Help... please.

[Antisocial_Worker]

My boyfriend moves in tomorrow and I'm terrified. I don't even know where to start on why.

I'll try to make a very long story short and say that I've had horrible luck with men, to the point that I finally tried dating outside my "type." There was this guy who'd been wanting to get my attention for years and I finally gave him his chance after numerous rejections. He's spent about 20 days total here with me where I live up from where he lives in another state. He's in love. When he's around, so am I. He treats me like royalty. My friends love him. When he's away, I grieve as though he's never coming back because that's what always happened before.

Then there's the three things that keep hitting me in the face. Any one of them I could possibly deal with but all three are the perfect storm to drive me straight insane. First, he's very light skinned when I prefer dark-skinned guys. Second, he's very overweight -- which I have problems with because my parents were both very overweight until the diabetes started killing them. Third, he's horrible in bed.

People keep telling me I can fix the weight and the bad in bed issues, and he seems willing to work on them too. But, oh God... I know it makes me sound shallow, but I'm literally losing my mind here. He's sold off everything he owns to move up here, and he's switched schools to one here where I am.

I've been through more pain than just about anybody I know when it comes to relationships and now when it looks like I might actually get everything I ever wanted, even when it's not in the package I want, I'm losing it.

That's it. I'm rambling. Maybe I'll make more sense later. Help.

[r2cagle]

Sounds like you're freaked out because reality is not living up to your fantasies.

That's okay. It's hard to let go of those things we wished and dreamed for. The difference is recognizing that even though this fantasy is something we always wanted, reality is what we've got.

The trick is to make your reality more important than your fantasies. Great guy, genuine caring love, and someone who is willing to give 100% effort to your relationship. True, reality could turn out to be a dud, but if you focus on what you do have, and stop focusing on what you don't have, you'll find you're able to stay centered and happier in the long run. By staying and focusing in the 'now', you'll also circumvent past experiences from wreaking havoc on your mental health and well-being.

That said, it also doesn't hurt to seek professional assistance to help sort out some of the more paralyzing fears.

[HYHYBT]

Congratulations!

He's in love. When he's around, so am I.And apparently, he's going to be around a lot. Sounds like a good thing, even if the sex is lousy :)

[Aethian]

Weight can be worked on...

Sex can be worked on...

Feeling in love and feeling loved? Damn girl keep that close. I'm seeing a 3/3 here.

[Exaspera]

Good luck to you both! :)

[Plaidman]

Feeling in love and feeling loved? Damn girl keep that close. I'm seeing a 3/3 here.

*cough* he a dude, not a girl *cough*

XD Joking aside, it's up to you. So far, you love everything about him cept his skin color (silly XD), weight which can be worked with eventally.

As for the sex, can't help you with that. My experence of it is nothing short of me terrible.

[Aethian]

Ummmmmmm *blinks*


Errrr Sorry HH *blushes*

[Antisocial_Worker]

I appreciate the advice.

I think part of what bothers me is that he and I bicker all the time, and I'm worried that won't ever change even as time passes and we grow together. I'm also worried that he'll get tired of me. Living with one another is a big change from sweet talks on the phone.

And it doesn't help that there are two people I find much more attractive who would love to date me...

This is a mess, but my love life always has been.

Edit: One other fun thing messing all of this up is the fact that I turn 30 this year and I just feel like I'm running out of time to find anyone.

[Seshat]

Weight - your doctor can verify whether he has health issues which are affecting his ability to lose weight. Some of those can have caused the weight gain in the first place.

Sexual prowess - definitely can be worked on.

Colouration - in my experience, that becomes less of an issue as time passes, and you love the person for themselves, ALL of themselves.

Bickering - if you are both willing to work on communication skills with each other, that will fade. If you don't, it will get worse.
What worked for me was 'okay, hang on, let's stop for a moment and try rephrasing things.' And we'd both struggle to understand what the other was REALLY trying to say, rather than the words they were using. Everyone has pet phrasings that to them, mean X, but other people hear as meaning Y. Yes, even you, HH. :)

Running out of time - no. The Great Disney-Perfect Love doesn't exist, not even in Disney movies. Sleeping Beauty married the first guy who kissed her, Cinderella just hung around waiting for a rich dude to carry her off, Ariel gave up her family and half of her anatomy for a guy who couldn't decide between a redhead and a brunette, Belle keeps making excuses for a guy who constantly yells at her and verges on physically abusive...

You have an opportunity for love here. Maybe he is The Perfect Guy who will stay with you till death do you part. Maybe it'll only work out for a year or two, or a decade or two. But there's no way to know other than to try it. And even if you do part eventually, you will have had a love. And you'll always have had Paris. Or Asheville, NC, anyway.

[Antisocial_Worker]

Come what may, I fly down to Florida today to help him move across two states to be with me.

[Taboo]

Good luck!

Work on the communication first. Make sure that you have a way to 'fight fair' even when you do argue, because otherwise you won't be able to deal with any of the other issues. Other than that, you've already gotten some good advice here about the weight issues etc.

[Magpie]

I know I'm eventually going to sound like a broken record, but going for couples' counselling is a wonderful way to deal with communications difficulties. Not necessarily that you don't both have good techniques, but going together helps, because then you have a common ground, and know what the other person expects, etc. I'm sure there's someone in your area who offers basically premarital counselling without calling it that. (The basic "here's how to live with someone else without killing each other" stuff).

[Antisocial_Worker]

Well, he's here now and I don't dare let on how upset I am. This guys treats me like a king, so why can't I embrace it and let him do it...?

I think it just comes down to the fact that I'm not physically attracted to him. At all. It's bothering me to the point of obsession. I can't stand this. I also can't stand that he sold off his entire life, left his apartment, and left all his friends behind so he can come up here and be with me. Christ...

Yesterday as we drove back, I was haunted by men who were better looking. I saw them driving trucks and riding motorcycles, or walking by the road.

I don't know what the problem is... I didn't used to feel this way about him. It's almost as though if I don't find someone who contrasts me completely, even in skin color, I've somehow failed. Or it's as though after all I've been through in my search for a good relationship, I feel like I'm entitled to someone who is perfect in every way, including looks.

