ME2 SPOILER thread (warning, spoilers ahead!)

[LewisLegion]

This thread is for those who have beaten at least one ME2 playthrough, or for those who don’t mind spoilers. And spoilers there will be :D

Ok, first just let me say…how AWESOME was that?? I spent the last hour of the game on the edge of my seat, including yelling ‘no no no!’ when I thought Tali would die.

For those who mentioned the romances and how Ash/Kaiden smacks you down or how Liara has changed, let me say this.

SPOILERS
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Ash/Kaiden relationship can be salvaged, I’m pretty sure. If you tell them you were in a coma for the two years, and that you are not WITH Cerberus but only being funded by them for the moment, they will later send you an ‘apology’ letter. Their whole point of view is that first they find out you’ve been alive for two years and haven’t contacted them (which has to hurt, they had no idea you were actually unconscious for the whole while. For all they know you just cast them aside), and that you are suddenly working for the ‘enemy’. Yeah, like anyone, they’re having a major ‘wtf’ anger issue. From everything I’ve gleaned from the Bioware production team, the original romances CAN be carried over into ME3 if you play your cards right.

As for Liara, if you do her quests and then choose the ‘why so much anger’ option after she mentions stuffing the Shadow Broker into a coffee cup, she will break down and explain some things to you. This option only appears ONCE and you don’t get it again. Don’t read below if you don’t want to know what it triggers:

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Basically, the gist of my understanding is, she found out it was the Shadow Broker who told the Collectors where to find you. So she blames the Shadow Broker for your death. Also, her friend that was helping her try and find you (find out if you were alive or not) ended up being captured and killed/tortured by the Shadow Broker. So she’s got a real hate on for him/her now.

She incurred a massive amount of personal debt trying to find you. From what I understand, she’s the one that finally locates your dead body. Whether she actually sees it or not is unclear but she ends up ‘making a deal with the devil’ with Cerberus and turns your body over to them on the desperate chance they’ll be able to save you. She was afraid this would make you hate her when you found out what she’d done.

My FemShep didn’t end up romancing anyone else so I can hold off and see what comes of this in ME3. My MaleShep I’m playing through now will also hold on after his confrontation with Ash to see what is resolved in ME3. The rest of my Sheps are free to pursue new romances in the second game, so that’ll be interesting as well (no Kaiden romances. I didn't like him at all).

And finally, I lost Legion. Not entirely sure how as his loyalty was up and I had all upgrades. Anyone have any ideas on what I should have done different to get everyone out alive?

[Gravekeeper]

I miss Liara, honestly and weirdly enough. Don't get me wrong the new 3 romances for MaleShep are all incredibly well done. But I found none of them really replaced Liara for me and MaleShep just doesn't click with me as well as FemShep ( My alternate future life self apparently has a vagina ) . Not even Tali. She's too cute and kid sisterish. I was railroaded into that one frankly. Court martial, her dad's dead and now she's asking me out? Saying no would probably make her blow herself out an airlock at that point. But I do like Tali from ME1 so I just sacrificed my MaleShep on her altar. Her, he's yours now, be happy. I'll make another Shep later. >.>

I picked Vanguard too which was meh. I couldn't find my FemShep saved game to import so I imported the only one I could find and he was my 2nd or 3rd playthrough and a Vanguard ( I vastly perfer Infiltrator ) for a change of pace.

I was going to replay as FemShep regardless but no Liara really kills the idea for me. Although I suspect they might DLC in Ash/Liara since it allows freeplay after the end and both of them had temporary reasons to not join you ( At least one of which is resolved by the completion of the final mission since you can break your allegiance to Cerberus ). There's no way they'll leave it till ME3. 4 years for the romance resolutions? Fans would riot.

As for the ending. Everyone survived. My checklist is thus:

All Squad affecting Upgrades you can find ( Seems to up survival )
All Ship Upgrades ( Or people die in the ship battle beforehand )
Everyone loyal AND in their unlocked alternate costumes ( Weirdly it seems to matter )
Do not wait to go through the Omega 4 Relay once it becomes available. Waiting will start to kill off your non-squadmate crew.

In the final mission I did:

Vents: Legion
Round #1 Fireteam Leader: Miranda
Barrier: Samara
Round #2 Fireteam Leader: Miranda again
Escort crew back to ship: Thane ( figured he was the sneakiest )
Final Battle: Jack + Tali

At the end I told them we needed to hurry rather then someone had to hold the door. Miranda took a shot in the gut ( giving me a near heart attack ) but lived. Everyone survived, no causalities.

Now imma wait for some Liara DLC before I revive my FemShep self. Or a DLC for a Samara romance subplot. She's probably my favourite out of the cast to be honest. Sucker for a spiritual side. The fact there's a bittersweet romantic moment in there with her makes it all the worse.

