriously need to figure out who it is I really want. Any advice that can be offered is welcome.

A very confused
Dendawg

P.S. No cautionary tales about online dating please. That kind of debate is better suited for fratching, IMHO, and is beside the point of what I'm going thru here.

[blas]

I'm confused....is your wife in the hospital again, or the other woman?

I'm against cheating, and I do not excuse it, but at the same time, I understand the casual forms of flirting or hanging around someone new.

*again, please don't read me wrong...I do NOT excuse it*

I think sometimes when we feel we aren't getting what we want (even if we communicate it or not) we magically find it in another person. It's just so convenient. And it will always seem like the other person will make you happy and offer you more than who you're currently with.

Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

I think the best thing to do is be honest. Tell your wife what's been happening. Tell her WHY you started talking/flirting/having a secret relationship with this woman. Obviously you are lacking something in the relationship that this other woman seems to offer.

Will your wife be pissed? Certainly. But if you two are able to talk things out, maybe things will work out, and you can forget about your little crush on the side.

[strawbabies]

Has your wife seen a mental health specialist? She may be having some strange emotional responses because of the heart attack.

A friend of the family had a heart attack a couple of years ago, and developed a really short temper as a result. I don't know if it's subsided.

In short, your wife's heart attack may have made her a different person. It's up to the two of you to decide if you want to stay together, but don't do it half-assed, and don't you stay in the marriage if all you feel for her her is a sense of obligation. Nobody will ever be happy that way.

If you want to split from your wife, that's what you need to do. But give yourself some time before you jump into a new relationship.

[Plaidman]

I'm not sure who you want to be with. Thats up to you. Whoever your with, that's your choice. Love is a fickle thing, it can take you, and destroy youi. But it seems you love more then like then this 'online' relateshinsip. Be honest to your wife. Wife is a loveable term. But it can easily be destroyed. Do whats in your heart. that's all I can suggest.

[Taboo]

I seriously need to figure out who it is I really want.

First of all, no, that's not your biggest problem.

Regardless of how great this other woman is and regardless of whether she would be a better fit for you or not, the problems in your marriage are pretty serious right now. You're married to your wife and have made that commitment - I think you owe it to yourself and to her to put a SERIOUS effort into solving the marriage first. This means sitting down and talking to her, and I would recommend doing it with a therapist who can intervene. It sounds like, while what you're doing is morally questionable, your wife is also not squeaky clean and she is being incredibly hurtful with that sort of behavior. It may take a trip to a marriage counselor for her to realize just how upset you are about it.

And notice that I said SOLVING, not fixing. Is it fixable right now? Well, since you still seem to love your wife, maybe it is. But for it to be possible, you have to both be willing to work on things. If you are not both willing, or if you both decide it's better to just move on, then you talk about divorce or other options.

I think the other woman, as lovely as she may be, should not be a consideration right now as far as a "should I pick A or B" situation. Get on the track of getting some resolution with your wife first, whether it means fixing your marriage or getting divorced. You're going to have a 'the grass is greener' type outlook on this other woman right now with all that's going wrong in your marriage. Maybe she is a better fit - but maybe she's not and you just see her that way because you really don't want to be in the situation you're in. You're not in a position to make a decision about this other woman when you're not able to be more objective, imho.

As a side note, I might suggest writing an email to Dan Savage. He's a sex advice and relationship advice columnist and he's not outrightedly against affairs (though he believes in exploring all other options first) and so he might be able to give you some decent advice.

[BarbieGirl]

I've seen family members go through similar situations some with good outcomes and the new relationship is great, others with not so good outcomes. So I'll just say this 'If they'll cheat with you, they are more likely to cheat on you'

[Soulstealer]

Have you talked to your wife about the recent change between you two and considered couple's counseling?

[Binky]

Talk to your wife. You chose to be with her for a reason, and that reason is still there..you love her.

You're at a stage where you are having a hard time, it happens to everyone. Couples councelling is something I think you should honestly look into. Also some councelling for your self as it might give you a few tools to help deal with what's happening.

Cheating/finding another person is not always the answer. As my mother always says to me "the grass is not always greener on the other side". I'm sure when you first met your wife you had the same feelings you're having about this new woman. How do you know that the same issues won't come up if you end up with her? You don't. Best to just keep it as friends, honestly.

