Mr. Rum's family implodes - all while I'm sleeping!

[CaroPhoenix]

Background: BIL#1 was in a car accident a couple of weeks ago. He suffered a bonk to the head (no head injury though) and hurt his right(?) arm (he's suffered soft tissue damage and is in physcial therapy, but he's worried that he might not be able to go back to his job as a truck driver if his arm is too damaged). He totaled his car. It was a Smart Car, he hit a patch of black ice, and ran into a telephone pole (the airbag never deployed).

So I get up from my nap, wondering what we're having for dinner, and Mr. Rum is sitting on the couch, looking a little stunned, and I'm like "What?"

He said, "My family's imploded!"

I'm like, "What?"

Then he tells me this story:

He first got a call from his Mom (my MIL). BIL#1 had called MIL & FIL and said that he'd like to come down with K3 (his youngest of 2 daughters, K2 is Child Rum, for those playing at home, all granddaughters have K names). The In-Laws thought it was odd that BIL#1 was coming down to visit and bring one of his daughters down because he never just comes down just to visit. So FIL calls BIL#1 back and asks what is up. Come to find out, BIL#1 wanted to borrow $5,000 to keep him & his family afloat for the next couple of months until February, 2010. (He claimed it was mainly for mortgage payments). MIL & FIL both turned him down. They explained to him that they had no liquid cash on them as they are fixing up their other house so they can put it on the market and sell it. Because they couldn't, or wouldn't, let BIL#1 borrow $5,000 from them, BIL#1 is now threatening to keep his 2 daughters away from them for an indefinite amount of time.

As soon as Mr. Rum got off the phone with his Mom, BIL#2 (the youngest brother) called! According to BIL#2, after some thinking, BIL#1 decided he "only needed" $3,000. BIL#2 and his wife are loaning BIL#1 the $3,000. They said that if it had only been BIL#1 and his wife, they wouldn't have, but because they are worried about the 2 kids having a roof over their heads, they were willing to part with the $3,000 (BIL#1 promised to pay them back with his tax refund).

Now, I'm happy that Mr. Rum didn't go to BIL#1's house on Saturday night. BIL#1 never ever invites Mr. Rum over for anything, and yet, he kept calling to see if Mr. Rum was going to come over to his house for the UFC show he bought on Pay-Per-View! I'm sure now, BIL#1 was going to hit Mr. Rum up for the cash.

Why do all these exciting things happen when I take a nap?

[Soulstealer]

Now, I'm happy that Mr. Rum didn't go to BIL#1's house on Saturday night. BIL#1 never ever invites Mr. Rum over for anything, and yet, he kept calling to see if Mr. Rum was going to come over to his house for the UFC show he bought on Pay-Per-View! I'm sure now, BIL#1 was going to hit Mr. Rum up for the cash.



Why did he get pay-per-view if he's hard up for money? I can think of other ways to entice people over that don't require paying for luxuries.

[taxguykarl]

Am I reading this right?!:confused:
This BIL is scrounging other relatives for money and he is ordering fights on pay-per-view (not a cheap proposition).

[CaroPhoenix]

Umm ... Yeah ... Yeah! You're both right! OMG!! I didn't even think about that! :doh:

And I spoke to Mr. Rum later this morning, and he told me that BIL#2 agrees with BIL#1 that keeping the 2 kids away from their grandparents is a good thing to "punish" MIL & FIL for not letting him borrow the money from them.

Mr. Rum is, as always, has no opinion as he doesn't like to rock the boat. :rolleyes:

[Green_Fairy]

wow. pay-per-view ufc's like, $50 and up. if you're hard up for money...that's just ridiculous. is this normal behavior for him?

[CaroPhoenix]

Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken him this long to beggar money from family. He & his family would take cruises once or twice a year, gambling on the boat, drinking lots of alcohol (even with their kids). Both BIL & his wife bought Smart Cars - brand new at the same time.

They had to get a gigantic single family home. Get 2 designer little dogs. They're always buying stuff for their kids and giving their kids elaborate birthday parties.

I'm really not sorry that he has to go around asking for money. I'm just shocked that he thought his parents would give him the money just by asking (his parents never hand out money, are in fact incredibly stingy) and now he's using his kids as punishment.

[Green_Fairy]

how'd they afford all the awesomeness? you mentioned that he's a truck driver...they don't really make that much.
sounds like some old neighbors of mine...ended up going bankrupt cuz they didn't know how to not spend money.