Also, go to the AI Core and just stand there and watch Legion for a minute or two for one of the best easter eggs ever ;p

[LewisLegion]

Ok, I DID wait for a tad after the Omega 4 opened because I had to mine a bit more to finally upgrade my ship armor plating. But there was no bloody way I was going through without it.

My final combinations:

Vents: Legion
Round #1 Fireteam Leader: Samara
Barrier: Samara again
Round #2 Fireteam Leader: Miranda
Escort crew back to ship: Zaeed ( figured he was the one I cared about least if he died)
Final Battle: Jack + Tali

Legion got shot in the face trying to help me close the doors. Miranda also got shot in mine as you described, and survived.

Liara DLC would ROCK. I really hope your right or _I_ will be one of those rioting.

As for romances...for males Miranda, Jack and Tali are obvious. Females it's clear that it's Jacob and Thane but...is GARRUS really the third one?? I tried to avoid any kind of 'flirty' or seemingly romantic options for everyone because I was saving my Shep for Liara but...

Really? Garrus??

[Gravekeeper]

There's Morinth and Kelly too, though she doesn't count as a "Real" romance despite having most the same options. Morinth on the other hand ends in a game over if you romance her since luring her into bed is a Bad Idea(tm). You can recruit Morinth over Samara if you want ( you need enough Renegade, or enough Paragon to resist Morinth's charms which seems to trigger the option too ).

But yeah longer you take before going through the more of your crew gets liquefied. I dunno if it affects your squad though, but it might. Just a tip, the Omega 4 mission activates exactly 2 missions after you get Legion and the IFF. Doesn't matter what 2 missions. So that's your window to mine and upgrade without being under the thumb of a time limit.

Garrus's is hilarious. Was watching snippets on Youtube. Mordin's sex advice is comedy gold too. Especially for Tali and Thane ( Apparently Thane's like certain species of frog. "Prolonged oral contact" will cause hallucinations. )

Jack's suppose to be a real emotional gutpunch if you go Paragon on her. Which is what I'm up too now as Jack is fun to tease and her snippy responses crack me up ( "You didn't have to answer that so fast, fucker." ). But not much motivation. I need Liara or Samara DLC. Samara was definitely my favourite in ME2, enjoyed the conversation, the romantic tease was evil of Bioware. She probably opens up in ME3 but christ another 2 years? They should have made both at the same time like LOTR or made ME3 an expansion ala Throne of Bhaal. Or an intervening expansion before ME3. ME2 doesn't feel like it ended story wise and indeed it doesn't play wise either.

Jack is striking me a bit like Tali. "Here, I made a Shepard for you because you need a hug."

Not touching Miranda. I'm sure she's a lovely person but she's too attractive to be attractive. If that makes any sense.

[LewisLegion]

Well, I have enough Shepards and Shepardesses to romance everyone and see how they all turn out. I didn't know you could actually get Morinth in bed. She was just starting to turn on her charms when Samara strode in. Though I can see how it would be an Uber Bad Idea (tm).

For Mordin, I didn't get the 'sex advice' talk...prob because I didn't pursue any romances. But him bursting out in song had me and my room-mates rolling on the floor. Shepard's whole 'i'm sure that was all important but hang on...you sing?' comment and expression was classic. As well as his little belief that I must be 'interested' in him because I came to talk to him so much.

All told, Samara and Grunt were my two favorites. I had an attachment to Tali and Garrus as well because they were 'old crew'. I do like Miranda but she's a bit too distant. Jack was good. The rest I could more or less take or leave. Tali definately had much more character appeal here than in the first game where I tended to just ignore her. Legion was interesting...I guess I didn't really have him long enough to really form a connection though.

[Nurian]

If you stand besie Legion long enough, he starts dancing.

I'm rerunning my main MaleShep, the one that romanced Ash before. I'll have him romance Tali, I think just so I can see teh DRAMA in ME3. Or I'll run through again and keep him faithful.

Since Liara didn't give me a OMG TRAITORZ speech, My FemShep will remain faithful to her. My renegade...well....who knows?

The reason I feel like I failed when I had 3 die is when Samara died, she told me her shield couldn't hold up.

[LewisLegion]

Speaking of dancing, did you guys have your Sheps dance? Geez, they look like pre-teens awkwardly bopping along to music at their first official dance. LAME! *ROFL*

[RayvenQ]

If i can find it in my local Game store, I might just rebuy ME1 so i can play through it and then play through ME2 again with it.

[Nurian]

Shouldn't be hard to find. It was very popular. I think it's down to 20 dollars.

[RayvenQ]

Goddamnit, I have to stop playing the game because the objective marker is going mental like it was before and it's so annoying, thought it was due to me having dual screen as setting it to one screen sorted it but now it's back.

[Gravekeeper]

Dancin' Legion <3

Legion is fascinating, its honestly a real shame and a weakness in the game that he comes into it so late and that getting him triggers the count down so its impossible to get to know him until after you beat the game.

