You WILL comply . . . .

[Sapphire Silk]

I'm down here at the beach for a nursing conference. Last night, I went for a walk on the beach, and sprained my ankle really badly. In spite of icing it, taking an NSAID, and elevating it, it was so painful this morning that I asked my friend KW to take me to the local emergency room. I was really fearful I'd broken it (which would be a total disaster to my weight loss program).

When I get there, I'm asked to fill out a registration slip It includes requests for odd information, including my place of birth and my maiden name/ married name. I had already circled the "D" for divorced on marital status, but being asked for the other two bits of information raised an eyebrow and I didn't want to answer the questions, so I left them blank. It is really none of their business and has nothing to do with treating my medical problem.

Three different clerks tried to insist on getting this information from me. I got really annoyed. I finally told them, "it's none of your business. It has nothing to do with treating my ankle." They wouldn't stop pushing, kept up with a line of "we need it to check medical records in case you've ever been here before."

Me: I've never been here before
Clerk: Well, if you were unconscious, we'd need to know if you'd been here before.
Me: I am conscious, alert, and oriented, and I'm telling you I've never been here before.

So she leaves, and comes back with a cop! I got really pissed: she was clearly using law enforcement to try to bully me into going along with her paperwork demands for information I'm not obligated to share with her. Once she did that, I was determined not to give in. I dug in my heels even more.

Me: Now I'm getting angry. I'm offended by this. You have no cause to bring security into this.
Cop: Now I'm offended.
Me: Why are you offended?
Cop: Because I'm a police officer, not a security guard.

That's when I notice his sidearm.
Me: I didn't see your weapon. You are indeed a police officer. I apologize . . . but that still has nothing to do with anything.

Clerk: Well, we don't know who you are because you won't answer our questions.
Me: I've told you who I am. The information you want you are not legally entitled to (yes I put it like that). EMTALA says you have to give me a medical screening exam. I don't have to answer these questions to get one.
Clerk: We'll treat you, but we need to know who you are. Do you have identification? (note: this is a major EMTALA no no. They can't insist on completing registration before seeing a patient).
Me: I have identification . . . but I will not show it to you I will show it to him (the cop) if he asks.
Cop: yes, please.

So I give him my driver's license. he takes it out of the room, and probably photocopied it for the hospital, then gave it back to me. They let the matter drop.

I'm not letting it drop. I'm drafting a letter to their CEO, and considering whether or not to file a complaint with JCAHO for an EMTALA violation. They delayed caring for my medical emergency because I wouldn't give them information they have no right to.

If I do file an EMTALA complaint, and it is upheld, then it is a $50,000 fine.

The doc and the nurses were great, however. I did get good care . . . once I finally got it.

[surreal20]

Meep. Not cool.

My mom who is a nurse has said "nurses are some of the worst patients." Now please don't get me wrong, i do not mean that you are a bad patient by ANY means. I am just implying that when she says this, she means that nurses known so much about what's going on, that they tend to forget that they are the patient and not the nurse.

Beside from that, that's ridiculous for them to go against this kind of thing. As you have stated before, it is of no consequence who you were before this moment in time as to what care you need right away.

I do hope you follow through with the EMTALA complaint. The only way someone would know its wrong is if someone as educated as you were to come across it. And you have.

As a patient advicate/nurse, i feel that it is possibly you duty to enform them of this infraction. Who knows what kind of crap they could be pulling with this type of information. I am hopeful that they really aren't using if for illlegal things, and that they honestly are just using it for cross reference of medical files...but still...

[Aethian]

Make the complaint, those two questions have no place on a admission slip. At least I don't think they do.

[Mishi]

:confused: What is the point of those questions anyway? The rest of the information should be more than enough for I.D purposes. I hope you make the complaint, making someone wait for medical treatment over something so insignificant should not be allowed.

I hope your ankle heals up quickly! I don't know if it will interact with anything you're taking, but I've found that comfrey cream makes a huge difference to how quickly I heal and for some reason it also helps with the pain. (In theory it shouldn't but I'll take a positive placebo effect over extra painkillers anyday.)

[terakhan]

Personally, I'd be writing to that police department too. I was law enforcement in the military, and if I got called to the base hospital because someone didn't want to give their maiden name, I would have turn around and walked right back out. Law enforcement has more important things to do than to bully patients in a hospital about not filling out forms 'correctly'.