[lordlundar]

(his parents never hand out money, are in fact incredibly stingy

Scottish? (I know, bad joke. Please don't hurt me.:D)

[Amina516]

I see a Judge Judy episode in the works... :D

Anyone that threatens to keep grandchildren away b/c someone cant/wont give them money, probably shouldnt be trusted with money. :p

[Food Lady]

Scottish? (I know, bad joke. Please don't hurt me.:D) :lol: My mom says the same about her husband of Scottish descent. Except in his old age he's become a spender.

[CaroPhoenix]

Scottish? (I know, bad joke. Please don't hurt me.:D)


Actually, yes, my FIL is Scottish (part of the Campbell clan). :lol:

I never thought my BIL#1 made a lot of money as a truck driver. However, his brother-in-law (his wife's brother) used to be his partner and they'd do the overnight truck runs (which according to them, made more money that way). And his wife is a leasing agent at an apartment complex.

BIL#1 did change trucking jobs working only weekends and still making "good money".

BIL#1 and his wife really don't know how to save money. Wife doesn't cook, and they eat out practically every night. Plus, when BIL#1 does cook, his wife doesn't believe in leftovers, so whatever is not eaten, it goes into the garbage. Plus, they were able to afford the house they had because they lived with the wife's parents for almost a year without paying rent so they could save for their house.

Is it bad of me to feel like dancing?

[BookstoreEscapee]

Why did he get pay-per-view if he's hard up for money? I can think of other ways to entice people over that don't require paying for luxuries.

Sounds familiar. Ex could never pay the bills, but he could always pay his bar tab (several times a week). Now I'm about to file for a default judgment against him.

I would recommend any loans be put in writing with payment terms and due dates spelled out and notarized...(learned this the hard way). Might want to pass that along to the lender. Edit: try www.nolo.com (http://www.nolo.com) for easy forms.

[alogram]

Ugh, Smart Cars. Those things scare me.

[dougall]

I agree with BookstoreEscapee in that he should get a loan agreement in writing because otherwise he could claim it was a gift. But I am not a lawyer but I also watch Judge Judy now and again. :)

[tropicsgoddess]

Ugh, Smart Cars. Those things scare me.

Those things are small, but the Tango cars (http://hight3ch.com/tango-car-one-seater-half-of-a-smart/)are even smaller. Try cramming yourself into those babies! :eek:

[42_42_42]

Children should never be used in that manner! It is really only hurting the kids.

BTW, many states have grandparents rights laws. So the grandparents can sue in family court for visitation.

Just putting that out there. Do with the info what you will.

[CaroPhoenix]

Children should never be used in that manner! It is really only hurting the kids.

BTW, many states have grandparents rights laws. So the grandparents can sue in family court for visitation.

Just putting that out there. Do with the info what you will.


In our state, of the grand and glorious VA, they'd have to go to court to get visitation. I don't know if they'd actually want to go through with that.

I just think it's incredibly selfish of BIL#1 to deny his parents access to his daughters. And I can't understand how BIL#2 could think it's a great idea!

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the fact both Brothers-in-law thought it would be a good idea to ask their parents for the money. I mean, they never ever part with their money, and even begrudge paying the restaurant bill (even when they say they'll pay and tell us to order whatever we want on the menu - price is not even a determination).

I told Mr. Rum last night, I wouldn't be surprised if BIL#1 was thisclose to being foreclosed on and I wouldn't be surprised if it did come to that that my MIL & FIL would do absolutely nothing to help BIL#1 and his family out.

[taxguykarl]

how'd they afford all the awesomeness? you mentioned that he's a truck driver...they don't really make that much.
sounds like some old neighbors of mine...ended up going bankrupt cuz they didn't know how to not spend money.I've done enough trucker returns. I've seen W-2's showing anywhere from $30k (local hauls-new to the biz) to $90K (long hauls-well seasoned vetran).
:soapbox:idrinkarum's BIL clearly knows how to spend money. Had he not demonstrated that?:devil: He either doesn't know how to set priorities (i.e. house, food, utilities before vacations and toys:doh:) or has confused credit with income (like Mrs. TGK's ex:rolleyes:).

[protege]

Sounds familiar. Ex could never pay the bills, but he could always pay his bar tab (several times a week). Now I'm about to file for a default judgment against him.