With enough Renegade or what have you, you can choose to help Morinth in the fight with Samara. Which results in Samara being killed instead. Morinth takes her place and her identity on your crew. No one else knows of the switch cept you. Romancing her from there will get you black widow'd though. ;p

The only real total throw away is Jacob. He's just...there. Just a vacant placeholder. Everyone else I either really liked or they at least had their moments. Cept Jacob. I didn't get too close to Miranda either. Saw a bit beneath the surface during her loyalty mission but her sudden flirtiness had me running screaming from her office.

The other criticism I'll level is the ME1 love interests being so tossed aside with stupid reasons. There really has to be DLC or something planned there as it was uncharacteristically shallow of Bioware yet at the same time you can't officially end the ME1 LIs as far as the game is concerned regardless of how bad the reunions go. The first time I was just thrashed by Ash and didn't exactly feel any remorse for going with Tali. The second time I played it different annnd actually got thrashed even more but managed to crack Ash and see her emotions. Niether encounter "broke" the relationship apparently ( there's no way to get closure with Ash short of acting like Captain Douche for every dialogue option but even then I imagine it sticks ).

Much to my surprise the second time when the argument turned even more vicious actually didn't give me any options when talking to Kelly to say that it was over. Then I go talk to TIM and hit something I missed the first time through: That the fucker just orchestrated all of that specifically too break me up with Ash. Then I felt really bad. And vengeful. Very vengeful.

Still, her reasons for not joining you are BS honestly. Tali and Garrus when hearing about your situation with Cerberus react as "Oh shi- you're in trouble I better come with you to watch your back and protect you from them.". Ash is "Hey I know I love you and all but my reputation in the Alliance is more important but you're still an asshole for dying.". Which is what really killed the romance for me regardless.

Liara on the other hand has an even more BS reason frankly. At least Ash is operating within her confines as an Alliance soldier and her personality. Liara just has this entire intervening subplot and personality overhaul ( which was off putting honestly ) that was made up for ME2 specifically to keep her off your crew. Where ironically you could help her with it. TIM is kind of a duh for the Shadow Broker in many ways and you do get the option to hijack an entire Cerberus database at one point. You can't tell me there's nothing in there she couldn't use. Plus TIM's info network has gotta be beyond Liara's.

But nooo.

Sigh, just me and Samara now. ;p

[RayvenQ]

With Liara I backed away from my screen going "Wai-...what?"

As for TIM, Hell I don't trust the guy, in my mind he set up the attack on the Normandy, afterall what a coincidence they he has Ressurection technology at his disposal at the same time the ship gets attacked and Shep killed. Plus the SR2, that thing has got to have taken well more than a couple of years to build. And the beggining conversation makes me suspect it even more, when he's saying that they shouldn't let themselves lose him (not to combat related death or injury but lose him in regards to the Alliance always sending him on missions and th elike)

You'd think your LI would cut you some slack, afterall, you know, you did save the freaking gaxlaxy.

Hell, it wouldn't suprise me if TIM was connected to the reapers and working as an agent for them, progessing humans place amongst the galaxy? Yeah, right, hell farmers want to make sure they have a good quality crop before harvesting them.

I kinda laughed at miranda's loyalty mission, namely because she's such a cocky cow, hah, you didn't see your friend betraying you did you little miss perfect!

[Gravekeeper]

I kinda laughed at miranda's loyalty mission, namely because she's such a cocky cow, hah, you didn't see your friend betraying you did you little miss perfect!

She does make it a tad hard to like her at first with the attitude. But I was happy for her and her sister. Till she started getting flirting with me afterwards and ManShep apparently thinks with his penis and cannot execute any available dialogue option without checking up Miranda's ass.

I dislike ManShep, the voice actor and his line delivery are typically cringe worthy in romantic scenes.

But FemShep has no Liara, qq.

[RayvenQ]

I wish what you chose as your birth affected your voice, Renegade voiced by Steve Blum (Grunt and the Traitor scientist guy at the beggining) or Michael Wincott would be awesome as long as he did it in his Cyrus voice (Hell I named my Infiltrator Shep Cyrus cause he was such a bad ass in that game). Though I have found myself wishing Michael Dobson had done some of the voices, reminds me of my childhood in a good way.

I love one of the mini missions on the Citadel, where you can buy a fish from a gift shop and convince a Krogan that there are fish in the Presidium lake.

[Sarlon]

well I FINALLY beat the game...3 deaths.

I really had NO clue what I was doing, and I now wonder if I took to long going through the omega 4 relay...

got the geth dude, ran a few more missions, mined some minerals to get my final ship upgrade, and THEN went through the relay....


be honest...did I wait to long or does it reeally matter?

[RayvenQ]

It might have just been something as simple as not assigning your guys the right roles.

[Gravekeeper]

got the geth dude, ran a few more missions, mined some minerals to get my final ship upgrade, and THEN went through the relay....


be honest...did I wait to long or does it reeally matter?