[Spork4pedro]

I'm not in the medical field at all so forgive my ignorance...but how would the staff find out that info if you had been unconscious/unable to answer?

[Sapphire Silk]

Meep. Not cool.

My mom who is a nurse has said "nurses are some of the worst patients." Now please don't get me wrong, i do not mean that you are a bad patient by ANY means. I am just implying that when she says this, she means that nurses known so much about what's going on, that they tend to forget that they are the patient and not the nurse.

<snip>

As a patient advicate/nurse, i feel that it is possibly you duty to enform them of this infraction. Who knows what kind of crap they could be pulling with this type of information. I am hopeful that they really aren't using if for illlegal things, and that they honestly are just using it for cross reference of medical files...but still...

Oh, I agree. Nurses make eve worse patients than doctors because we know how the floor is supposed to be run ;)

I had no problem with legitimate questions. I said "yes, sir" and "no, ma'am". I was respectful and polite in every way, and thanked people for what they did for me. I do understand how hard patients can be on staff . . . I strive not to be a sucky patient.

But when a staff member is sucky . . . then it's game on!

:confused: What is the point of those questions anyway? The rest of the information should be more than enough for I.D purposes. I hope you make the complaint, making someone wait for medical treatment over something so insignificant should not be allowed.

I hope your ankle heals up quickly! I don't know if it will interact with anything you're taking, but I've found that comfrey cream makes a huge difference to how quickly I heal and for some reason it also helps with the pain. (In theory it shouldn't but I'll take a positive placebo effect over extra painkillers anyday.)

Thanks. It feels a lot better today than yesterday. However, last time I had this bad a sprain, I was on crutches for a month. We'll see how it goes over the next week or so.

There was no point to the question about my place of birth. It has absolutely no medical relevance whatsoever. The one about my maiden/married name is a law enforcement question, for determining aliases. That's useful if they want to screen for drug seekers . . . but they're still required to treat drug seekers. Whether or not to give narcs to a drug seeker is the physician's problem, not registration's. Even though drug seeking is a problem, and use of aliases complicates it, it was still not a legitimate question to ask . . . and forcing the issue was not appropriate.

Personally, I'd be writing to that police department too. I was law enforcement in the military, and if I got called to the base hospital because someone didn't want to give their maiden name, I would have turn around and walked right back out. Law enforcement has more important things to do than to bully patients in a hospital about not filling out forms 'correctly'.

I think the cop was employed by the hospital. Some hospitals have their own certified law enforcement. I plan to find out, though.

I'm not in the medical field at all so forgive my ignorance...but how would the staff find out that info if you had been unconscious/unable to answer?

They wouldn't. It was a ridiculous statement for them to make. If a patient is unconscious and has ID, great. If not, oh well. You treat them as a John Doe until they wake up or are otherwise identified. And people die as John Does and are never identified every year.

I'm thinking I will file the EMTALA complaint. I'm also going to write a letter to the editor of the Journal of Emergency Nursing and prompt nurses to have their facilities review their registration policies for this kind of nonsense.

[Mishi]

They wouldn't. It was a ridiculous statement for them to make.

I have a ridiculous answer for that! :angel:

You see, if you're unconcious, they send you to the MRI machine. 'Cuz yanno, it's not actually a Magnetic Resonance Imaging machine... its really a Mind Reading Instrument and 'They' tack on the word machine to confuse you. :lol: (I didn't make this answer up, sad hey?)

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm not in the medical field at all so forgive my ignorance...but how would the staff find out that info if you had been unconscious/unable to answer?

I was gonna ask this very thing.

And :wtf: was a cop doing in there bothering you? None of that was his business and had nothing to do with anything. That doesn't even make any sense.

[NateTheChops]

I was gonna ask this very thing.
And :wtf: was a cop doing in there bothering you? None of that was his business and had nothing to do with anything. That doesn't even make any sense.

The cop might have been there for something entirely unrelated. Heck, he was probably just in there having lunch (some of the police officers in my hometown will stop by the hospital cafeteria on their rounds) and the clerk, not used to having people being statistically smarter than they are, decided to press gang him into muscle service.

I'd love to be the fly on the wall if they had ever pulled that with my own mother. (Who is also a nurse)

[Sparky]

Let us know what happens! :popcorn:

[Sapphire Silk]

Let us know what happens! :popcorn:

I will. I had to leave a message for the EMTALA people; if I don't hear back by Monday afternoon, I'll call again. I'm also going to get my nastygram to the hospital CEO in the mail tomorrow.