Sounds like some of my relatives...namely my 30-year-old brother. That idiot has been unemployed for almost 2 years, and doesn't seem all that interested in getting a job. He "can't afford" to pay the minimal rent my mother charges...yet he's constantly getting new video games or accessories for his PS3. Should also mention that most of his day consists of sleeping, watching TV, and playing video games. If it wasn't for the fact that the kitchen is downstairs...he'd never leave his bedroom. He gets away with it, simply because if he doesn't get his way, he lays a massive guilt trip on my mother :rolleyes:

I, on the other hand, don't get any toys...unless I can afford them, and all the other bills have been paid first. The exception was the MG--at the time, it was sitting outside, and I was afraid something would happen to it. I felt I had no choice but to use my credit card for the repairs, and later pay off the balance. More expensive to do it that way, but the car is home, and I don't owe a penny on it. I was able to reconfigure my investments a bit to raise the needed cash. Otherwise, I don't get new toys all that often--the last being the 1/12 scale 1937 Cord 812 model kit I picked up as an early Christmas present. Cash for that came out of my year-end bonus...with the balance going into the bank

[CaroPhoenix]

BIL#1 and his wife don't have a concept of saving money. I asked Mr. Rum and he said they absolutely. have. no. savings! :jawdrop: I just couldn't believe it. I mean, he grew up in a stingy, money-controlled family unit and he spends money like water!

We only have a few thousand in savings, but that's obviously more than what BIL#1 and his wife have in the bank.

BIL#1 has also looked into suing Smart Car to the non-deployed airbag. The 3 lawyers he talked to said the only way a suit would be profitable would be:

1. He died as a result of the airbag not deploying

OR

2. He had lots and lots of medical bills that were really expensive.

[Broomjockey]

I mean, he grew up in a stingy, money-controlled family unit and he spends money like water!


Actually, that makes rather a lot of sense. It's similar to the phenomenon of the "tightly wound good kid goes insane on an alcohol-fueled frenzy when they move out." Sure, not all, maybe not even most, do that, but a lot of people still, upon attaining freedom from a situation at one extreme, go straight to the other extreme and stay there.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Actually, that makes rather a lot of sense. It's similar to the phenomenon of the "tightly wound good kid goes insane on an alcohol-fueled frenzy when they move out." Sure, not all, maybe not even most, do that, but a lot of people still, upon attaining freedom from a situation at one extreme, go straight to the other extreme and stay there.

That would explain the foreign exchange students one of my college roommates befriended; one of them ended up moving in for a semester when his original roommate left after the fall semester.

I'd think their parents kept a closer eye on them when they were in their home countries, and didn't have the access to alcohol, drugs and sex their that they did in America. Because, good God, those kids just acted like they had just been let off the leash. They'd drink like fish, they'd party hearty all hours of the night and then miss their classes in the morning because they were trying to sleep it all off, they constantly seemed to have nookie on their minds.

I'll never forget how one of them greeted me as I returned to my apartment after being home for spring break. He asked me "Did you have a lot of sex?" :lol:

[BookstoreEscapee]

I've done enough trucker returns. I've seen W-2's showing anywhere from $30k (local hauls-new to the biz) to $90K (long hauls-well seasoned vetran).
I work at a warehouse, and there are two other warehouses on the same access road, and there are several others in the area...I see a lot of trucks...sometimes they have ads for drivers. I've seen some advertising salaries up to 64K.

Sounds like some of my relatives...namely my 30-year-old brother. That idiot has been unemployed for almost 2 years, and doesn't seem all that interested in getting a job.
That's the thing...he doesn't even have that excuse (if you can call it that). He had a job (still does)...he made more money that I did (still does). Yet he was always late and/or short on the rent, etc. (Now he's trying to claim it was all "my part of the bills"...). And like Rummy's BIL, he had no savings, and likely still doesn't have much.

[Ben_Who]

Why did he get pay-per-view if he's hard up for money? I can think of other ways to entice people over that don't require paying for luxuries.

It may have been an enticement. Once, when I was about to hit my roommate up for money, I took him to dinner to soften the blow. (I wasn't asking for a loan; his girlfriend had moved in and was living with us free of charge, which was awesome for them but sucked for me.) Of course, it did not go well, with roommate pitching a Level Five Hissy Fit and stomping off...after cleaning his plate, of course...

Love, Who?

[CaroPhoenix]

I talked to SIL#2 (wife of BIL#2) online last night. She's really really pissed off at the in-laws. And so is her husband.

They did the same thing to her & her hubs a couple of years ago, but the fall out wasn't so bad.

BIL#2 and his wife are supposed to be going to the in-laws' house on Christmas Eve, but she says that's up in the air because of BIL#2's feelings towards their parents.

They're all focusing on the fact that the in-laws refused to loan money to their hurt-in-a-car-accident son who has to provide for his wife and 2 daughters. Don't they care their grandkids could be out on the street?