Depends, if you wait between your crew being captured and going through the relay the casualty list starts to tick up starting with non-squad crew ( Kelly, the doctor, the mess cook, etc ). Not sure if it affects squad crew or not, it might if Lewis's game is any indication. I went through immediately because I wanted vengeeeeeance~.

[LewisLegion]

Yeah, I still can't figure out how I lost Legion.

I've started my main ManShep playthrough and restarted my main FemShep. So hopefully I'll be able to get everyone through alive this time.

My roommates have started ME1 chars to play through that and get them into ME2, so I've started a fire apparently :) Course, this does mean we'll be fighting for the Xbox now....

[Gravekeeper]

Just for tormenting Lewis purposes. The PC version of the game has one cut character ( Kasumi ) that didn't make it in time for release that's being repackaged as a DLC. All her files are in ME2 cept art/model already and you can hear references to her around Citadel. Second up is the Hammerhead ( Replacing the Mako ). Though I recoil in terror over having vehicle missions again. >.>

The PC game code also seems to have additional flag references to Liara and unused Liara audio. Like they were working on moar but didn't make it.

Fingers crossed for Liara DLC. But will gladly take a Kasumi in the meantime. ;p

[lordlundar]

Fingers crossed for Liara DLC. But will gladly take a Kasumi in the meantime. ;p

Supposedly they're tying it in with the redemption comic, as an explination on what Liara was actually doing in that time between the Normandy being destroyed and the events of the second game.

[Gravekeeper]

Supposedly they're tying it in with the redemption comic, as an explination on what Liara was actually doing in that time between the Normandy being destroyed and the events of the second game.

Yar, though technically the Redemption comic does explain that, ehe. Even with reading the comics though it still strikes me as a bit of a cop out reason for having Liara refuse to join the crew.

"Hey Liara, I have my own ship, the best crew in the galaxy, unlimited funding, years worth of Cerberus intel data and access to one of the largest information networks in the universe. Oh and if my mission fails you and everyone you know will die screaming anyway."
"Nah, this will go faster from my shithole office on Illium with just me and my laptop kthxbye."

Yeah, no. ;p

[lordlundar]

"Hey Liara, I have my own ship, the best crew in the galaxy, unlimited funding, years worth of Cerberus intel data and access to one of the largest information networks in the universe. Oh and if my mission fails you and everyone you know will die screaming anyway."
"Nah, this will go faster from my shithole office on Illium with just me and my laptop kthxbye."

Gotta disagree with you there GK. Don't forget that the Normandy SR-2 is owned by Cerberus, not Shepard, and EDI admits to there being an incredible amount of monitoring equipment on the ship to ensure Shepard does the job. In addition, Cerberus isn't willing to allow an alien, let alone one with ties to the Shadow Broker, free access to the intel database. (remember, the only ones on that ship are ones specifically approved by the Illusive Man personally, Legion and Grunt being the only exclusions but approved because they are set on the same goal) Remember, Liara is bound determined to expose secrets, and the Illusive man has a LOT of them.


Now as it stands, Liara is one of the top information brokers in the galaxy. Heck, she's come a hell of a lot closer to destroying the entire Shadow network than most have ever dared to try and is still alive.

That "shithole office" and laptop have done a virtual impossibility. So given the choice of a database that you might not have access to or if you did will be heavily monitored, or a personal information network that is capable of tackling some of the greatest secrets in the galaxy, I'd take the "shithole office" myself.

[Gravekeeper]

Gotta disagree with you there GK. <snip>


#1: I was being a sarcastic bastard. ( It's kind of my MO, <cough> )

#2: Dunno about you but I recovered and kept that entire Cerberus database for myself and TIM didn't pick up on that one.

#3: TIM has a rather obvious bone to pick with SB.

#4: Shepard has ultimate control over the ship's databases. ( Otherwise there's no way you could have ordered them open to Jack. )

#5: Its implied and noted a few times that the monitoring equipment on board has Miranda at the helm, not TIM. Else TIM would have sunk your farkin' ass with a push of a button at the end of the game. >.>

#6: Even if Liara's reasoning made sense, Saving Galaxy > Shepard > Vengeance for Numbnuts. Ignoring the threat to the galaxy is rather stupid. Ignoring her loyalty ( and possibly LI ) to Shepard is rather stupid. Leaving Shepard in Cerb's talons ( When Garrus and Tali both trusted Shep and came on board to watch Shep's back ) is also rather stupid. Especially after she did so much to revive Shepard in the first place.

#7: Oh, and if that laptop is all powerful, how come I'm the one running around hacking things for her. ><

She needs a smack upside the head.....albeit not as hard a one as Ashley deserves. <mutter>

[RayvenQ]

#7: Oh, and if that laptop is all powerful, how come I'm the one running around hacking things for her. ><

She needs a smack upside the head.....albeit not as hard a one as Ashley deserves. <mutter>

Becuse Shep is too dumb to see that he's been made the gopher.