As Strawbabies said, she could have changed because of the heart attack. You need to be there for her. I know it's hurtful what she says, and that's something you need to talk o her about and not let it stay bottled up.

Honesty is always something you need to have in a marraige. Trust me their not always a bed of roses, and I sure as hell should know that! Man the issues me and my husband have!

[Pedersen]

I've done the internet love affair relationship. I've seen it damage my relationships, and I've seen it damage the relationships of friends and relatives. It's extremely easy to get into such a relationship, and it's extremely easy to believe that each of you are being open and honest and all the things that you need to be in order for a relationship to grow.

99% of the time, though, you're not. And you don't even know you're not. Stop and think about it before you lay into me: How rapidly can you type? For most people, this is significantly slower than they can speak. So, if you spend 8 hours per day every single day chatting with this woman via IM, you're likely saying as much in those 8 hours as you could communicate in less than four hours via voice.

And then comes the non-verbal stuff. You describe your mood, but you can't show it. And if you want to hide it, you can do so easily. She is unable to see any more than you allow her to see. Do you actually let her see the awful stuff, the stuff that you're ashamed of about yourself? And she can do the same.

It's not that it's a conscious hiding of yourself, it's simply trying to be the best person possible around someone else. However, since there is no bad (or, at least, only very limited bad), the feelings become more intense. You've found someone who appears to be perfect. You have to be better for her, and so hide the worst parts of yourself away. She feels the same, and does the same. With every passing day, the two of you are more perfect for each other than the day before.

And, of course, the people around you pale in comparison. They don't know what you've found, they don't understand. They don't know her, and you do.

I've been through all of that, personally, from multiple viewpoints, multiple times.

As I said, 99% of the time (actually, I think it's 100% of the time, but will allow that there is a non-zero percentage of the time where I'm wrong), it's all based on a lie, and it's one that neither side realizes that they are telling.

Do yourself a favor, please: Stop thinking about the woman online. Don't even allow yourself to be a friend for now, because that will lead you back to your stronger feelings all too easily. You need to focus on your wife, and resolving the issues in that relationship (or ending that relationship if they are unresolvable). That must be first.

Anything else, and you are being dishonest with your wife and dishonest with the other woman. And that's not fair at all to anybody.

[tropicsgoddess]

As I said, 99% of the time (actually, I think it's 100% of the time, but will allow that there is a non-zero percentage of the time where I'm wrong), it's all based on a lie, and it's one that neither side realizes that they are telling.

Do yourself a favor, please: Stop thinking about the woman online. Don't even allow yourself to be a friend for now, because that will lead you back to your stronger feelings all too easily. You need to focus on your wife, and resolving the issues in that relationship (or ending that relationship if they are unresolvable). That must be first.

Anything else, and you are being dishonest with your wife and dishonest with the other woman. And that's not fair at all to anybody.

I agree completely with Pederson on this one. It's not right and it's not fair to hide the other woman and the wife from each other, online or not. Think about what made you love and choose to commit to your wife. Have a heart to heart or go through marriage counseling together to see what's the problem. We all go through rough patches in relationships, but that doesn't mean we should go to another man/woman for that!

[NightWatch]

I have a male friend who did something similar. He was married for something like 20 years and his wife just seemed to lose interest in him. She stopped doing the kind thoughtful things she used to and seemed to brush him aside. He went the affair route also, never stopping to speak with his wife. He felt unloved and sought it elsewhere. This all blew up in his face when his girlfriend showed up at his wife's house and showed her every single love letter he ever wrote to the gf. It ended in divorce and he had a very hard time with learning how to date and cope with the loneliness. His gf dumped him when the wife did, so he got nothing from that affair.

So in case you haven't really thought about where your affair is leading you, there's a possible outcome for you.

[mandaliz8704]

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

I did something similar a few years ago, and ended up leaving my fiance (we are back together now) for another guy. This was someone that I worked with. He made me feel special, paid attention to me, at the time he was everything to me that my fiance wasn't.

It lasted 3 months. Total.

The funny thing is, he *was* everything my fiance wasn't. He was overbearing, emotionally needy, clingy, desperate, and a complete follower. It was always "Whatever YOU want, honey... what do YOU think... etc. It was never about what he wanted or needed, and that drove me nuts. I couldn't even pick a damned fight with him, and I enjoy a good fight now and then. He just cowed down like I had his balls in a vice.

