How to Date: A guide for the romantically clueless [Archive]

Lvl_9_Gazebo

07-09-2010, 02:43 PM

Okay, I thought up the cool title, now the rest of you will have to fill in the blanks because I have no idea how to date.

For instance, is it acceptable to go on a date with someone else who you know has an interest in you after you've already gone on four or five dates with someone else who is also interested in you? Yes, because it hasn't gotten serious yet, or no, because it looks like it's heading in that direction?

These and other burning questions will hopefully be answered!

Why can't I answer them myself, you may ask. Long story short, I like many gay men had to hide who I was as a teenager and entered the adult world severely stunted in this department. You want to know why gay culture as a whole is shallow and immature -- that's why. There are millions of us running around in this predicament. I realize it. I accept it. I also accept that all of my experiences trying to date and start and build relationships have been disasters. Case in point a thread I posted in this particular forum not long ago at all.

In my case, I used the internet to find men. I'd find one, and he'd be in another time zone, and that was that. We'd talk, we'd feel those first stirrings of infatuation, mistake it for love, and it was a downward spiral after that. Every time. With long distance dating you fill the silences with your fantasies. Or the silences grow longer and longer until that's all you have and you fall into the silence and land in a dark place.

I've been there and I'm trying to get out, and now for the first time in my life I actually have two -- count 'em! -- two men who live within ten miles of me vying for my attention! They're cute, they're black, they're in the medical profession (hel-LO male nurse!) and they're local! Honest to God local!

And I have no idea what to do. I hear about these things that people go on called dates, and I think I've been able to fake a knowledge of this "dating" thing pretty well with one of these guys so far, but I'm sure I could be doing better.

Tips, tricks, hints? And what about the other guy?

Please help!

Treasure

07-09-2010, 03:04 PM

If its not serious with Guy A, then yes, you can go out on a date w/ Guy B, HOWEVER be honest with both of them that you are SEEING more than one person, not in a RELATIONSHIP with any - no you do not have to disclose names or even that its only 1 other

DO NOT tell guy A, me and "a friend" (code for guy B) are going to place X, and you should meet up with us there - this will go badly!!!

DO NOT make plans with one, and then break them off b/c the other asked you to something you think would be more awesome or whatever - there may be exceptions to this, such as tix to a 1night only type of event, but be honest - "our plans are reschedule-able, and someone else just surprised me with this; I'm sorry" - don't ever tell the person you're breaking plans with that you're not feeling well

Don't try to compare them to each other - this will make you miserable, and they will notice it, and emotions will explode - instead, compare your compatibility with each of them:
HH and Guy A
Things in Common | Things that compliment | deal breakers (3+)

HH and Guy B
Things in common | Things that compliment | deal breakers (3+)

OH, and DO stay positive about the whole thing, if you start doubting it, self-fulfilling prophesy!

That is all I can think of for now.... but who knows, there may be more.

Seshat

07-09-2010, 03:10 PM

No one is sure how to date - we all just make it up as we go along. We just try to do our best, get along.

We all end up hurting each other, enjoying each other's company, messing up, getting it right, and hopefully, eventually, finding someone we can share life with.

BookstoreEscapee

07-10-2010, 01:18 AM

Date? What is this date you speak of? :headscratch:

:rolleyes:

shankyknitter

07-10-2010, 02:45 AM

Date? What is this date you speak of? :headscratch:

I second this motion!

Mishi

07-10-2010, 04:10 AM

I'll third it! I only went on one 'date'. I was 13, it was the town festival and the guy I was with tried to boss me around and then grabbed the free safe sex pack from one of the stalls. Yeah, I refused to go out with him again.
After that, I only thought about dating someone that I could tolerate waking up next to for the rest of my life.
When I met Rugz, we went on two group outings, talked on the 'net and over the phone for 8 months and then he moved interstate for me. We've been together ever since, but we're just really, really lucky and really very stubborn.

Plaidman

07-10-2010, 04:50 AM

Try not having a single date until your 24 and straight. Oi. You build up this massive idea of what a date is, and then you have it and your going "...huh..."

That being said: Is it fair to date two people at once? Yeah. IF YOUR HONEST. I will warn you though, that one, or maybe, MAYBE both will not like this idea. Just a risk you have to take. I will tell you this though, and I've witness it. If you do not tell them in fear of losing both, you WILL lose both in the end when it comes crashing down.