[Mytical]

I will. I had to leave a message for the EMTALA people; if I don't hear back by Monday afternoon, I'll call again. I'm also going to get my nastygram to the hospital CEO in the mail tomorrow.

Good for you. Now just hope that this will set things straight. That Cop was also in the wrong. You don't use a position of authority to bully people.

[Seshat]

I hope your ankle heals up quickly! I don't know if it will interact with anything you're taking, but I've found that comfrey cream makes a huge difference to how quickly I heal and for some reason it also helps with the pain. (In theory it shouldn't but I'll take a positive placebo effect over extra painkillers anyday.)

Off topic, but me too!

It's not absolute pain that's the problem - it's suffering. And a placebo effect counters suffering extremely well and with zero side effects. :D

[Sapphire Silk]

Off topic, but me too!

It's not absolute pain that's the problem - it's suffering. And a placebo effect counters suffering extremely well and with zero side effects. :D

Re comfrey cream: I've been told that, though I haven't tried it. Right now I'm using an anti inflammatory cream my doctor gave me for my knees that seems to be working :)

[Sapphire Silk]

Update: Spoke to a very nice lady at Centers for Medicare Services (CMS) that supervises EMTALA compliance in my district.

She gasped when I told her how they tried using a police officer to bully me. She said she'd never heard of such a thing.

Anyway, they're opening an investigation. Apparently, this hospital just got investigated for a complaint . . . now they've got another one. So I don't feel bad about filing this . . . clearly this hospital has issues that need to change.

I'll get the results of the investigation, but she said I probably wouldn't hear anything for a couple of months.

[sstabeler]

I get the feeling that we can guess the results. they'll throw the book at the hospital. ( what IS the maximum penalty for flouting EMTALA?)

[Argus]

( what IS the maximum penalty for flouting EMTALA?)

The authority to impose EMTALA is based on the hospital receiving certain federal funds, such as Medicaid and Medicare. So the only way for an emergency room to say "no" to EMTALA involves the hospital saying "no" to Medicaid and Medicare. There seem to be a few hospitals that had already done that as a matter of policy.

[Sapphire Silk]

I get the feeling that we can guess the results. they'll throw the book at the hospital. ( what IS the maximum penalty for flouting EMTALA?)

A $50,000 fine . . . per occurrence. CMS can also threaten their ability to take Medicare patients . . . which is about 80% of any hospital's income. Usually they get a notice they are not in compliance, and are given time to make an action plan. Once that plan is in place, then they are found to be in compliance.

The authority to impose EMTALA is based on the hospital receiving certain federal funds, such as Medicaid and Medicare. So the only way for an emergency room to say "no" to EMTALA involves the hospital saying "no" to Medicaid and Medicare. There seem to be a few hospitals that had already done that as a matter of policy.

Not quite. EMTALA is a separate statute. Even private hospitals who don't depend on Medicare or Medicaid are bound by EMTALA. That's the purpose of the law, it's the "anti-dumping" law designed to keep private hospitals from dumping critically ill but indigent patients on public or community hospitals to avoid paying for their care.

NO hospital can refuse treatment in the ER based on the ability to pay. They can't even ask you about payment until they've treated you.

They can, however, hound you with bill collectors if you are a dead beat.

[telecom_goddess]

They can, however, hound you with bill collectors if you are a dead beat.

OR if you are not a deadbeat but just can't afford to pay them that last 20 percent after insurance covers stuff. More people go into collections over medical bills because they simply can't afford them.

[Sapphire Silk]

OR if you are not a deadbeat but just can't afford to pay them that last 20 percent after insurance covers stuff. More people go into collections over medical bills because they simply can't afford them.

You're quite right . . . and I beg your pardon. I shouldn't have implied everyone who has trouble paying the bills is a deadbeat. I know better . . . have been there done that myself.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

A hospital near me worked out a payment plan with me when I ended up in the ER with the flu. $1700 for 4 hours stay, including chest x-rays. (I have lung Issues, and had a 104.2 fever.)

I was paying $60 a month for about a year. Then, I get a phone call telling me, "We need you to pay $100/month because other people aren't paying their bills." I was Not Happy. Ended up with them getting investigated for price gouging, as I apparently was not the only complainer.