And then of course it doesn't help that two other men who are much better looking are interested in me. I might actually go after one, but I feel so incredibly guilty about uprooting him and bringing him here. One of his friends sobbed as we said goodbye. What can you do in the face of that? You suffer silently, that's what, and you realize that you're suffering pointlessly as well. To reject a black man, which is what you've always wanted, just because he's not "black enough?" Really? Logically, I know it's idiotic.

[HYHYBT]

I hate to ask, but how did it get to the point where "he sold off his entire life," etc., if you're not sure? Or were you more certain before?

[Antisocial_Worker]

I hate to ask, but how did it get to the point where "he sold off his entire life," etc., if you're not sure? Or were you more certain before?

I was more certain before.

[Jangles the Moon Monkey]

If you've been badly hurt in the past several times, it sounds to me like you're just waiting to be hurt again and are trying to stop that from happening with the bickering, the doubts. You're scared to let yourself be happy and it's made worse by the fact that he's moved so far to be with you.

I don't really have any advice for you. I wasn't quite as bad when I met my now husband but I confessed to him how I felt and he just hugged me and told me he cared too much about me to let me sabotage our relationship. The problems I felt didn't seem so bad after that. I hope you manage to sort it out.

[Eric the Grey]

I was more certain before.

Sounds like a case of the jitters to me. It happens to a lot of people.

As to looking at other men, that's natural. Bot D and myself look at other people (she at men, me at women) but there is nobody I'd rather be with than her, and for some reason, she'd rather be with me.

Try to calm down and let things ride for a while. Once you get it out of your system, things will be better.

Whatever happens, best of luck with it.


:cool: Eric the Grey

[HYHYBT]

I was more certain before.

Entirely understandable.

[Amina516]

Cold feet seems like to me.

Please give it a chance. Someone who treats you soo good shouldnt be discounted on the basis of looks (since the others can be worked on.)

Honestly (and he knows this) i was not attracted to my husband when I first met him. Not that he was ugly, just nothing like my type. He chased me so hard that when I finally turned to him, I was already in love.

Give it time maybe?

[Andara Bledin]

Well, he's here now and I don't dare let on how upset I am. This guys treats me like a king, so why can't I embrace it and let him do it...?
Because you're normal. You're afraid that it's all too perfect, and are looking for the coming disaster. It's normal, and you can work on ignoring it; I know I have.
I think it just comes down to the fact that I'm not physically attracted to him.
Yesterday as we drove back, I was haunted by men who were better looking.
I don't know what the problem is... I didn't used to feel this way about him.
Have you ever looked into maybe a little personal counseling?

I'm no psych of any stripe, but it sounds like you have a certain fear of failure, so you're almost working on a self-fulfilling prophecy of doing just that.

My brother was like this in school: he'd do well until he realized he was doing well, and to avoid other people being let down by his supposedly inevitable failure, he'd sabotage his own success to ensure that nobody would ever count on him to succeed. He's 37, now, and his whole life has followed this self-destructive pattern.
What can you do in the face of that? You suffer silently, that's what, and you realize that you're suffering pointlessly as well.
Don't be silent. Fears fester in silence.

If you're not comfortable talking to him about your issues, find someone you can talk to. Hopefully, someone who will listen and try to work you through it.

As for the sex issues you mentioned: I haven't actually had regular sex in about a decade (unresolved medical issue not on my end). I've been in a relationship during that entire time, though. Let me just say that there can be a whole hell of a lot of fun to be had in figuring out how to work with what you've both got going for you, and getting in practice on what might not be working so well as you'd like. ;) :devil:

^-.-^

[Antisocial_Worker]

I'll try to post some thoughts later when I have more time and privacy. Long story short though, I was doing okay yesterday and then we had a conversation that sent me right back down through the cellar hole.

[Antisocial_Worker]

I have my moments when I'm okay with everything, although I keep thinking about the other guys who are interested in me. I wonder "what if?"

It's like being caught in a storm and it just rages on and on. Why can't I be happier? Why can't I be happy at all? I don't get it.

I'm very appreciative of everyone who has left their help or advice. It's been a real lifeline.

[trailerparkmedic]

It's like being caught in a storm and it just rages on and on. Why can't I be happier? Why can't I be happy at all? I don't get it.

Is it just the guy or are there other things in your life (or even your entire life) that you feel this hopeless about? That sounds exactly like something I would say when I'm depressed.

[Antisocial_Worker]

Is it just the guy or are there other things in your life (or even your entire life) that you feel this hopeless about? That sounds exactly like something I would say when I'm depressed.

Pretty much it's just this guy. I have wanted and wanted and wanted this -- a serious, stable, committed relationship -- for my entire adult life and now that I have it, I don't want it. I obsess over his flaws and convince myself I've made a mistake, and that he can't be the one for me. But yet, because I was sure before, sure enough to convince him to sell off his life and move two states up to me, I'm stuck with him. What kind of a monster would I be if sent him away at this point?

[trailerparkmedic]

Give it some time and see what happens. See if the flaws drive you crazier or blend into the background. Make an effort to not compare him to some idealized image of perfect. What originally drew you to him? Did you feel something before that is gone now?

My opinon? I can't tell if you've got cold feet and are trying to sabotage a good thing, or if you're doing what I've done and all of a sudden realized something is horribly, horribly wrong. When I've had a "What the HELL am I thinking?" moment in a relationship, it's because I've been trying to rationalize something and after awhile denial just doesn't cut it anymore. It happened with major events, like my husband cheating on me, and I tried for months to rationalize that he had changed (even though I knew that he was still sleeping around), that I needed to save the marriage, etc. After a few months, I realized I was being played for a fool and I moved out that night. From what you've said, I'm leaning towards cold feet & self sabotage.

Think of it this way--what will a few months hurt? He's already picked up and moved and that's not something that is easy to undo. Give yourself a deadline, maybe 3 months or whatever sounds ok to you. It gives you a chance to figure out what's really going on. When I met my fiance, I wasn't really attracted to him but I'd driven pretty far and I was hungry so I wasn't going to walk out without eating dinner. I had fun on our date, but wasn't sure if it was "friends" fun or "boyfriend" fun... so I decided to give it a little time and see where we were in a month. When we moved in together we had a really, really rough patch--I'm still surprised we didn't break up. There was one point where I was considering leaving but I didn't have the money for a new apartment so I decided I would save up some money for a deposit before making any decisions. A few months later I had the money but I didn't want to leave anymore and we're still together. I will admit that I can be very impulsive, especially when I'm angry or scared, so maybe that's why it's good that I've given things time to settle, but I don't regret anything I've done after waiting to figure out what I'm really thinking.