Dating is just to get to better know a person. Anyone can at least get a first date with somebody. This does not mean that you'll get a second date, let alone third date and that elusive girlfriend/boyfriend status where you spend most of the time together.

Right now? Just try to have fun. But know that one or even both may not like the idea of you dating another. Your choice on what to do on that. However, both might be ok with that.
If one or both are ok with this, This MEANS they are ALSO allowed to date others, so don't get jealous or angry if they do. You can get angry if they don't tell you.

This big thing, and it may be early to talk about it, is sex. Your going to likely have it with one or even both of them at one point. Guess what? Your responsible for both of them. You need to be safe yourself. This doesn't just mean wear a condom. You need to make sure that they are safe from any disease, and if they are seeing other people and having sex with them that they too are safe. It would not be fair if they lied to you, and gave you something they caught from another lover, and you in return gave it to lover B. Safetly is your prime concern. Both Mentally. Physically. Emontionally. and Sexually.

Seshat

07-10-2010, 11:26 PM

Best advice I ever got about dating was from the book "The Ethical Slut". Yes, it's about - well, having sex with multiple people. But it's about having sex with multiple people without anyone getting hurt - emotionally as well as physically.

And it covers dating.

Whiskey

07-11-2010, 01:21 PM

Best advice ... well, having sex with multiple people. But it's about having sex with multiple people without anyone getting hurt - emotionally as well as physically.

This was my advice yesterday but I was drunk and figured it was inappropriate. I wasn't ready for a relationship (despite being involved in a few) until I had all the miscellaneous screwing out of my system.

Go screw. Screw and be happy. :angel:

Plaidman

07-11-2010, 04:27 PM

Best advice - well, having sex with multiple people. But it's about having sex with multiple people without anyone getting hurt - emotionally as well as physically.

This was my advice yesterday but I was drunk and figured it was inappropriate. I wasn't ready for a relationship (despite being involved in a few) until I had all the miscellaneous screwing out of my system.

Go screw. Screw and be happy. :angel:

My one problem with having miscellaneous sex with mulitple people, besides being difficult, is that sure, you can do it no problem. No hurt feelings at all. But what about the person you are sleeping with. Or even funnier if your dating multiple people, some may found out, they're ok with the whole multiple dating deal, but they may go "hey, we've been doing this for like, two months and we haven't done anything, but you date him and him and her like, two-three weeks and you put him in the hospital with your messing around....". Jealousy does exist in everyone. That causes hurt feelings. Especally being felt left out or unloved. Even in causal affairs.

Whiskey

07-11-2010, 06:12 PM

My one problem with having miscellaneous sex with mulitple people, besides being difficult, is that sure, you can do it no problem. No hurt feelings at all. But what about the person you are sleeping with. Or even funnier if your dating multiple people, some may found out, they're ok with the whole multiple dating deal, but they may go "hey, we've been doing this for like, two months and we haven't done anything, but you date him and him and her like, two-three weeks and you put him in the hospital with your messing around....". Jealousy does exist in everyone. That causes hurt feelings. Especally being felt left out or unloved. Even in causal affairs.

Your first couple statements seem to pull on the fact that the person you're sleeping with doesn't know youre in a casual relationship. Also, they don't need to know who or how often you're with someone else. A simple conversation of "Hey, I'm just having fun right now, i'm not looking for anything serious :)" is basically enough. As long as you start the relationship honestly, you shouldnt have a problem. You can't predict or plan for emotional responses from other people down the line. Deal with it if or when you get there.

I've never had an issue with jealousy because I was very upfront about being Friends + Benefits. The only time I had a problem was when the other person decided they wanted more. We had a discussion and decided on the appropriate course of action. Sometimes you have to cut out the benefits and just be friends, sometimes you have to cut them out completely if they can't handle it maturely, maybe you both feel the same and you get exclusive. Theres an endless number of alternative endings.

I have a couple guys who are my friends, who i've slept with. I know they sleep with other women, they have girlfriends occasionally, they know I have boyfriends/sleep with other guys. We don't care because we're not dating. We get together, have fun, screw around and call it a night because thats what our relationship is. Sometimes we hang out platonically and catch dinner. Sometimes we hit a bar and shuffle home drunk as skunks and have a good time.