Seems they were charging people from certain towns more than those from "poorer" towns. My town is known to be full of rich folks (though I and my family are not) so they charged me the higher rates. $1400 of the original bill was forgiven, with $600 returned. So I ended up paying them about $300.

However, it seems they sent me to collections for another $300, *without informing me,* and I never heard from any collections agents, but it showed up on my credit report. Found out about 2 years later, when I had my identity stolen and looked at my reports. A couple phone calls to Experian (the hospital refused to talk to me, same for the "collections agency") and the ding on my credit magically disappeared. :P According to Experian, the hospital nor the "agency" could not explain how I owed them money when they'd sent me a large check in "overpayment."

I hate dishonest hospitals. We don't use that one anymore.

[surreal20]

So my question is, are you able to ask them about how the investigation went? I'm curious.

[Sapphire Silk]

So my question is, are you able to ask them about how the investigation went? I'm curious.

They told me they would contact me with the conclusions of the investigation, and that it would take about two months. I've kept the number and name of the lady I talked to and will call back.

[georgie]

i'd love to hear the outcome of this too.

you go to a hospital for a sprained ankle and end up getting threatened with a policeman. that seems utterly bizarre

[EricKei]

And :wtf: was a cop doing in there bothering you? None of that was his business and had nothing to do with anything. That doesn't even make any sense.
Methinks that Nate hit it on the head:
The cop might have been there for something entirely unrelated.
...Either that, or they lied to Dispatch, claiming (falsely) that you were causing some sort of trouble and/or were making threats or being violent -- in other words, things which WOULD justify Police presence. My guess is that, when you made it clear that you were happy to cooperate (with the cop) once you knew who he really was, he probably started looking a the intake workers with a skepitcal eye, rather than you.

Get better!

[Sapphire Silk]

Methinks that Nate hit it on the head:

...Either that, or they lied to Dispatch, claiming (falsely) that you were causing some sort of trouble and/or were making threats or being violent -- in other words, things which WOULD justify Police presence. My guess is that, when you made it clear that you were happy to cooperate (with the cop) once you knew who he really was, he probably started looking a the intake workers with a skepitcal eye, rather than you.

Get better!

Quite possibly. I suppose I'll find out when the investigation is completed. :)

I'm doing a lot better. I'm done with the crutches and the cane, doing my rehab exercises. Planning to start Tae Kwon Do again on Wednesday . . . the 3 week mark of the original injury. It's still a touch sore, but the swelling is for all intensive purposes gone. An ankle wrap while I'm working out and I should be fine.

[Geek King]

Planning to start Tae Kwon Do again on Wednesday . . . the 3 week mark of the original injury. It's still a touch sore, but the swelling is for all intensive purposes gone. An ankle wrap while I'm working out and I should be fine.

Be really careful. I saw too many people re-injure themselves when I was doing the martial arts thing by pushing themselves back into their old routine too fast. Make sure your teachers are aware of the nature of your injury so they can plan on how hard they can push you safely.

Glad to hear you're doing better, though. :)

[Sapphire Silk]

Be really careful. I saw too many people re-injure themselves when I was doing the martial arts thing by pushing themselves back into their old routine too fast. Make sure your teachers are aware of the nature of your injury so they can plan on how hard they can push you safely.

Glad to hear you're doing better, though. :)

Thanks :) I actually went down to the school yesterday and talked to one of the instructors about my ankle. She agrees I'll need to be careful, but that as long as I continue my strengthening exercises, and don't push myself too hard I should be fine. That's one of the things I like about this school . . . they do push us to exceed normal limits so we improve, but they also tell us to listen to our bodies . . . especially the older adults. We actually have several students who are in their 70's :D

[Seshat]

That's good.

My physiotherapists (pain specialist physios) gave us a 20% rule. If you can do a full week of exercise-routine-X without exceeding your body's limits, next week you can increase it by 20%.
If you can't, drop it by 20%.

For some patients, of course, you need to make that 'two weeks before increasing', or 'a month before increasing', depending on their particular fragility. But the rule of thumb works.

Once you get to where you want to be, stop increasing. Stay on that exercise routine - that's your maintenance level.

[chainedbarista]

ergh; sorry about the injury. just get a bit of heat therapy on it now and then for the comfort factor (after workout...maybe even get a foot massage thrown in?).

given the rising cost of medicine, i'm surprised that there isn't a higher rate of defaults due to non-payment (not deadbeat related). when someone gets hit with a bill just this side of a mortgage payment (after insurance kicks in), anyone expecting a quick payoff is severely delusional.