SIL#2 even mentioned how she begged our FIL to hold off on the cabinets for the other house for 6 weeks, but he refused. They've been sitting on this other house for YEARS and all of a sudden they have a bug up their butts to get it fixed up so they can sell it.

I just don't understand the sense of entitlement (to a point) from the BILs and the hard-hearted (and hard-headed) stance of the in-laws. (I know for a fact that if I went to my parents they'd help us out in a heart beat - little to no questions asked).

[Broomjockey]

the hard-hearted (and hard-headed) stance of the in-laws.

Again, I say, this actually makes sense from what you've imparted. They're frugal. They've probably got decent savings. They taught their children how. They believe their children should have sufficient savings. If the children don't, it's the child's fault. They're adults, they should be able to take care of themselves. It's another parenting lesson, to them. "You've been living wastefully, and this is your punishment. We're not going to bail you out of your own folly. I hope you've learned your lesson."

And from BIL#1's reaction, he HAS learned a lesson, and he's trying hard to fight having to actually act on it by using emotional blackmail.

[CaroPhoenix]

That's true Broom. However, from what I've gleaned with convos with SIL#2 and with my husband, the In-Laws are going to be losing 2 sons over this. BIL#1 and BIL#2 are both extremely angry and because of this, I'm not sure anyone but Mr. Rum are ever going to either talk or visit the in-laws ever again.

My MIL has more money than my FIL, however, the money isn't all liquid (most of it's in stocks). However, they do have enough to live on and buy food, clothes, etc. And then there's the money they're putting into the house they're planning on selling.

From what I've been able to figure out from Mr. Rum's descriptions of their childhood, his parents were never helpful when it came to their children. And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact BIL#1 thought 1. asking his parents for the money was a good idea and 2. thinking emotional blackmail is going to soften them up.

The emotional blackmail might work on his mother (though she doesn't talk to her own twin brother), but I can tell you right now ... It's going to make my FIL dig his heels into the ground competely and budge. At. All. I don't think he'll care about losing contact with his two sons even at the expense of losing 2 of his granddaughters.

[Broomjockey]

Well, similar thing happened with my mom's parents and her brothers. Both of them were fairly big screw-ups, though one had an excuse (persistent mental issues including a generalized panic disorder). The one that didn't have an excuse was always hitting them up for cash because he kept buying businesses and then going bankrupt. The difference is, they actually helped him the first couple of times. When they finally said "enough's enough, pick up your own life's pieces, we can't keep bailing you out," he took both his daughters and never talked to them until his dad died, and then (check out these cajones) asked his mom for another "loan." If your in-laws are as frugal as you say, then they probably skipped the whole "helping" portion, skipped straight to "fix your own life," and realize he's a dick, and though sad, realize that it was only a matter of time until it happened this way any ways.

[protege]

If your in-laws are as frugal as you say, then they probably skipped the whole "helping" portion, skipped straight to "fix your own life," and realize he's a dick, and though sad, realize that it was only a matter of time until it happened this way any ways.

Most of my live, my parents did help me out. Most of the time, any screw-ups were through no fault of my own. As such, I usually didn't go *asking* for help, unless I *really* needed it. And if I got it, you can believe that I worked my ass off so the problem wouldn't happen again.

My brothers though, are another story. My parents have put up with their antics for far too long. In fact, my father actually calls them "those two parasites," instead of his sons. Unfortunate, but they've not earned that title, but have developed a serious case of EW. As such, he's tired of it, and naturally...doesn't get along with them.

[CaroPhoenix]

Thinking about this bailing sons out of financial ruin thing, I remember a story Mr. Rum told me while we were still dating.

After high school, Mr. Rum got a sports scholarship to play Rugby at Virginia Tech. (He was a prop - that was the position he played). He got kicked out of the school after either his 1st or 2nd year there. (Too much partying, drinking, etc. to actually care about classes and/or grades).

He basically came home, tail between his legs. I know his father was angry & disgusted with him. This was shortly after Mr. Rum's Grandpa died and left money to MIL.

FIL basically told Mr. Rum he had screwed up his education, too bad/so sad and that he wasn't going to help him out at all. MIL actually went against his wishes, using her inheritance money, she helped him pay for his 2 year college degree at the local community college. By the time he got that, I tihnk he had gotten an intern job with the Fed Gov't, and they basically paid for his Bachelor's Degree & his Master's Degree in Public Administration (Which is Business Administration, but for the Government). The organization he works for would actually pay for him to get more education, and there is a local college that actually offers a PhD in Public Administration, but he's not sure if he wants to go back to school.

So that is the only story I can think of that MIL actually helped any of her sons out, even though FIL wouldn't.