Also, feeling "left out" or "unloved" indicates you have feelings beyond a casual relationship. A casual relationship requires a certain degree of maturity that a lot of people who deal with casual relationships don't have.

edit: I thought I was talking to the OP. Its still relevant though.

Magpie

07-11-2010, 07:03 PM

This was my advice yesterday but I was drunk and figured it was inappropriate. I wasn't ready for a relationship (despite being involved in a few) until I had all the miscellaneous screwing out of my system.

Go screw. Screw and be happy. :angel:

I don't think that Seshat was precisely giving this advice, more that the book had useful advice in general.

Plaidman

07-11-2010, 07:34 PM

Your first couple statements seem to pull on the fact that the person you're sleeping with doesn't know youre in a casual relationship. Also, they don't need to know who or how often you're with someone else. A simple conversation of "Hey, I'm just having fun right now, i'm not looking for anything serious :)" is basically enough. As long as you start the relationship honestly, you shouldnt have a problem. You can't predict or plan for emotional responses from other people down the line. Deal with it if or when you get there.
.

Perhaps. I doubt I can exactly explain what I mean. So I'll use names.

Bob, Alice, Jim, Jane.

Bob sleeps with Alice and Jane. They all know this.

Alice Sleeps with Bob and Jim. They all know this. She sleeps with Jim far more then Bob.

Jane however, while proclaming to be willing to have friends with benifits with Bob, will sleep with Jim far more, along with any other guy as much as they want. however not so much with Bob.

Sure, it's all fun and games. They all want to just get laid and have fun with no strings attached.

But is it really fair that all the others can sleep with whomever, whenever they want, proclaim their willing to do it woth another, but that time never really comes? Person is left out. He may or may not have feelings, but it does cause some resentment, such as "wow. I'm friends. I have needs too. I don't want a relationship just like them. But hey, can't get it on with them. To busy doing it with others. I'm just there for the emontional friend thing and not physical"

Point is, you can have as much casual sex as you want. You can be with friends and have causual sex with them. Just be aware that if your IN multiple relationships, even if it IS just to have fun and date, it really isn't all that fair that your willing to fuck half of them, and let the rest date you, take you out and not sleep with them when you are more then willing to do the others, even if they don't do much of the dating itself.

My basic thing is: If your have datings and with muitple people, and they all know your dating others, just be aware some jealous may arrise if it's revealed your fucking most of them, but not some of them for whatever reason.

Whiskey

07-11-2010, 09:22 PM

My basic thing is: If your have datings and with muitple people, and they all know your dating others, just be aware some jealous may arrise if it's revealed your fucking most of them, but not some of them for whatever reason.

Welcome to personal choice. If the person who is not getting laid doesn't like it, they can develop a platonic relationship with the person they were dating. Just because you fuck some people doesn't mean you have to fuck everyone. Maybe Jim just flat out fucks better than Bob does. Bob needs to step up his game.

Your whole thing is based on the fact that someone, somewhere, at some point might be upset with a decision you make. Why fuck anyone? I know guys who think if you sleep with more than 1 person, you are a dirty, dirty whore. I know guys who think that if they buy you dinner and you eventually, at some point, have sex with them, you are literally prostituting yourself.

I've had boyfriends get -gasp- jealous that I've had casual relationships in the past. If you spend all your time worrying about every possible scenario that might happen.. well..

Plaidman

07-11-2010, 09:35 PM

Welcome to personal choice. If the person who is not getting laid doesn't like it, they can develop a platonic relationship with the person they were dating. Just because you fuck some people doesn't mean you have to fuck everyone. Maybe Jim just flat out fucks better than Bob does. Bob needs to step up his game.

Your whole thing is based on the fact that someone, somewhere, at some point might be upset with a decision you make. Why fuck anyone? I know guys who think if you sleep with more than 1 person, you are a dirty, dirty whore. I know guys who think that if they buy you dinner and you eventually, at some point, have sex with them, you are literally prostituting yourself.

First off: Never assume that is's the girl who just doing multiple dating with multiple guys at same time. A guy can also date multiple girls at the same time.

As for hurt feelings.
Only because I witnessed it. More then once. Never me, I know where I stand at in women's eyes.

But I've seen friends who's female friends are more then willing to kiss them, hold them, let them be date, whisper that soon they might get some.