[Sapphire Silk]

ergh; sorry about the injury. just get a bit of heat therapy on it now and then for the comfort factor (after workout...maybe even get a foot massage thrown in?).

given the rising cost of medicine, i'm surprised that there isn't a higher rate of defaults due to non-payment (not deadbeat related). when someone gets hit with a bill just this side of a mortgage payment (after insurance kicks in), anyone expecting a quick payoff is severely delusional.

The ankle is doing a lot, lot better. :)

The bills from the ER visit are starting to come in. My insurance didn't cover much :mad:

I'll pay the doctor and the radiologist off as quickly as I can. I got good care from them, they don't deserve to be held up too long waiting for payment from me.

The hospital, OTOH, I am going to drag things out a bit. I'm not in a big hurry to pay an organization that treated me so badly.

[surreal20]

I am glad to hear your ankle is getting better. And I wish you easy with the bill payments. No matter how much one thinks they have, it always seems it's not exactly enough. lol ya know?

[Amina516]

Im also glad to hear your ankle is better.

Have you heard from the EMTALA people or other agencies you talked to? Im curious as to how this will play out.

[Sapphire Silk]

Im also glad to hear your ankle is better.

Have you heard from the EMTALA people or other agencies you talked to? Im curious as to how this will play out.

Haven't heard back yet. They told me it would be a couple of months, but that I would get a copy of the final findings.

[Amina516]

Oooo ok. I guess something like that would take a while to sort. I still cant believe they did that.

[Sapphire Silk]

Oooo ok. I guess something like that would take a while to sort. I still cant believe they did that.

I can't believe they didn't back down when I said the magic word "EMTALA." The charge nurse should have stepped in and put a stop to it at that point, quite frankly. Nobody wants an EMTALA fine. It is just not worth it. But the registration clerk had to win . . . she refused to back down and not get what she wanted.

So she continued to try and push me around . . . only to find out I don't push.

[Jay 2K Winger]

So she continued to try and push me around . . . only to find out I don't push.

Oh you do push. You push BACK. Good on ya.

[PepperElf]

Plus, the nurse put the cop in a bad position too. If he was there in the official capacity of a LEO then he could get in trouble for using his authority to uphold the violation of a federal law.

And if he wasn't working in the capacity of a LEO that could be an even bigger issue.

[Misanthropical]

Holy Cow On A Stick! I can not believe that there are people walking around with that amount of stupidity seeping through their pores! I have never been divorced but I would have refused to answer those questions too and I don't care if they brought the POTUS in there to ask!

I have been to the ER with stupid accidents I have done to myself, but the nurses will still ask me, right in front of Mr. Mis, if someone else had hurt me and go on to pester me with it. I always stop and ask them if they really thought it was a good idea to ask me that question in front of the person they think might have hurt me. :rolleyes:

The hospital you went to should have done their best to treat you first or at least get you out of pain before they got their panties in a bunch about questions that should have never entered their mind to ask.

I really hope you help nail that hospital's balls to the wall. The questions they asked were over the line and they need to be reminded of that fact by huge ass fines!

[Sapphire Silk]

Well, I'll say this for CMS. They've kept me in the loop.

They spent two days on a site visit, and are currently evaluating the information they've gathered. That's all they've told me so far.

So hopefully in a few weeks I'll get a full report.

[Amina516]

Ooooo! Thanks for the update. :p I still cant believe they did that.

[Andrew B.]

Anything new on this?

[Pagan]

I can't see what where you were born has anything to do with anything. I would have been tempted to ask, while putting on my best Scottish brogue, "Why? Do you think I might have mad cow disease?"

And then I'd given them my last name(s) as: Kane Martin Brent Cudahy Chandler Montgomery Montgomery Chandler Marick Marick Montgomery

But then, I'm evil like that. :devil:

but the swelling is for all intensive purposes gone.

/nitpick/ It's "intents and purposes". Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine. Ignore the anal retentive in the corner. :D /nitpick off/

[Sapphire Silk]

I can't see what where you were born has anything to do with anything. I would have been tempted to ask, while putting on my best Scottish brogue, "Why? Do you think I might have mad cow disease?"