[Gravekeeper]

Becuse Shep is too dumb to see that he's been made the gopher.

Oh I could see it. It was just, oh hey, creds. >.>

I just don't like how the ME1 love interests were so neatly disposed of ( Hell, Ash was practically blown out an airlock writing wise ) when they proved with Tali and Garrus that they could have easily brought them on board.

[lordlundar]

#1: I was being a sarcastic bastard. ( It's kind of my MO, <cough> )

Duly noted.

#2: Dunno about you but I recovered and kept that entire Cerberus database for myself and TIM didn't pick up on that one.

You mean the one where you turn it over to cerebus , the alliance, or keep it? Yeah, I turned it over to the Alliance. Here's the thing, TIM knows you. He spent the last two years (and god knows how much longer before that) knowing your exact details. Think about it, there are references made during your "interview" at the beginning that was well beyond regular access because you were a Spectre. Under any event, with the Reapers breathing down your neck, the information you kept is inconsequential in the grand the scheme of things.

#3: TIM has a rather obvious bone to pick with SB.

Yeah, I doubt he's a big fan of the SB, but Liara has a determination of exposing secrets regardless of the source. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend in this case.

#4: Shepard has ultimate control over the ship's databases. ( Otherwise there's no way you could have ordered them open to Jack. )

Ah yes, Jack. The psycopathic biotic with a hatred toward cerberus. Here's the fun thing, TIM knew Jack that was focused on finding out about her history, and he had no real involvement in it. Apart from wanting to rip Miranda apart for trying to hide the info, Jack calms down considerably after that event. Jack's info hunt was focused on soley about herself. Liara on the other hand has a habit of wanting to destroy the organization entirely. Liara is FAR more of a threat than Jack is.

And if you think for a second that TIM didn't know or approve the decision, then you need to look into the behind the scenes of cerberus a little more. Shepard's on a pretty tight leash, whether s/he knows it or not.

#5: Its implied and noted a few times that the monitoring equipment on board has Miranda at the helm, not TIM. Else TIM would have sunk your farkin' ass with a push of a button at the end of the game. >.>

1) Miranda doesn't answer to you in the grand scheme of things, she answers to TIM. At the end of Jacob's Loyalty Mission, Shepard clearly says that nothing goes on in the ship without TIM's knowledge. The only reason she listens to you is because tactically, you know how to get things done.

2) the Reapers aren't gone, so there's still bigger fish to fry. Eliminating the only one who has destroyed a Reaper is a very stupid thing to do, and TIM is by no means stupid.

#6: Even if Liara's reasoning made sense, Saving Galaxy > Shepard > Vengeance for Numbnuts. Ignoring the threat to the galaxy is rather stupid. Ignoring her loyalty ( and possibly LI ) to Shepard is rather stupid. Leaving Shepard in Cerb's talons ( When Garrus and Tali both trusted Shep and came on board to watch Shep's back ) is also rather stupid. Especially after she did so much to revive Shepard in the first place.

What could she bring? She was a valuable addition more for her knowledge of the Protheans than her skills. She has no archeological knowledge of the collectors and next to Shepard, her knowledge of the reapers is minimal at best. Her biotics are not the strongest by her own admission. (Jack and Samara bring more tactically) As for the leaving Shep in Cerberus' claws? Like you said, Garrus and Tali has Sheperd's back, more so than she could do. As well, only two people are Cerberus on the core team, and only Miranda is actually loyal to the organization. At best, if she screws over Shepard, she'll have a lot of pissed off people on her ass. All Liara can really bring to the mission that isn't covered better is her information network, which is sorely hampered away from her base of operations.

#7: Oh, and if that laptop is all powerful, how come I'm the one running around hacking things for her. ><

Not everything has a single source, and not all sources link directly to each other. Information wars are a funny thing, you have to get the info in your adversary's network while leaving your own secure. That's why it's so tough to bring down someone like the Shadow Broker. S/he knows how to keep the info hidden. That's why you have to hack those terminals. She can't trust her normal sources, she can't do it herself without leaving herself vulnerable, and she certainly can't use any equipment with ties to her.

She needs a smack upside the head.....albeit not as hard a one as Ashley deserves. <mutter>

Liara knows she's not nearly as valuable to the objective this time around, and the only way she could be valuable as a team member would cause her to lose her validity the second she joins up. She knows that the galaxy is in good hands with Shepard on the case and trusts him/her to get the job done.

Ashely though, yeah, she could use a rife but up the side of the head to knock some sense into her.

[Gravekeeper]

I kept it for leverage. -.-

Think about it, there are references made during your "interview" at the beginning that was well beyond regular access because you were a Spectre.

Nothing in the initial interview was deep information of any sort. Your background, military service record and who was KIA was the bulk of it. I can't imagine that's hard info to obtain considering Shepard was practically worshiped as a superhero after the events of ME1 before he died and was swept under the rug by the council.

