Office Hours

[LingualMonkey]

This thread: http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=70807
reminded me of my encounter with either the world's laziest or the world's dumbest student. In fairness to this particular student, I'm going to go with laziest. I've seen some really dumb students, and while this guy was a bit of a mouth-breather...I've seen dumber.

Anyway.

I'm doing my office hours, which I do in our library. Essentially, I have a deal with the other instructors at my school. I'm available to help their students with papers (since I'm the English teacher), and I can send my students to them with help on topic selection and research. So a student who is not one of mine pulls up to my table.

He's in the humanities class, and he needs to do a paper. Hooray! He's decided that for his paper, he's going to write about the movies of Alfred Hitchcock. Double hooray! Good topic, really. I like Hitchcock a lot (my favorite movie ever is North by Northwest), and it's a rich topic. He could just about pick any couple of movies and write about those, and he'll find tons of source material. In fact, this should be a really fun paper to write.

But no. I should have realized. The following is the extremly short version of the 90-minute conversation (no exaggeration) I had with this student.

Dramatis personae
Me: Your ever-lovin' simian English teacher
LSITW: Laziest student in the world

Me: So, Hitchcock is a good choice. You'll find a lot of material to work with.
LSITW: What movies should I write about?
Me: Well, what movies do you want to write about?
LSITW: I don't know. What movies should I use?
Me: Well, you might want to find two or three that have some similarities.
LSITW: Like what?
Me: The 39 Steps and North by Nortwest are both mistaken identity dramas. Vertigo, Rear Window and Strangers on a Train all involve murder plots. Psycho and The Birds are his only movies considered horror. Any of those would be good.
LSITW: Which one should I do?
Me: Whichever one you think is the most interesting.
<<continue for 10 more minutes>>
LSITW: So what sources should I use?
Me: Well, you'll want to look on our databases for articles.
LSITW: Which database should I use?
<<continue for 20 more minutes>>
Me (starting to really lose it now): Look, here's a book of interviews with Hitchcock sitting on the bookshelf.
LSITW: Should I use it?
Me: I'm gonna say you should at least look at it.
LSITW: Which interviews should I read?
Me: I don't know. I haven't read the book.
LSITW (opens book at random): Should I use this one?
Me: I don't know. Maybe you should read it.
<<continue for 60 more minutes>>

You get the idea. The student either could not or would not make any decision regarding this assignment. At one point I almost said "I will not write your paper for you. I will not do your research. You have been pointed in the direction you need to go 4 dozen times and my foot is worn out from kicking you in the ass to get you off the starting line. Go thou and read, and darken my table no longer, you lazy pile of pig guts." But I didn't say this, because I need my job.

I'd love to say this is an exception. It was an extreme example, but not completely unusual.

[Animae]

With the exception of the lazy pig guts and ass, I feel you would have been totally justified in saying that out loud. I don't think that if you had left those two bits out, you would have gotten in trouble.

[Can I Help Your A$$?]

Wait--I don't think this kid has seen a Hitchcock movie. It stands to reason he should check out a few and start watching.

[C. Cecil Ivanish]

After reading and re-reading this post, I came to the conclusion that this example of academic geniality picked Hitchcock because he has a funny name. I can picture him, with his fellow geniuses, guffawing because he learned to spell it: Hitch - Cock. Oh, what a lark.

[MoonCat]

I think Cecil's got the right idea.

I bet I can guess how this kid ended up at your school and in that Humanities class.

"Which school should I go to? Which classes should I take?" It probably continues at home: "What should I wear to school?" And so on....:rolleyes:

[Sapphire Silk]

Oy vey. My sympathies. :hug: Here, you need a :drink:

I get similar sorts of things from my nursing students. Every semester, I have them do evidence based research assignments that they have to submit online.