Sex shouldn't be expected from anyone. At all.

But if you are dating a few people at the same time, at least be clear to each one where you stand at any chance. If your in a relationship with multple people, yes, they do need to know that your fucking A, C, and D, if anything to know that hey, she or he might get and STD, or he might get A, C, and D pregnet if they are females. Now your in a relationship with muiltple people. Everyone knows. Everybody is cool. Not just casual sex or even friends with benifits, you are officallly the girlfriend of Bob, Jim, Alex, and Jason. You may not be excusive, but your their girlfriend. Same with Bob being offical boyfriend of Alice, Jane, Sara and Rachael.

Each deserves to know if your fucking some other person, because they deserve to be safe too from any stds or chance of pregnency.

But if your fucking 3 out of the 4, that one just MIGHT get jealous.

Not stating it will. But its a better then slim chance he or she will. Especally if they been dating you the longest.

Whiskey

07-11-2010, 11:08 PM

Your point is someone at some point might get hurt eventually because jealousy happens.

My point is that is life and will happen in every romantic situation, not just casual ones.

Everybody is cool. Not just casual sex or even friends with benifits, you are officallly the girlfriend of Bob, Jim, Alex, and Jason. You may not be excusive, but your their girlfriend. Same with Bob being offical boyfriend of Alice, Jane, Sara and Rachael.

Thats polyamory and a totally different thing.

Plaidman

07-11-2010, 11:15 PM

True, but in the OP' case, that is what's happening, and what I really meant when I was talking about dating mulitple people and have sex with only some.

He's dating two guys at once. Just trying to help him be careful.

Whiskey

07-11-2010, 11:23 PM

trailerparkmedic

07-11-2010, 11:44 PM

The solution is apparently a threesome. Post a trip report OP.

Agreed!

Seriously, I don't think dating more than 1 person at a time is wrong, as long as everyone involved knows what's going on, or at the very least, you make it clear that you are not exclusive. I don't think it would be unexpected if you've only been on a few dates.

My only real dating advice is to be honest. Don't string people along. Don't act like someone you're not. Don't sleep with someone unless you want to.

Whiskey

07-12-2010, 12:12 AM

My only real dating advice is to be honest. Don't string people along. Don't act like someone you're not. Don't sleep with someone unless you want to.

This is the best advice to follow and what I was trying to get at. :highfive:

Seshat

07-12-2010, 12:34 AM

Firstly: yes, I was saying that the book has useful general advice. :)

Secondly: the book does cover such situations as Plaid was describing, along with many others.

Thirdly: I think that there are two things that help someone handle these situations maturely. Rigorous self-honesty, and acceptance that one is responsible for one's own emotional well-being.

I'm not saying that if Joe goes ahead and hurts you, you just forgive him because hey, you're responsible for your own emotional well-being.
I'm also not saying you can go ahead and deliberately snub Bill because he's responsible for his own emotional well-being.

What I AM saying is that if you're feeling jealous of Joe, or angry at Bill, it's your responsibility to tackle it. Joe and Bill won't just magically know. You have to recognise your jealousy or anger (rigorous self-honesty), then go to whoever in the group can help you fix the situation that's causing it, and discuss it with them (self-responsibility).

Lvl_9_Gazebo

07-13-2010, 02:36 PM

The situation that I find myself in is interesting... I met both these guys on a site where men basically pick up other men, and so I went into it casually with them and they with me. When you go into something casual, you go into it not wearing your dating mask and costume. I realized this after both of them asked me out. They saw me at my rawest and still saw something there they liked enough to explore further.

And so here I am. I've never faced this situation before because I've so rarely dated anybody who actually lives near me. Before I always had the internet as a security blanket to keep people at arm's length. That way if they drifted away, and they always did, I was still untouched and safe. That way also, if it ever did get to the point of someone visiting someone else, at least that person would be going away at some point and that kept me safe too. It also enabled me to travel the nation in search of love. I've been to Little Rock and Hot Springs, Arkansas; St. Petersburg, Florida; and Detroit in search of "the one." Thought I'd found him in Florida. Was completely and totally wrong...