Sorry for the wall of text and I hope some of it makes sense. Now I'm laughing because my fiance doesn't know any of the stuff above but a bunch of internet people do!

[Antisocial_Worker]

I don't mind the wall of text. What's going on here is that for a solid week my brain has been shrieking at me that I have made a horrible, horrible mistake. That's what it comes down to.

[Antisocial_Worker]

To top it all off, there's a guy who is interested in me, and who I find interesting... He would like to start something up. What do I do?

[HYHYBT]

Unless you've decided to dump the other guy, tell him you're taken!

[Taboo]

Unless you've decided to dump the other guy, tell him you're taken!

Seconded.

Look, you made this first guy move all the way out there to be with you. If he's treating you right, which it sounds like he is, you owe him at least a solid try at things. I would give it 1-2 months and see how it goes. Maybe you just aren't as attracted as you thought you were, and maybe it was a bad mistake - but it's not fair to him to write things off a few days after he's gotten there. Does he even know you're having doubts?

[Antisocial_Worker]

Does he even know you're having doubts?

No, he doesn't, although the other guy does. It's like I'm trying to nurture a backup plan.

[smileyeagle1021]

As someone who has been there and done that (including the whole being in love without having that much physical attraction... something I still deal with), let me say that the best thing you can do is to just let go and let life take you where it will. I was nervous as hell about my BF moving in back in August, but we're still going strong, approaching our one year anniversary, and not looking back with any regrets.

[Solumina]

You need to remember 2 things. 1) You wanted this guy to move in with you so there at least was something real there. 2) The only thing that you owe anybody is honesty, yourself included.

It sounds to me like you are doing something that is extremely common for people in their teens and early 20’s but based on your past relationships it is still something that I would consider very likely to be the case. The relationship is over and you don’t know how to end it because nobody did anything wrong. This happens a lot. People who haven’t been in many healthy relationships feel that in order for a relationship to end someone must have done something wrong but that really is not the case, if the relationship is causing you excessive stress (and it is very clear that you are having some major emotional issues right now) and it doesn’t make you happy then you need to sit down with someone (perhaps a professional) and talk about this so that you can figure out if there is even a chance of things working or if you would just be prolonging the inevitable and causing even more pain for everyone involved.

I know that the guy packed up his life to be with you but nothing is guaranteed in a relationship. You need to figure things out for yourself (but in the mean time stay away from temptation), nobody else knows everything that is going on in your head so nobody else can know the right choice for you to make. You should also give the guy a heads up that you are a little unsure of things right now that way he can try and work on things plus he wont be completely blindsided if/when you do break up.



Just as another little thought, here is a question that should tell you a lot: Do you want to date other people or are you just interested in fooling around with them?




*I apologies if this is a little intense and authoritative as I’m new and contradicting a lot of other poster’s opinions, plus I don' really know the first thing about you so I am sorry if I’m out of line, but this happens to be my field of studies and I have seen/studies quite a few similar situation so that is why my viewpoint is so strongly worded*

[Jester]

Okay, time for me to weigh in.

Before I start, I have to warn you HH--as you probably know, I don't pull punches, I don't beat around the bush, and I don't sugarcoat. I am going to give you my honest opinions on the matter. If you are not ready for such brutal honesty, don't read further. Go do something else for a while. But when you are ready, come back, sit down with your favorite drink and/or snack, and strap yourself in.

Because damn it, I have a few things to say.

I'll try to make a very long story short and say that I've had horrible luck with men, to the point that I finally tried dating outside my "type."

I find it interesting that you don't seem to see the correlation with "horrible luck with men" and the fact that you keep going after the same "type." It's like my one friend who has horrible luck with men, mostly because her "type" tends to be douchebags. Her latest flame, though, is more dorky than douchy, and he seems to be pretty okay. If your love life sucks and you keep dating the same type of person, that is Life telling you, "Hey, dumbass--try something different. The Sum Dum Guy special just ain't workin' for you!"


He's in love. When he's around, so am I. He treats me like royalty. My friends love him. When he's away, I grieve as though he's never coming back because that's what always happened before.

This is something that, as a diehard romantic, I yearn for. So naturally, I hate your guts. ;)

Then there's the three things that keep hitting me in the face. Any one of them I could possibly deal with but all three are the perfect storm to drive me straight insane.

Not one of them is worth piss in a bucket, dude. You are making far more out of them then they actually are.

First, he's very light skinned when I prefer dark-skinned guys.
I know it makes me sound shallow, but I'm literally losing my mind here.

Over THIS? Yes, it does make you sound shallow. Not to mention superficial and lame. Get over it. Of all your concerns about and issues with this guy, this is bar far the most idiotic. As an example, I have a major weakness for girls with long hair. My ex-fiance (my ONLY fiance) had short hair. You know what I did? I got over it. Why? Because she was a wonderful person and was the only woman to ever make me feel more like the King than the Jester. So I brushed the whole hair thing aside as the petty minor thing it was. As you should do with the dude's complexion.

NEXT!

Second, he's very overweight -- which I have problems with because my parents were both very overweight until the diabetes started killing them.

Somewhat superficial, but an understandable concern. He is doing to himself what your parents did that drove them to ill health. Naturally this is a concern for you. You should share this concern with him and let him know that you are concerned for his health, and explain about your parents and what happened to them, and what that put you through. If you make it clear it is out of caring for him, he should understand, and perhaps you can even convince him to start addressing the issue.

NEXT!

Third, he's horrible in bed.

Superficial? Sure. A worthy concern? Absolutely. Because physical intimacy is part of romance. Not the only part, certainly. But definitely a part. This, however, can be worked on. For one to be a good student, one needs a good teacher. So.....teach him.

I've been through more pain than just about anybody I know when it comes to relationships and now when it looks like I might actually get everything I ever wanted, even when it's not in the package I want, I'm losing it.