I imagine his background, military service record and whomever bravely died during his mission are practically on the back of cereal boxes. >.>


Yeah, I doubt he's a big fan of the SB, but Liara has a determination of exposing secrets regardless of the source.

Only in regards to SB, and a determination conveniently penned in for ME2.


Jack's info hunt was focused on soley about herself. Liara on the other hand has a habit of wanting to destroy the organization entirely.

Jack wanted a hit list ( and got it ) and has more reason to hate Cerb then Liara does. Liara on the other hand, her entire motivation is wrapped up in the destruction of SB. She's obviously willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish this regardless of morality or association. Depending on how Shep played it, me thinks Jack would be more dangerous honestly.

Liara fights with information, which, ironically, I think would be easier for TIM to counter considering his position and resources. Jack on the other hand, with Shepard to taxi her around and give her a semblance of tactics would be a biotic a-bomb going off at every Cerb facility you could find the location of. Which is quite a few.

Honestly, the entire crew ( The best and the brightest so to speak ) are extremely dangerous in Shepard's hands. TIM's already taken a huge risk giving them to Shep, Liara isn't going to tip the scale in any way.


Miranda doesn't answer to you in the grand scheme of things, she answers to TIM.

Miranda is easy to win over to your side and practically flips TIM the bird at the end if you play it right. Jacob never came across as really loyal to Cerberus anyhow.


What could she bring?

Considering she helped me kill a Reaper the first time around? Her combat abilities and biotics are nothing to sneeze at and now she's armed with a vast information network and a killer instinct? Hell yes. There's no argument for her being weak compared to the ME2 crew, else Tali and Garrus could fark off too. Miranda and Jack are powerful human biotics. Asari biotics, ala Samara, are always described as being more powerful. I'll take two Samara over a Jack/Samara thanks. >.>

Liara doesn't even acknowledge Tali/Garrus, or visa versa, if you bring them to her office. Bad writers, bad.



That's why you have to hack those terminals.

See: Sarcastic bastard. <cough>

I don't think Liara particularly cares at the moment, she's just a tad obsessed this time around. Hence the kinda weak plot excuse to keep her off the crew. Requiring people to read a comic series they may not even know about to have any clue why Liara seems to be tossing Shepard aside was also kinda weak.

I think the weak writing in this regard comes as a result of trying to make the sequel "friendly" to people that never played the first game. Hence ejecting the love interests, then building a new persona around Garrus and tossing Tali in very early in the game for new players to become acquainted.

Its just that its kinda lame to do it this way. The scenarios that play out for Ash, Kaiden and Liara are fine for new players but there really, really should have been much much more for veteran players of ME1. Its kind of a smack in the face ( Almost literally with Ash >< ) for anyone that played ME1 and was hoping to see an LI plot continue into ME2. Instead of having to wait for DLC or ME3.

Made especially annoying by the Tali romance, which is perhaps the best in ME2 simply because it builds from ME1.

Now we can only hope for DLC, but still kinda lame that it has to come from DLC to begin with.

But at least we are in agreement on the smacking of Ashley. <nods wisely>

[lordlundar]

Meh Agree to disagree at any rate. Under any event, I found my Favorite quote set in the game. It occurs when talking to the detective when you're trying to recruit Samara, bring Garrus and Tali

Shepard: your superiors are sending you to die for no good reason. You have a right to disobey.
Garrus: we can disobey suicidal orders? Why wasn't I told?
Tali: That's about twice a day.

Brought a good laugh to me.:lol:

[LewisLegion]

I’m playing through this time as a complete and utter bastard, with a MaleShep that didn’t romance anyone. Ash was a lot less harsh than I expected her to be (then again, if the Shep is a Shep she loved I can see her being more hurt and angry, regardless of if it’s justified). Liara as well seemed a bit more mellow but unusually happy to see Shepard (which is odd because that particular Shepard was a total ass to her…and everyone else). The ONLY one who seemed to remember that this Shepard was an ass was Tali…man, she was almost HOSTILE the moment Shepard appeared at Freedom’s Progress. I’m surprised icicles didn’t form on her mask.

As for the ongoing Liara debate…yeah, I’m a bit miffed that she was reduced so much in this game. And yes, her whole hostile attitude was a bit off-putting…though less so when I found out some of the motivation behind it. I feel as GK does a bit, that the excuse to keep her off the ship was simply contrived to be an excuse to keep her off the ship. However I will wait for the DLC and even ME3 if need be, to see how Bioware resolves the LI conundrum. And hopefully I’ll be going ‘wow, that’s really awesome’ instead of throwing my controller at my tv.

[Gravekeeper]

I’m playing through this time as a complete and utter bastard, with a MaleShep that didn’t romance anyone. Ash was a lot less harsh than I expected her to be <snip>
.

Yeah, my MaleShep had her as an LI in ME1 and she just goes off on you like a grenade regardless of what you say or do. In fact the more reasonable you try to act the more she tears into you.