But what about me here with these two guys now? I entered into the adult world of dating completely stunted because I come from a background where homosexuality is not tolerated, let alone encouraged. Thus, I never got to go through the pitfalls and pratfalls that normal teenagers go through and get out of their system. I don't know how many dates you go on with someone before you're considered exclusive or serious.

What I do know is that I and one of these guys have been out several times already, and we're going to get together this Saturday for a nice heart-to-heart. He's aware of some of the insecurity I feel about anything between us, mainly because I think he's way out of my league and I worry that he'll be moving on after he puts in a year of employment here. I know too that I and the other guy will be going out on Friday for our first date, and we'll see what happens with that.

Seshat

07-13-2010, 04:42 PM

We're trying to say that noone knows how many dates it is before you're serious. There's no fixed number, no fixed anything. It's all fumbling in the dark. So to speak.

However, I would recommend it being a couple of months between first date and 'we could be really serious about this'. No less than six months, preferably a year, before deciding on permanency.

ArcticChicken

07-14-2010, 04:44 AM

The solution is apparently a threesome. Post a trip report OP.

Ooh, yes, pics please. *puppy dog eyes*

My only real dating advice is to be honest. Don't string people along. Don't act like someone you're not. Don't sleep with someone unless you want to.

QFT.

I don't know how many dates you go on with someone before you're considered exclusive or serious.

When you decide to be. This isn't a contract, it's a date, you're not obligated to do anything.

Honestly, I think your biggest problem is that you are trying to hard to find something permanent, to find "The One."

If you go into a relationship expecting this guy to be perfect, then you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. When he does something you don't like, or you find a place where your personalities conflict, then it's going to seem like the end of the world.

If, on the other hand, you go into a relationship expecting to have fun and get to know someone, when you find that spot it's just something to be worked through, if you can, and if you can't you aren't totally broken up when he turns out not to be the person you've built up in your head.

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 01:18 AM

Everyone in this thread is wrong. Its in the Relationship Contractual Obligation form you foot stamp at birth. Three dates and third base, you're exclusive. Four dates and second base, you're engaged.

edit: have sex with everyone. :devil:

edit II: and then get exclusive with someones sister.

Peppergirl

07-15-2010, 01:51 AM

I wasn't ready for a relationship (despite being involved in a few) until I had all the miscellaneous screwing out of my system.

Go screw. Screw and be happy. :angel:

This. This is where I've been for well over a year. Most days I'm cool with it, but some days I wonder if I'll ever be ready for more.

I take it day-by-day. Which is fine for some people, but I can understand that it's not cool for alot of people.

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 01:54 AM

This. This is where I've been for well over a year. Most days I'm cool with it, but some days I wonder if I'll ever be ready for more.

I take it day-by-day. Which is fine for some people, but I can understand that it's not cool for alot of people.

Those people don't get laid enough, thats why.

Serious post: I wondered the same thing, it comes eventually. Enjoy the drama while it lasts, its delicious.

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 02:03 AM

So Whisky.... wanna get together for a couple of dates XD.

Nah. You'd run in fear. -_-.

Peppergirl

07-15-2010, 02:04 AM

Those people don't get laid enough, thats why.

Serious post: I wondered the same thing, it comes eventually. Enjoy the drama while it lasts, its delicious.

:D The funny part is, I have had almost ZERO drama with FWB's - as opposed to MUCH drama in relationships.

I did have one of mine get attached (I ended it) and the other started to (he moved, problem solved) - but even still, that's MUCH preferable to relationship drama. At least the ones *I've* been involved in. :lol:

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 02:06 AM

So Peppergirl... how YOU doing :lol::cool::kiss:

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 02:08 AM

So Whisky.... wanna get together for a couple of dates XD.

Nah. You'd run in fear. -_-.

Maybe when you get my name right, mister.

I did have one of mine get attached (I ended it)

1. get it gurl.

2. that is how you handle complications in fwb. They get attached, you clear it up or end it. Boom, done.

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 02:40 AM

You say that like I had a shot Whiskey! :D

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 02:49 AM

I kept reading it as
You say that like I had a shot of Whiskey! :D

It took me like ten minutes to figure out "of" wasn't actually there. I think its time to start drinking, I can't even read properly anymore.

Peppergirl

07-15-2010, 02:59 AM

So Peppergirl... how YOU doing :lol::cool::kiss:

:roll: Thanks, Joey Tribbiani!!!