Anyway, my point is... try talking to your wife. Explain to her how you feel, what you think is missing in your relationship, and what you need from her in order to feel more secure in the marriage. Its not fair to her to try to replace her with someone else that might not be what you want after all. You married your wife for a reason... remember what it was, and get it back.

I got lucky, and managed to fix my relationship with my fiance after all was said and done. I would hate for you to give up your marriage and not be so lucky.

[jedimaster91]

I agree with what everyone else has said. Talk to your wife and get counseling. If you're worried about the cost of counseling, get in touch with your local clergy. They can help you find free or low cost counsolers.

[dendawg]

Thank you, everybody, for giving me neutral, non-judgmental advice. The idea of a counselor had been on my mind before I posted originally. I just emailed wife a link to a counselor that bases their fees on income/need. I have yet to broach the subject verbally. I have not yet filled wife in on the other details of the online relationship, as I feel that should be done in front of a neutral third party. (counselor)

I also know that in a lot of this, I have no one to blame other than myself. I never asked for any of this to happen, but happen it has, and now must be dealt with.

And thank you guys also, for the online relationship warnings, although I'm fully aware of the risks. I met my wife much the same way I did with the other lady, ie. chat.

I will keep you guys posted of any further updates.

Dendawg

[dendawg]

Update: Well, she emailed me back, saying that she can't see how counseling could help, as we handn't begun to talk to each other.

So, I responded:


I fail to see the point in communicating, when everything I say will be met with negativity, or be referred to as a "cop out," or anything along that line. I need to be able to express myself, in a forum where I won't be judged or condemned. Some place where my feelings can be acknowledged, and not just dismissed. Counseling is the only way I see to be able to do that. It can be the way we can "begin to talk to each other."

Am I right or wrong in saying that?

Dendawg

[Soulstealer]

Update: Well, she emailed me back, saying that she can't see how counseling could help, as we handn't begun to talk to each other.

So, I responded:



Am I right or wrong in saying that?

Dendawg

It's good you said it if that's how you feel. I really would advise couple's counseling but perhaps you should have a few one on one sessions with a different therapist too before hand. It's slightly a calculating move to show that you mean what you say and want to work on the relationship before the two of you find a couple's therapist and also in situations where relationships deteriorate they're often accompanied with depression and it would benefit you if you find someone good.

[dendawg]

Update:

Well, wife and I finally sat down and talked.

It's over between us. :cry:

But thankfully, it wasn't the knock-down, drag-out kind of fight I was expecting. Things were surprisingly civil, barring a few shed tears on both sides. I'll be moving in with the other woman sometime during New Year's week. I have no doubt things between her and I will be okay. :)

I know some of you think I'm a cheating pig, but that's okay. Things were civil, there are very few hard feelings in the end, she wants me to be happy, and that's what matters.

Please wish me luck on this new path my life has taken.

A very down, but ultimately happy
Dendawg

[tropicsgoddess]

Update:

Well, wife and I finally sat down and talked.

It's over between us. :cry:

But thankfully, it wasn't the knock-down, drag-out kind of fight I was expecting. Things were surprisingly civil, barring a few shed tears on both sides. I'll be moving in with the other woman sometime during New Year's week. I have no doubt things between her and I will be okay. :)

I know some of you think I'm a cheating pig, but that's okay. Things were civil, there are very few hard feelings in the end, she wants me to be happy, and that's what matters.

Please wish me luck on this new path my life has taken.

A very down, but ultimately happy
Dendawg


I don't think you're a cheating pig or anything of that sort. Sorry to hear about the wife. Sucks, but sometimes it's for the best. Thankfully it was civil between you and the wife. I hope things work out for you both.

[NightWatch]

I'm glad this didn't have to drag out. It would have been bad for both of you. I still recommend therapy on an individual basis for you, after that sort of split, you will likely need someone to vent to. As I'm sure your new love will not want to hear you venting about your ex wife. My only real concern is that you be very careful not to drag the new woman into the middle of anything. But, I also do not think you are a cheating pig, I wish you the best of luck

[strawbabies]

Update:
I'll be moving in with the other woman sometime during New Year's week. I have no doubt things between her and I will be okay. :)


Is there any possibility you could get your own place for a while, and take things slowly with the new woman?