Interesting on Tali being hostile. ME characters tend to develop to one degree or another based on whether you're Paragon or Renegade, but Tali was pretty much 100% Paragon regardless of what you said or did. So stands to reason she'd remember and resent you being a dick, hehe.

[LewisLegion]

Yeah, I was kind of surprised about Tali being so short and clearly having her hackles up from the moment Shep walked in the door. Even my room-mates were like...'holy cow, when'd she turn into a holy b----?'

They remembered how sweet she was on my first playthrough with my nice Shep :)

[LewisLegion]

Ok, I gotta be doing SOMETHING wrong.

I finished my second playthrough with my male uber-ass Shep, and I lost two people this time instead of just one.

Tali I knew I was going to lose quite a while before it happened. My Shep, being the jerk-hole he is, presented the evidence to the Conclave of what her father was doing, despite her begging him not to. Boy, was she PISSED. End result…no loyalty and she quite pointedly told me ‘don’t talk to me unless you need something’.

Sure enough, she got a rocket to the face.

The second death surprised me though. Again, I had all upgrades. I sent Grunt as the leader of the secondary team while I brought Jack with me to do the biotic shield through the swarm. My first playthrough I sent Miranda in Grunt’s place and she came through the door shot, but recovered. Grunt came through shot…and died.

The only thing I can think of I might have done is that Shep didn’t let him make his own choices on Tuchanka, stepping in and being an ass instead, and that he mocked their ceremonies and rituals. Perhaps not being allowed to stand up for himself caused him to be less sure of himself and thus resulted in his death? If that’s what caused Grunt to die then I say, kudos to Bioware for integrating things that well and for tying that in.

If not…then I wanna know what the heck I did wrong *ROFL*

[lordlundar]

Yeah, I was kind of surprised about Tali being so short and clearly having her hackles up from the moment Shep walked in the door. Even my room-mates were like...'holy cow, when'd she turn into a holy b----?'

They remembered how sweet she was on my first playthrough with my nice Shep :)

Heh, I took Tali and Liara as my usual squad and Tali always was the hardass of the two. :p


If not…then I wanna know what the heck I did wrong *ROFL*
First one, Tali wasn't loyal
Second one, you made Grunt the fire team leader. A lot of people make that mistake because he's a Krogan and can regenerate.

Okay, here's how it goes:

Ship upgrades - There's 3 that you need to worry about for survival. Shields, Armor, Guns. For every upgrade of those you miss, you lose someone in the INITIAL assault before you land. Who you lose depends on the upgrade and who's on your personal team. The other upgrades do not affect survival chance, but contribute something else. Personal upgrades also do not apply to survival. After the ship lands, those are irrelevant.

Loyalty - Loyalty is required if you have them on their own. If they are not loyal, the only way to save them is to have them on you're immediate team. If you put them into another role, someone is gonna die (usually the disloyal person, but if the biotic is not loyal, you lose one of your squad instead)

Position - Here's where it gets tricky. You need the exact mindset for the role. Anything less will cost a team member, regardless of their loyalty.

Specialist 1 - Tech heavy - Tali or Legion (mordin is a scientist, not heavy in machines, so he doesn't qualify)

Fire Team (both times) - Leadership capability - Miranda, Jacob, Garrus. Yes, they will get shot, but recover if loyal.

Specialist 2 - Biotic heavy - Jack or Samara/Morinth - (despite Miranda's claim to the contrary, only a loyal, strong biotic will be able to pull it off)

Door - Unsure, As I chose not to leave someone there. So far as I know, it only buys you some more time.

Escort - Combat capable - Jacob, Grunt, Garrus (I've heard Thane and Mordin being successful, but it's not constant)

Final team my seem like it's not a factor but it is. All your team members have a special rating referred to as "hold the line". More combat capable members are better off at this, and can offset those who aren't (tali and mordin) Best chance of survival for that is to take your "squishes" (specialists) into the final fight and make sure you have Zaeed from the DLC and have him loyal.

A final note, after you destroy the reaper, there's a chance your squad members can die. If they are Loyal, it's very low, if they are not, then it's very high. As well, this info will raise the chance of survival, not guarantee it. The only binary ones (either yes or no) are the ship upgrades.

(One other thing, is it just me, or when Joker hands you the datapad, the look on Shepard's face is basically saying "bring it, I'm ready for you"?)

[LewisLegion]

Yeah, I knew Tali was going to die a long time before I went into the final station simply because I knew I had ‘flubbed’ her loyalty quest. I purposefully put her as the first tech specialist knowing she would die because…hey, my Shep was an ass. Grunt dying, however, TOTALLY took me by surprise.

Each time I’ve played I’ve sent Zaeed to escort the crew back (made it just fine both times) and had the majority of the group hold off the door (all made it through just fine both times).

And yes, I LOVE that look at the end. Totally ‘bring it!’