You're "losing it"? Because a dude who cares about you, practically worships you, who you adore, is pale, fat, and lame in bed? Are these concerns? The second two, yes, of course. But they are merely concerns. They are not insurmountable obstacles that requires superhuman abilities to overcome. And frankly, if you're "losing it," it has nothing to do with anything about HIM. The issue is with YOU. Your insecurities about relationships. Your ingrained belief that because all the other relationships in your life went to shit, this one will as well. And because of this, you are making this belief into a self-fulfilling prophecy. You are sabotaging what, by your own description, may be the best relationship you've ever had. You are letting the dipshits you dated before ruin this relationship as neatly as they ruined the ones they had with you. Your current boyfriend can't do anything about that, other than to be supportive of you as you struggle through this. The only person who CAN do anything about it is YOU. So, in the words of one of my favorite movies,

"YOU....MUST....CHILL!"

Seriously, dude, relax. Stop stressing out over this shit. There is far more world-shattering stuff in life worth stressing out over than this crap. And deep down, I think you know that, too.

I think part of what bothers me is that he and I bicker all the time, and I'm worried that won't ever change even as time passes and we grow together.

Is it bickering, or is it fighting? There is a huge difference, after all. Many couples with healthy relationships bicker all the time. I bickered constantly with my ex-fiance, to the point where people around us at the bar would start backing away, thinking we were close to drawing knives on each other. We weren't. That is just how our personalities interacted. And sometimes the bickering was more than just silly word play, but actual disagreements. But we worked through those, because we were open and honest with each other.

If, however, this is fighting--and I don't mean physical, mind you, just verbal fighting as opposed to bickering--that may be more serious, and something that would need to be addressed.

My opinion? Your insecurities and doubts are causing many of these bickering sessions. Maybe if you told him some of your fears and doubts, let him know what you are going through, that would lessen your stress, allow him to show his support for you, and actually lessen the bickering itself.


I'm also worried that he'll get tired of me. Living with one another is a big change from sweet talks on the phone.

Yes it is. But your worry is more of the aforementioned insecurities that you have carried with you from your past bad relationships. Let...those....GO.

And it doesn't help that there are two people I find much more attractive who would love to date me...

No, it doesn't help. It tests you. And it all goes back to that one saying, that character is not how we act when things are good, but how we act when things are bad. You are worried about this relationship because it is showing signs of actual success, which scares the hell out of you. And because of that, you are finding yourself attracted to other men, as a sort of security blanket. I would bet several beers that the guys you are attracted to are your normal "type." You know the kind....the same guys that caused you so much pain and misery in your past relationships. Yeah, those jackasses.

So be strong and actually attempt to make THIS relationship work. Don't jump off of a yacht just to swim to a dinghy, just because you see a few scratches in the yacht.


Edit: One other fun thing messing all of this up is the fact that I turn 30 this year and I just feel like I'm running out of time to find anyone.

I say this from the bottom of my heart: Shut the fuck up! Seriously, cork that pie hole before you spew more garbage out of it. :lol:

Dude, I turn 40 in 17 days. I am single and have never been married. I have been engaged once, and seven years later, I still don't know why she left me. I have had a string of wacky, nutty, and sometimes even criminal girlfriends, some more successful than others. But I don't feel like I'm "running out of time." (Well, not usually. Only the occasional moment. And it passes.) And to be blunt, you are a guy dating guys, so it's not like you are worrying about your "biological clock."

Look, I understand the anxiety over this. I do. In my family, I am the only one in my generation that has never been married, out of nine of us, between my sisters, stepsiblings, and cousins. Of course, three of those ended in divorce, and two resulted in miserable marriages that are still going. Add that to the fact that I made a conscious decision years ago to enjoy life and make the best out of it, and always try to find the positive in something, rather than taking the easy road of finding the negative, and you'll see why I am rolling my eyes at your above comment.

You need to realize that the person who most directly affects your happiness on this earth is not any guy you are ever going to date. That person is YOU. And no boyfriend can ever bring you happiness if you are not willing to find happiness in yourself and for yourself.

Well, he's here now and I don't dare let on how upset I am. This guys treats me like a king, so why can't I embrace it and let him do it...?

Because of the aforementioned insecurities. As I said above, I think you should talk to him. Maybe not tell him everything you told us, but definitely tell him about the bad relationships in your past, about your fears, about your insecurities, and about your concerns about him and the relationship. If he really is royalty, if he really cares about you as much as you say, he will do what he can to help you through it. Even if he is a bit miffed by what you say. And I am a firm believer that merely telling him all of this and getting it off your chest will itself alleviate much of the stress it is causing you, and (as someone else said about their own situation), make you see these things as less serious than you viewed them before you let them out.

I think it just comes down to the fact that I'm not physically attracted to him. At all. It's bothering me to the point of obsession. I can't stand this. I also can't stand that he sold off his entire life, left his apartment, and left all his friends behind so he can come up here and be with me.

The first part is normal, and it's those pesky insecurities playing on you. You see this guy as being "too good to be true," so you are finding flaws in him. I can honestly tell you that many times when I've been dating someone, I find them less attractive than other people do. Why? Because they showed interest in me. How could an attractive person do that? (Luckily for me, I have for the most part moved past that particular issue.)
Yesterday as we drove back, I was haunted by men who were better looking. I saw them driving trucks and riding motorcycles, or walking by the road.

Of course you were. Why? As you yourself put it, you are obsessing about his looks. So....stop obsessing. Relax. Chill. Just because the grass may be greener on the other side doesn't mean the yard isn't infested with weeds and covered in dog shit.

I don't know what the problem is... I didn't used to feel this way about him.

See "insecurities" and "fears" above.

Or it's as though after all I've been through in my search for a good relationship, I feel like I'm entitled to someone who is perfect in every way, including looks.

Sorry pal. I'm not into guys.

Seriously though, no one is fucking perfect. No one. As much as I speak glowingly about my ex-fiance, lord knows she had her issues. Not issue. ISSUES. She was a neurotic drunken drug-taking coffee-dependent wack job with some serious intimacy issue, and at times she was just downright aggravating on so many levels. Not to mention her British condescension of so many things American. She was hardly perfect. She was just perfect....for me. Accepting someone's imperfections is part of a relationship. If you can't do that, then get used to one night stands and douchebag boyfriends who take advantage of you.