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 02:59 AM

:roll: Thanks, Joey Tribbiani!!!

Hey, it works for him, right?

One of these days it might work. Even for an internet kiss/hug!

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 03:00 AM

So Peppergirl... how YOU doing

:roll: Thanks, Joey Tribbiani!!!

I see you've moved on.

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 03:03 AM

I see you've moved on.

Just harmless flirting. Even I can get that far at times. Never further, but it... does wonders for my general outlook of jealousy towards guys and effortless ability to get the girls.

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 03:05 AM

Just harmless flirting. Even I can get that far at times. Never further, but it... does wonders for my general outlook of jealousy towards guys and effortless ability to get the girls.

See this is not how you do a casual relationship. I'm ready to burn his house down.

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 03:07 AM

...How do you do a casual relationship then?

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 03:09 AM

...How do you do a casual relationship then?

if you don't know then I'm not telling you, mr cant get my name right.

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 03:10 AM

....It's..... Whiskey....?

Mistress Whiskey?

Queen Whiskey?

Empress Whiskey?

..... Help me Whiskey, your my only hope ;)

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 03:14 AM

....It's..... Whiskey....?

Mistress Whiskey?

Queen Whiskey?

Empress Whiskey?

..... Help me Whiskey, your my only hope ;)

hahaha. Rock up to a bar, drink, act like a dickhole, go home with the most seemingly attractive broad there, leave her house before you completely sober up. Repeat until excessive drinking and fleeing is unnecessary. Then we'll work on interpersonal relationships.

Peppergirl

07-15-2010, 03:30 AM

Whiskey, I am starting to think I would TOTALLY go girl, for you. :lol:

You f-ing rock!!!

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 03:32 AM

We could all go to a bar...

Well. I uh... could like, buy the drinks for you two. And watch. In a corner. Far from you two as to not bother you.

...

That'll work.

ArcticChicken

07-15-2010, 05:24 AM

Whiskey, I am starting to think I would TOTALLY go girl, for you. :lol:

You f-ing rock!!!

Hey, me too.

Seshat

07-15-2010, 07:07 AM

Plaidman

07-15-2010, 07:12 AM

Your very very lucky too Seshat.

But you totally deserve it anyway :).

Whiskey

07-15-2010, 01:47 PM

Plaid:

There's a whole world of people out there who don't give a damn that you're disabled.

There's a whole world of people out there who ALSO don't give a damn that you're deformed. Or that you'll likely get worse.

There's a LOT of people who will simply look at the personality. Or who will love the body as well regardless of its shape.

There's even some who will love the body because of its shape.

We cripples and gimps are just as entitled to experience love, lust and desire as the whole of body - and there are plenty among both the whole-bodied and the cripples/gimps who are happy to share such with us.

(That said, my own loves have cystic fibrosis, and schizoaffective disorder. So I'm scoring 2 for 2 in loving disabled people.)

People generally only give a damn (in a bad way) when they sense you do, unless they're supermassive assclowns. The people who know how I am (mentally) couldn't care less, but if I'm being a debbie downer, they don't want to be around me. Strangers pick up on those same types of behavior.

I just saw a macro online recently, I don't know the context but this is the order in which I noticed things

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1354/21mht2p.gif

1. Dude seems like he has an awesome sense of humor
2. Dude has some kind of syndrome I'm unfamiliar with
3. Who cares, hes funny :D

I learned a long, long time ago not to decide for someone else if they like you or not. Let them figure it out. Its the same with dating. Don't tell anyone why they shouldn't go out with you, its boring, negative, and makes a statement of "oh well I dont really care that he doesnt have a car, but maybe he's right about being a loser, oh well."

I've had guys outright tell me I wouldn't sleep with them or give them the time of day in casual (often the first) conversation. I just said "Okay" and walked off. Why? Because who wants to deal with that after talking to someone for five seconds. They already have the interaction lined out in their head how its going to go and its going to be absolutely boring because I'm constantly going to hear "are you having fun? youre not having fun are you? no this is stupid im dumb see I told you you'd never like me blahhhhhhhhh"*

Another quote I like. "No one but you knows you've screwed up until you tell them." I've passed presentations in class because I fucked up and rolled with it. No one even knew I had messed up because I didn't tell them and I didn't lose my cool.

*actual encounter, a few of them.