[Gravekeeper]

Ouch, ya, Grunt will get people killed. He is *not *leadership material. What lundar said, its Miranda, Jacob or Garrus, period.

Thane works as an escort. For me anyhow. I always go with Samara for the shield and Legion for the vents. I also always pick "we better hurry" over "someone has to hold the door". Not sure if that matters or not but I'm not screwing with the formula.

No casualties so thus far.

[Geek King]

Ok, finished my first run though of the game, so I can safely join the thread. :p

Played a FemShep imported from the first game that I apparently made look remarkably like Alyson Hannigan without meaning to. According to friends watching me play.

I played Paragon, like the first game, and made it through with all intact first time. Probably because I like to stick my nose in every corner when I play. Last mission I ran with Tali as the tunnel runner, Jack as the biotic, Miranda leading the other group both times, had Garrus lead the team to hold the door since he has experience in last stands, Jacob on escort, and took Mordin and Tali against the Reaper so that all my combat heavies would be on the line. For added awesomeness, I finished off the reaper with a Widow sniper round to the eyeball. Does HUGE damage, as I had at least a quarter bar left.

Nice touches: Mini mission with Joker and EDI saving the ship from the Collectors, and Joker, of all people, holding the Normandy's door with an assault rifle. My roommate and I actually cheered out loud for Joker at that point.

[Nurian]

My FemShep is staying loyal to Liara, but I noticed something:

Is it just me or does Moridin seem disappointed that she wasn't interested either?

[LewisLegion]

Mordin loves to tease you that you have a crush on him if you keep coming to talk to him. And yes, I sensed a tad bit of disappointment :)

His 'love' advice was hysterical. My renegade Male Shep was romancing Miranda and Mordin's comment about Cerberus planting 'bugs' and the implied...um...location of the bugs was...well, we laughed.

A lot.

Ahem.

[Gravekeeper]

His 'love' advice was hysterical. My renegade Male Shep was romancing Miranda and Mordin's comment about Cerberus planting 'bugs' and the implied...um...location of the bugs was...well, we laughed.


With Tali it was Quarian erogenous zones and lotions or ointments to reduce discomfort. With Thane its, and I quote, "prolonged oral contact may lead to hallucinations".

[Salted Grump]

With Tali it was Quarian erogenous zones and lotions or ointments to reduce discomfort. With Thane its, and I quote, "prolonged oral contact may lead to hallucinations".

And with Garrus (if you're playing femshep) it's 'topical ointments. Chafing.' and 'Differing amino layouts. Do not... ah, ingest.'

Deliberately did a 'Kill 'em all' ending; kinda sad, but watching Joker just verbally lay into the Illusive Man was catharatic, to say the least. Now to do a NG+ on insane difficulty and get away with everyone coming out alive.

[LewisLegion]

Deliberately did a 'Kill 'em all' ending; kinda sad, but watching Joker just verbally lay into the Illusive Man was catharatic, to say the least. Now to do a NG+ on insane difficulty and get away with everyone coming out alive.

Ooh, how'd you manage that? Just didn't do the loyalty quests? Did your Shep get out alive?

[Salted Grump]

Ooh, how'd you manage that? Just didn't do the loyalty quests? Did your Shep get out alive?

No loyalty, no ship upgrades. And Nope, Shep gets it just before getting to the Normandy if there's nobody else alive.

Leaves pretty much Joker alive from the first game, unless you count the cameo characters.

[LewisLegion]

Teehee! I'm going to have to try that...just for giggles :)

[Salted Grump]

Don' forget to Mismanage, like sending Grunt off to play 'tech infiltrator' and not sparing anyone for the Escort of the crew, and having a crappy biotic for the shield section (of a non-biotic, if you can get away with it)

[lordlundar]

Don' forget to Mismanage, like sending Grunt off to play 'tech infiltrator' and not sparing anyone for the Escort of the crew, and having a crappy biotic for the shield section (of a non-biotic, if you can get away with it)

Well, if you want to go all out, sure. :p

But yeah, if you want to go for an all death thing, then just use the info I put up earlier as a guide in what NOT to do. No survival ship upgrades guarantees 3 deaths before the Normandy even lands. The tech specialist and first fire team are goners if you don't choose right and don't have the loyalty. Biotic specialist will kill off one at least, 2 possibly (haven't confirmed if you have a non loyal hybrid for the role) second fire team loses their leader with a bad choice, escort I'm unknown on (I've herd success from a variety of choices) but a non-loyal Mordin should be a quick death there (in theory) Door guard, you might want to save tali for, as she's considered a "squishy" and finally, piss around on the way to the fight. Should finish off anyone remaining not on your squad. If loyalty is down, you might lose both your squad mates, leaving shepard alone for the run.

Mind you, this is all theory.:D

Additional note related to my prior post: I think the "hold the line" value is a minimum number that needs to be attained to avoid losing people, either an average or cumulative, I'm not sure. Running with that theory, having a door person would hurt the chance of survival. But once again, it's theory.