And then of course it doesn't help that two other men who are much better looking are interested in me.

So fucking what? So FUCKING what? So some hot dudes are interested in you. Besides being beefcake, in what way are they superior to your boyfriend? My guess is you don't have the faintest idea, you just are hot for them because they're hot. So what? That, my friends, is the bullshit self-defeating thinking that got you so many of those past relationships that you have described in such rotten terms.

I might actually go after one, but I feel so incredibly guilty about uprooting him and bringing him here.

First of all, if you actually go after one of those other guys, don't ever expect me to bother offering you any sympathy or advice ever again. You have a great thing, you know you have a great thing, and you are willing to torpedo that for a roll in the hay with some douchebag pretty boy?

Look, if your current relationship isn't what you want, then find a way to end it, with all the shit that that will entail, and THEN go after the other guys. But to do so while you are still WITH this dude? Beyond deplorable. The rancid vomit in the alley behind the dive bar things that that is disgusting.

With all the guy has given up for you, you owe him more than that. You owe him better than that. If you really feel that this relationship has failed (and frankly, from some of the things you have said, it doesn't sound like it has), then break it to him, break up with him, apologize to him, weather whatever verbal abuse he heaps on you for it (if he does), send him on his way, and then diddle the local Hot Guys.

To reject a black man, which is what you've always wanted, just because he's not "black enough?" Really? Logically, I know it's idiotic.

I was thinking "beyond idiotic" myself.

I have my moments when I'm okay with everything, although I keep thinking about the other guys who are interested in me. I wonder "what if?"

Very undestandable, and very normal. I hate to keep bringing up the ex-fiance, but she is a great example from my life that I can use, so I will keep bringing her up to make my points. When I was engaged to her, it was without question or exaggeration the happiest I have ever been. Period. And I still had flirty conversations with pretty women that went something like this:

JESTER: "Are you single?"
HOT CHICK: "Yes."
JESTER: "I wish I was."

Though she was never around to hear these comments (and to be fair, I only uttered them when I was performing magic for these women, and I am just naturally flirtatious in my act), the fact that I actually said these things was one of the biggest regrets I had from that relationship. I still hate the fact that I said them. Sure, I was having second thoughts. And these women WERE hot. But after she was gone, I realized that no, I hadn't wished I was single. And there were times when the stupid superstitious part of me thought that uttering that "wish" is what caused her to leave. I knew that wasn't the case, but I felt so bad about saying it that a small part of me did believe that that was what caused her to leave.

Why can't I be happier? Why can't I be happy at all? I don't get it.

Short answer: Because you won't allow yourself to be, because you don't think you deserve it, and/or you believe that this relationship is too good to be true, even with the flaws you mentioned, so you are torpedoing it in an effort to prove yourself right.

Long answer: See my diatribe above.

Pretty much it's just this guy. I have wanted and wanted and wanted this -- a serious, stable, committed relationship -- for my entire adult life and now that I have it, I don't want it.

Are you sure you don't want it? Or are you just trying to convince yourself of that, to justify whatever you do to wreck this whole thing? Look, you either want it or you don't. From the glowing things you said about the guy, I would guess you DO want it. You just are having trouble accepting that you HAVE it.

What kind of a monster would I be if sent him away at this point?

Honestly, you'd be kind of a shithead. But, if the relationship IS over, if you really are convinced that there is no future here--and personally I think you're fooling yourself if you believe that at this point, so early on--then it would be better and kinder of you to send him packing now rather than later, after things get bitter. Which, by the way, they WILL if you don't address these self-doubts and inner fears. And I mean for both this relationship and any future ones.

What's going on here is that for a solid week my brain has been shrieking at me that I have made a horrible, horrible mistake. That's what it comes down to.

Tell your brain to shut the fuck up. Duct tape its mouth shut and beat it over the head with a frying pan to shut it up. Then relax and give this shit an actual, honest chance. Which frankly, I don't think you have.

To top it all off, there's a guy who is interested in me, and who I find interesting... He would like to start something up. What do I do?

If you're a good guy, you resist temptation and work at what you have in front of you now, not what Could Be.

If you're an asshole, you go do the other guy.

No, he doesn't, although the other guy does. It's like I'm trying to nurture a backup plan.

It's not "like" you're trying to nurture a backup plan. You ARE nurturing a backup plan. That is exactly what you are doing.

The amusing thing is this: the backup plan is for if...no, excuse me, to use your line of thinking, it's for WHEN your current relationship goes in the crapper. But the backup plan, if you act on it, will probably be the very thing that sends your current relationship into the crapper to begin with!

As I said at the beginning, I don't pull punches. I have spent probably over an hour typing this all up, and I type very fast! You asked for advice, and I have given you the best I have. But the next move is not mine. Nor is it your boyfriend's. It's not even the other guy you're interested in or any other Hot Guy you happen to see giving you The Eye.

If you want to take control of your life, the next move is YOURS.

[Green_Fairy]

i agree with everything jester just said. the man's a genius, i swear. that said, let me tell a story:

i had shit luck with relationships. always went for the same type. then i got in contact with The Boy while he was in iraq. he was the opposite of most of the guys i had dated. after a little more than a month of talking, he asked me to move in with him. i moved over 2,000 miles to be with him. i was scared. he was scared. we both had major doubts. we both checked out and flirted with other people. and we're open and honest about all of this.
about a week after we moved in, i broke down and told him how scared i was. he admitted that he was freaking out, too. his marriage had just ended and he was terrified that i was going to cheat on him. hell, i'm terrified that i'm going to cheat on him.
but we tell each other everything. all our fears, our insecurities, our worries. it's all out there. and we're stronger for it.

what i'm saying is talk to him. he's probably just as scared as you are, if not more. moving for someone is insanely hard. but it can also pay off in ways you never expect. if you work on your insecurities, like everyone's been saying, you'll be better off for it. if if it doesn't work out with him, it'll leave you better prepared for the next guy. but give this one a chance.

and for the love of all things fuzzy, stay away from temptation. i know it's hard. trust me, i know. but if you have something on the back burner, you're more likely to let what's on the front burner boil over and be ruined. focus on what you have. not what you don't. all that glitters isn't gold. and sometimes, a plain rock can have something beautiful hidden inside.