Every year, someone wants me to read their assignment before they submit it. Every year I have to explain I'm not going to grade their work before I grade their work. They get detailed instructions . . . all they have to do is read. *sigh*

[chainedbarista]

yes, i agree that cecil nailed the reasoning. too bad this knuckle dragging mouth breather didn't realize that after choosing comes the researching and the writing segments, even though he's been through this drill more than a few times.

i really worry for the state of our nation; with geniuses like these getting pumped out of the mill, we're in big trouble. all an enemy nation has to do is drop an airload of shiny tinfoil balls and invade. :(

[skeptic53]

I worked for 5 months at a community college as an academic adviser, helping students pick classes. Boy does this post bring back memories. "I dunno" (actually more often "Iunno") and "What should I pick?" were 99.99999% of the answers to questions regarding what they might be interested in doing with their lives, what subjects or fields interested them, etc. Dealing with people who had average (or less) level of intelligence didn't bother me. Dealing with people who had less than zero interest in thinking for themselves or trying to improve their lot in life, get somewhere, anywhere at all drove me nucking futs. Go flip burgers, or search the earth for the perfect sidewalk to skateboard on, until you have a clue what you might want to do in college.

[Sapphire Silk]

Yeah, reminds me of the moron I was trying to register for classes last summer.

First he tells me he's a pre-med major. I look at his records and his math grades suck. I warn him he will needs LOTS of Chemistry and physics to get into med school . . . and even then, they only pick the cream of the crop.

Then he starts talking about nursing as a sub for pre-med. He will still need math, chemistry and physics if he's pre-med.

OK, so now he's a nursing major. I draw the line.

Me: Look, do you have any idea what nursing is all about? *I then explain it to him*.

So then he decides he's a Criminal Justice major. For which I cannot help him at all (I have no idea what their requirements are, other than a clean criminal record).

30 minutes of my life I will never get back.

I hate open registration.

[bainsidhe]

*snerk* I think I was one of the idiots registering for classes. :o My first semester at college, we were basically spoon-fed which classes to take, no joke. So when 2nd semester registration rolled around, I was the silly and naive little freshman with no clue what classes to take other that general information like "lit class". I didn't even realize I had options. And of course I wrongly assumed classes would be spoon-fed to me again. :rolleyes:

My poor adviser was quite frustrated, but she helped set me up and steered me in the right direction. And yes, she did come right out and tell me that students usually had an idea what they wanted to take and needed to pick things out themselves. She was a great lady. :)

[Shalom]

*snerk* I think I was one of the idiots registering for classes. :o My first semester at college, we were basically spoon-fed which classes to take, no joke.

So were we, but I think I spit out the spoon.

English Composition 1, standard first course. Greek/Roman lit, another common starting class. One other course that I forget. Then I threw them a curve ball. Core 7.1 and 7.2, introduction to chemistry and physics respectively, two credits each. These were required courses for graduation; way too many students left them for last semester, flunked them, and couldn't graduate. I, conversely, wanted them out of the way as quickly as possible.

The advisor was horrified. Nobody takes any of the second tier core classes, those numbered 6 through 10, in their freshman year. Especially these two, with, y'know, labs and all. I asked them if there was any rule against it. Well, no, but they're hard. I insisted; the advisor reluctantly put it down for me, but informed me that it was against his better judgment, and if I failed them, then upon my own head be it.

They weren't hard. I got A's in both. Enjoyed it so much that I became a chemistry major, and eventually graduated as a pharmacist.

[Sapphire Silk]

Yeah, my CC spoons feeds the freshmen to. Honestly, in a way we have to: most of our first semester students have to take so many remedial classes, they can't take anything else.

[lwb]

Yeah, my CC spoons feeds the freshmen to. Honestly, in a way we have to: most of our first semester students have to take so many remedial classes, they can't take anything else.

I see this a lot when advising my students, too. At least with mine (Computer Info Systems) they know what program and just need me to tell them the order of classes. The others I have to advise (usually on late registration day because "No one told me we had to register!" Ugh...) usually say, "I need classes."

"OK" says I. "Which ones?"
"Uhhhhhhhhhhh...Nursing"
"Let me pull up your record...OK, you need a TON of math classes and they're all full."
"What do I do now?"
"Try to get in to register earlier next quarter. Sorry!"

Back to the OP, I see this a ton when teaching my remedial math classes. I give them a test and they come up to me and say "How do I do this?" Ummm...too late to ask now!