[Jester]

i agree with everything jester just said. the man's a genius, i swear.

While I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment, feel absolutely free to tell all your young single cute female friends that. :eyewaggle:

if you have something on the back burner, you're more likely to let what's on the front burner boil over and be ruined.

Great cooking analogy! (And I'm supposedly the genius?)

all that glitters isn't gold. and sometimes, a plain rock can have something beautiful hidden inside.

More to the point of that analogy, just because something is pretty doesn't mean it is what you need or want. Gold is very pretty, but as a soft metal, it is virtually useless to build anything with. Concrete and steel, while not nearly as pretty, form great foundations for building strong, long-lasting structures. Some people would rather have a pretty house, even if they know there is a good chance a slight breeze will knock it over. The smart people get the strong houses, even if they may not be as pretty.

(looking at above analogy) Okay, maybe I am a genius! :lol:

[Antisocial_Worker]

First let me say that I appreciate everyone's time and the effort taken to weigh in on this. I appreciate it very much, and I want to thank you all.

That being said, as soon as I have the privacy to respond to all of this, I will. At the moment, unfortunately I don't. I may have some time on Wednesday or Thursday though.

Thanks again.

[Antisocial_Worker]

Okay... Finally it would seem I have a bit of privacy.

I don't think I can address everyone's individual pieces of advice one by one, so I'll just say that I think I may have nailed down what it is that sent me off the deep end. First off, let me also say that I do understand that my "big 3" complaints -- he's too fat, he's too light-skinned, he's bad in bed -- are shallow concerns. Weight and sexual performance can be worked on, I know. Him being light-skinned is something I can get over.

However, you know how millions of individual bacteria boil up into a single nasty zit? That's what's happened here. A lot of stress and a lot of other issues boiled up into three zits with deceivingly simple heads. My big 3 were just the simple issues that all the other stress attached itself to.

To make a long story short, I have been supporting this man for the past couple of months because in a fit of pique, he walked out of his job down there in Florida. He did this without another job in place to go to, and without any other source of income at all. Granted, he did this because on the day he found out his father was coming home from the hospital specifically to die at home, his boss at that job did something despicable -- but still. And because of this, I supported him, which meant draining my bank account and my credit card, and overdrafting on them both. I paid his bills and sent him money to eat with.

In addition to this, it always seemed for these past couple of months that nothing I did was enough. Yes, I know his father was dying, but most of the time on the phone nothing I could do or say was enough to make the pain go away at all. That might have been when what I felt for him before began to die.

Secondly, he arrived on a Tuesday and that Friday when we were out enjoying some nightlife, he received a phone call telling him that his father died. That was more stress on top of all the rest. I can't blame him for that, but I don't have to like the stress either. My parents are dying also, and I'm still supporting him on my paycheck. We're down to one meal a day to save money.

Thirdly, he's moody. And touchy. Little things set him off and send him into a deep black mope. He always snaps out of it, but that drags me down. I can ride high upon a deep depression without the help. I don't need someone like an anchor chained to my ankle. We snipe at each other constantly and bicker all the time.

Fourth, I don't think he's serious about working on his weight and health. Yes, because of the money situation, we're not eating as healthily as we should. Yes, he's found a job and perhaps when his paychecks start coming in, we'll eat better. However, in the meantime, it's hard to hear someone say they want to exercise and get fit when they're ordering burgers and large soft drinks and then lying around watching TV for up to six or seven hours at a stretch. I want to exercise and the answer is always... later. Let's do it later. I want to take a nap. After this show. And then he falls asleep. He's asleep now.

Fifth, one of the two men interested in me -- the man most interested in me, actually -- is a personal trainer, which proves his commitment to health. He's also my physical ideal, dark and handsome and all the rest. (Note: Believe it or not, I put a lot more stock in personality than I do looks. From what I've found out about this man, I appreciate his personality much more than his looks.) However, perhaps most importantly, he's HIV positive, just like me. The guy from Florida is not, and at the start of our relationship that caused some stress for him. I've dated plenty of other HIV-negative men and this didn't bother me at first, but now it's beginning to. I get very nervous if he says he's feeling sick. Also, the other night we brushed our teeth and we both bled a little. We didn't think about it until just a little later when we realized we couldn't even kiss goodnight.

Sixth, that personal trainer lived here in my town, moved away, but is planning to move back in the fall. If I just can't rekindle the spark with my boyfriend, it would be so wonderful to date a person like normal people do. None of this online crap. Long-distance dating forces you to fill in the gaps with your fantasies and you inevitably end up disappointed when reality comes calling.

Bottom line, the spark that was there is gone. Stress and bad moods killed it. I'm trying to get it back, but at this point I'm not even sure I want it back. There's someone else in the picture who walks the walk and who I wouldn't have to worry about killing with my poisoned blood.

Does that about sum it up? Writing this out has been a fairly depressing exercise and I don't feel like rereading it. If anyone has a question about any of this, go nuts and ask, and I'll answer it.

Edit: I just realized I forgot to mention two other things. The first is that in the last week before he was due to move up here, he had a major breakdown and thus I had to spend literally every spare minute I had at work that night on the phone with him. During this breakdown, he wept and told me he was no good for me and that I should find someone else. Then he implied that he couldn't deal with everything going on and planned to kill himself. It caused me no small amount of distress when, later in the night, he stopped answering his phone. By morning, I was planning to contact his friends via facebook and ask them to check on him, or else call the police where lived in Florida and ask them to do a welfare check. He was better by morning though.

The second is that for the longest time, his mother hated me sight unseen because I'm white. This is ironic considering that if he was any lighter-skinned, he'd be Swedish. However, over the course of one of my rants about this, I mentioned the fact that I had emptied both my bank account and my credit card for his sake. Him being a very proud sort of person, this made him very upset, to the point that he told me later that night that for a moment there he was sure our relationship was over because I had dared to "throw in his face" the fact that I was supporting him.

I think everything began to go into a tailspin with these two incidents. The rest followed in an avalanche so that by the time time it came time for me to go down there, I was in full-out screaming freak out mode, which was where I was when I posted this thread originally so long ago.

[HYHYBT]

Well THAT certainly tells a different story than it sounded in the original post....

Have to think on this one... but please don't cheat. If you break up, break up, with a reasonable time for him to find someplace else to live, but in the meantime, don't cheat... and don't assume Fitness Trainer will still be interested once you're single.

[Green_Fairy]

Well THAT certainly tells a different story than it sounded in the original post....

Have to think on this one... but please don't cheat. If you break up, break up, with a reasonable time for him to find someplace else to live, but in the meantime, don't cheat... and don't assume Fitness Trainer will still be interested once you're single.

i agree. with all of that. cheating is never good, even if you know the relationship is over. my advice? (and please feel free to throw it out the window)
break up with him as soon as you feel ready. tell him you care about him, but you don't think it's going to work out between you. don't kick him out, but end the sexual and romantic relationship. sleep in separate beds (take the couch or whatever), no kissing, ect. help him find a new place to live. do not start dating someone seriously until either he moves out, or a month or so later if it takes him a while to find a place to live. but don't bring the new guy over if he's there. he sounds emotionally fragile, so tread lightly.

just be careful. and keep us posted!

[Jester]

To make a long story short, I have been supporting this man for the past couple of months because in a fit of pique, he walked out of his job down there in Florida.

And because of this, I supported him, which meant draining my bank account and my credit card, and overdrafting on them both. I paid his bills and sent him money to eat with.

I'm still supporting him on my paycheck. We're down to one meal a day to save money.

Ah, the real reason surfaces. They say that the majority of divorces are caused by financial issues. Whether you realize it or not, this is something that is bothering you. In your original post you tried to hide it, whether consciously or not, but as you said in this post, those other three reasons were merely symptoms of a larger stressor: money.

Fourth, I don't think he's serious about working on his weight and health.

I want to exercise and the answer is always... later. Let's do it later. I want to take a nap. After this show. And then he falls asleep. He's asleep now.

This raises the very pertinent question: are you serious about this? Because if you were, you wouldn't need to wait for him to join you in exercising. You would just do it yourself, with or without him. And maybe he would eventually join you after seeing your example. After all, while you can blame him for not working on his own health, you can hardly blame him for you not working on yours.

Fifth, one of the two men interested in me -- the man most interested in me, actually -- is a personal trainer, which proves his commitment to health. He's also my physical ideal, dark and handsome and all the rest.

None of which proves that he isn't a douchebag.

Look, I've said it before, to you and others, and I'll say it again: don't be looking elsewhere while you have a relationship at home that you say you are working on. If you are working on it, work on it, and don't be looking outside your home for something new. If you're not working on it, admit it, be honest with your boyfriend, break it off as best you can, and move on....but out of respect for him, do not start something up with someone new until after your boyfriend has found a new place to live, if that's the direction you choose to take.

Bottom line, the spark that was there is gone. Stress and bad moods killed it. I'm trying to get it back, but at this point I'm not even sure I want it back.

So, is the bottom line that the spark is gone, or are you trying to get it back? You seem to contradict yourself here. It sounds to me like you've given up even trying, to be honest.

I don't need someone like an anchor chained to my ankle.

This, for example, does not sound like someone who is trying to get an old spark back. This sounds like someone who has written off the relationship and is already looking to the horizon for someone new.

There's someone else in the picture who walks the walk and who I wouldn't have to worry about killing with my poisoned blood.

As does this.

Look. Enough of this. Seriously, enough. Even if your relationship is over, have at least enough respect for your boyfriend, and enough self-respect for yourself, to wait a little bit before jumping back into the saddle with someone else. Whether or not you work through the problems with your boyfriend, the personal trainer is not going to be the answer, either for the problems you are going through now, or your own personal demons. Despite what you said about online dating and fantasies, you are attaching your own fantasies to this guy without anything to back it up, other than your personal belief that your current relationship has gone to shit.

...please don't cheat. If you break up, break up, with a reasonable time for him to find someplace else to live, but in the meantime, don't cheat... and don't assume Fitness Trainer will still be interested once you're single.

Quoted for truth, wisdom, and added emphasis to my above points.

[Antisocial_Worker]

Well... The deed is done. My boyfriend and I are no longer together, although it seems to have gone as well as a breakup could possibly go.

Here's how it went down. The other day he had to go to the local college, where he'll be attending classes this fall, to see an adviser. He found a bad one and she gave him the runaround. He came out in a furious mood and told me he hated this place (meaning the school but I took it to mean my city), and we fought all the way into downtown, where we had planned to get some lunch and pray at a church that's special to us both. Why did we fight? Because he wanted to give up, and I wanted him to go back to the school and see a different adviser, one who was actually helpful.

The day passed, we did go back to the school and he did see a helpful adviser. However, later that evening as we were heading out to this really great used bookstore... somehow the conversation turned to breaking up and he asked me if I just wanted to be friends.

I don't know what made me pause, but my silence was his answer. It was like a weight lifted off me and immediately we were acting like best of friends again. Since then, our time has been spent navigating our friends' reactions. I explained how stressed out I'd been, and how we moved WAY too fast. In the end, it was one of those rare breakups where there isn't a bad guy, although his friends and family think I'm a monster.

So, here we are... I'm much happier. The plan is for him to move across the hall into the spare bedroom in this apartment, while we see if we can rebuild at a saner pace. If not, there are options for us both.

I feel good.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I feel good.

Good. :)

..........

[ArcticChicken]

That......went a lot better than I was expecting, honestly. I very glad you got this worked out amicably. His family and friends will get over it when they see that he is happy.

[HYHYBT]

That's a remarkably agreeable ending; sounds like he was having thoughts along similar lines to yours.

[AccountingDrone]

:cheers:

Wonderful. I have a feeling that it will work out even just staying friends and splitting the flat. I stayed friends with my exhusband, and I have remained friends with most of my ex boyfriends[exfiancees are another matter for me =(]

[Seshat]

That sounds like it might be healthier. Okay. So: what have you learned from all this?

* Maintaining physical health is important to you, both in yourself and your partner.

What is going to happen if you find a healthy partner who later develops something that prevents them from continuing to be healthy? Work on that, think about it. The chances are very good that everyone will develop at least one serious illness in their lives.