[Kristev]

In college, I knew right away what I wanted to be: A high school teacher. My problem was diabetes and family problems.

[Whiskey]

My school spoonfeeds everyone, if you want it. All you have to do is get an appointment with a counselor and they'll construct your school schedule. Technically, they do it your first semester because you sit down and map out every single class you need to take to graduate and when you'll be taking them. This is assuming you pass them all the first time.

I just pick whatever fits into my work schedule.

[Eisa]

I got lucky as being in the honors program, they will spoon feed you if you need it and leave you alone if you don't. I haven't seen an adviser since freshman year [although I do need to meet with one before next semester to make sure I've got all my requirements taken care of].

I felt sorry for my adviser freshman year; the first semester, I was still stuck on what it was like in high school, so I wanted to take English 301 [like was recommended for me]. My adviser was like, "You don't HAVE to take English, you already have the required English classes met [with AP scores and ACT scores]." I was kind of like, "....Oh. :o "

[Miss Fatale]

I am also a college professor. A friend of mine is a freshman in college. We were talking about something similar today and I explained that many assignments are set up so that you can learn from them and apply them to other areas of one's life.

Thinking of this thread, I said, "If I tell you go to the library, go to this database, get this book, read this chapter, you'll only know how to do that, you won't know how to do research next time."

My friend, bless his heart, said, "Ohhhhhhhh." Lightbulb totally went off. I hope I have saved some of his future profs from grief. :)

[Seshat]

I think you may have. Also his employers!

[AriRashkae]

Maybe I should try explaining it to my older son like that. Then again, he's 12. He just doesn't give a rat's tail right now. :doh:

[Darkforge]

Thinking of this thread, I said, "If I tell you go to the library, go to this database, get this book, read this chapter, you'll only know how to do that, you won't know how to do research next time."

My friend, bless his heart, said, "Ohhhhhhhh." Lightbulb totally went off. I hope I have saved some of his future profs from grief. :)

but how can people not know how to do this?

I mean in my last year of primary school (I was 11) we had to do 2 projects, one was a short 3 page essay on a topic of our choice, and then we had to do a longer project which had to be a minimum of 5 pages, but the longer it was the better on a second topic of our choice.

I ended up doing my short project on the country Greece and my long one on the Kings and Queens of england (minimum one page each monarch from 1066 onwards plus into and conclusion) that took ages to do, but I went to the library and found the books and read them and then decided what was useful for the topic and what to include. I know I got some help from my parents (there were some old words I didn't understand) but it was one hell of a learning experience.

People should have to do this kind of thing from a young age so they can get used to doing it for themselves.

-that said I'm the worst at making decisions and ask the other half to make most for me, but that just the lazy talking, I'm not afraid of getting off my arse and getting something done when needed.

[Bronzebow]

I ended up doing my short project on the country Greece and my long one on the Kings and Queens of england (minimum one page each monarch from 1066 onwards plus into and conclusion) that took ages to do, but I went to the library and found the books and read them and then decided what was useful for the topic and what to include. I know I got some help from my parents (there were some old words I didn't understand) but it was one hell of a learning experience.

That sounds like an impressive paper. How many pages did the second project end up being?

[Miss Fatale]

but how can people not know how to do this?


In my friend's specific case, he is very literal. I don't know what kind of schooling he had, but when given instructions, he prefers everything to be step by step in exacting detail. It's just how his brain is wired.

I think an example might be....The assignment says choose a fairy tale. Many people will choose something like Snow White or Cinderella. Others might choose stories from China, Japan, Mexico, etc. My friend would say, "Which fairy tale do you mean? Which one should I choose?" He doesn't necessarily mean that he should be told "Snow White" but he wants specifics like, "A European fairy tale recorded between 1600 and 1805."

It's things like that that can make teaching so difficult. One person might think, "Great, I love being told something specific!" and other people think, "Why does it have to be European? Why does it have to be between 1600 and 1805? What about X?"

Literal and abstract modes of thinking are both needed but they are often at odds...