What will you need to do to be able to support them? What will you need them to do? It's fair to need them to be working on their health - my family has decided that my primary job for the household is looking after my health. If I neglected it, they'd be validly upset with me. But I couldn't do it without their love and support.


You want a partner who values their well-being. So look for that in a partner.


* You had trouble this time coping with a partner who is grieving to the point of depression. You probably will have trouble coping with a partner who has depression. You may have trouble coping with other mental illnesses in a partner.

Not surprising. Most people do. Study up on the natural and healthy grieving process, and find resources for support for mental illness and carers of those who are mentally ill.

Everyone who has friends or family will go through grief, everyone who loses a significant portion of their health goes through grief, some people go through grief when losing a job, or moving house. You will at least need to support a partner through grief.

You may need to support a partner through depression or some other mental illness. You currently lack the skills. Hit your local library and learn.


At present, you value mental health in a partner. Consider whether you actually value someone 'technically sane', or would be willing to go with someone who bears a label like 'schizoaffective' or 'depressive' but has the tools and techniques to live with it in a healthy way. Either way, study enough about mental health to make an informed decision, and to be able to get help when it's needed.


* You want a partner who makes an effort to support themselves.

This is pretty damn realistic. Maybe instead, you want a partner who makes an effort to contribute to the family - think about that. Some people are happy to be the financial support while their partner keeps house, grows organic veg, maintains chickens, sews the wardrobe, and otherwise does six kazillion things that amount to a full-time job in and of itself.

Figure it out. You're the only one who can.


* You want a partner who's also HIV positive.

I honestly think that for you, this one is non-negotiable. All the others, you can probably work around. But this one, I don't think so.

With an HIV+ partner, you can just go ahead and kiss without fretting about whether one of you bit your tongue eating dinner.



Now here's some of my own


* You need a partner you can disagree with, without it becoming a fight

This requires that you develop disagreement-management skills yourself. They're usually available in books about communication skills. It's all that stuff you've probably heard about never saying "you always" and saying phrases like "when you do X, I feel Y'.

And don't expect to get it in the first few months of a relationship. You both have to learn how the other communicates, and you both have to learn what annoys and upsets the other, and come to some sort of balance. This can take many months, even many years.

One of the early skills to try to develop in a healthy relationship is the skill of discovering 'oh. shit. we disagree on this, and it's important. Okay, let's sort it out' and then sorting it out without going into fury level anger.
Without any anger is the ideal, but keeping things to a dull roar is acceptable.

Oh, and 'hang on to that thought, I'm going to the punching bag for ten minutes' is also an acceptable interruption to the discussion. Emotions HAPPEN. Taking it out on the punching bag can be just what's needed to clear both peoples' minds.


* You need someone with compatible life goals

Not 'the same' life goals. 'Compatible' life goals.

I could never be the wife of someone who wanted to be a major political or business force. That sort of power-politics life just isn't one I could be happy in, and it's pretty much compulsory for 'the wife' in those careers.

But I could be the wife of someone who wanted to do stuff like climb Everest, or sail solo around the world, and so forth. As long as he didn't mind me staying home.

I couldn't marry someone who wanted children. I can't cope with living in that level of close proximity, and it would be emotionally harmful to the children for an adult in their family to basically ignore them. "Wants children" is incompatible with "doesn't want children".

Discuss life goals. Discuss how they impact on each other. If there's a compromise that makes you both happy, yay. If it's not going to be possible to compromise, hug each other, wish each other the best in life, and limit the relationship to a strong friendship.

* You have to be able to be friends

Romantic love passes. A solid kind of deep love takes its place, but the romantic gloss passes. And when it does, you see all the flaws it was hiding.

You need a solid friendship to get you through that stage. And to get you through the rough times, when one of you loses the plot to grief, or you lose a job during a recession, or one of you gets a crippling but temporary (thank god) disability.



So .. yeah. Uncle Jester gave you the hard word. Now Auntie Seshat's tossed you a big bundle of advice on who to look for.

You'll notice I said nothing about skin colour or weight. DO look at fat, pale guys as well as skinny dark guys. The fat guy may be hypothyroid, have been struggling to get a diagnosis, and just starting treatment. And that DOES quality as 'looking after his physical health'.

And the pale/dark? Meh. The qualities I mentioned above are important. Once you find the right person, you'll discover that you LOVE his particular skin colour, eye colour, and that weird mole right on the edge of his eyebrow.

[Antisocial_Worker]

I appreciate all the help and advice I've been offered and given here. Thank you all.

[smileyeagle1021]

And the pale/dark? Meh. The qualities I mentioned above are important. Once you find the right person, you'll discover that you LOVE his particular skin colour, eye colour, and that weird mole right on the edge of his eyebrow.

I'm going to repeat something that I've mentioned on fratching, something a guy once told me, and hauntedhead, you might want to take this to heart. (I'm going to do the somewhat shorter, somewhat edited for less TMI, version)
"Hot guys who can make me cream my pants without even trying are a dime a dozen. There are plenty of people out there better looking, more confident, and more skilled than you out there, but none of them are you. You saw me as a person rather than an object, someone like that is truly unique and not easily found, don't ever lose that"

When it comes down to it, he's right, guys you find physically attractive are no doubt very numerous, but finding one who sees who you really are and has a compatible spirit... when you find that truly rare man, don't miss him because he isn't tall, dark, and handsome... he may not be there next time you look.

*ftr, that wasn't my boyfriend who said it oddly enough :p

[Antisocial_Worker]

Well... again... He told me he hates me yesterday, which broke my heart.

I wish him nothing but the utmost best and I want him to be happy, and he told me point-blank that he hates that. Apparently I'm supposed to wish a disease on him or something.

At work last night, I kept thinking about the stages of grief. At some point in there, there's anger. I hope that's all this is.

[Taboo]

It may be that he wants to be able to pin something wrong on you, so that he can justify being mad at you now and get over you faster. Happens sometimes in breakups. I don't know if he necessarily even *really* means it.

It's good that you're giving him a place to stay for a while, but I hope he's moving out soon, because it'll make it easier for both of you to move on and try to have some sort of healthy friendship again. Seeing you every day is probably not easy for him.