And then I'd given them my last name(s) as: Kane Martin Brent Cudahy Chandler Montgomery Montgomery Chandler Marick Marick Montgomery

But then, I'm evil like that. :devil:



/nitpick/ It's "intents and purposes". Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine. Ignore the anal retentive in the corner. :D /nitpick off/

No worries. I did a :doh: when I looked at what I wrote. I actually thank you for the correction :super:

And no, no updates yet. I've been a bit swamped with other issues. I'll probably call sometime next week to see where things are.

[EricKei]

And then I'd given them my last name(s) as: Kane Martin Brent Cudahy Chandler Montgomery Montgomery Chandler Marick Marick Montgomery

...And then you tell them how to pronounce it properly: Throatwobbler Mangrove MacFeaney ;)

[Pagan]

...And then you tell them how to pronounce it properly: Throatwobbler Mangrove MacFeaney ;)

Well, duh. Smith, of course!

[dalesys]

...And then you tell them how to pronounce it properly: Throatwobbler Mangrove MacFeaney ;)
Or Chumly Tolver. Spelled Cholmondeley Talliaferro.

[ArcticChicken]

Or Chumly Tolver. Spelled Cholmondeley Talliaferro.

I'm fond of Cholmondeley Featheringstonehaugh, myselfe (Chumly Fanshaw)

[dalesys]

Or their posteriority, with sass:
Leicester Cholmondeley Featheringstonehaugh Talliaferro, known as Lester, or Les for short.

[Shalom]

"If Niagara Falls had been located in Rhode Island, they'd have pronounced it Niffuls."

-- William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

[Sapphire Silk]

Bad news. I got the results of the investigation from CMS.

They said, "We did not confirm a violation of 42 CFR 489.24 or 42 CFR 489.20."

Basically, they're saying they can't prove the hospital did anything wrong.

So I called a medical malpractice attorney I know, and asked him his opinion.

His thought was that while the hospital staff did behave badly, it will be really hard to prove it in court because the courts often follow the "no harm no foul" rule. I wasn't actually harmed, merely aggravated. His suggestion was not to pursue legal action because it would be more expensive than it would be worth to me even if I won.

That's OK, actually. I don't want money from the hospital . . . I want them to change their practices.

So I'm going to send them a very unhappy letter of complaint and see what their risk management does with it from there. My lawyer friend is going to look it over before I send it and help me with language to get their attention.

This sucks though. My lawyer friend thinks the letter will do some good. I'm cynical. I'm not so sure.

We'll see I guess.

[draggar]

It's funny (and sad) how often some hospitals get away with violations and breaking the law.

[thatcrazyredhead]

I'm so sorry that your complaint isn't being upheld. :(

When I was in high school, I went to a doctor who made me fill out an entire packet of questions that were not medical history or any of her business. The packet had questions about whether anyone in my home consumed alcohol or owned a gun, whether I'd ever had thoughts of suicide, whether any of my friends had ever thought of suicide, my sexual orientation, my friends' sexual orientation, etc. It didn't seem at all relevant to the problem at hand (I was getting very dizzy very often and I wanted to know what was wrong with me) and so I asked her about it. Without even examining me, she decided the problem was in my ears. She smiled sweetly and said, "If we fix what's wrong with your ears, but then you go out and kill yourself, that would be a waste, wouldn't it?" I was 15, maybe 16, and scared that something was very wrong with me, so I let the matter drop. Now I wish I would have flatly refused to fill it out. Where does she get off, asking those kinds of questions?

[Sapphire Silk]

I'm so sorry that your complaint isn't being upheld. :(

When I was in high school, I went to a doctor who made me fill out an entire packet of questions that were not medical history or any of her business. The packet had questions about whether anyone in my home consumed alcohol or owned a gun, whether I'd ever had thoughts of suicide, whether any of my friends had ever thought of suicide, my sexual orientation, my friends' sexual orientation, etc. It didn't seem at all relevant to the problem at hand (I was getting very dizzy very often and I wanted to know what was wrong with me) and so I asked her about it. Without even examining me, she decided the problem was in my ears. She smiled sweetly and said, "If we fix what's wrong with your ears, but then you go out and kill yourself, that would be a waste, wouldn't it?" I was 15, maybe 16, and scared that something was very wrong with me, so I let the matter drop. Now I wish I would have flatly refused to fill it out. Where does she get off, asking those kinds of questions?

Actually . . . those questions are perfectly appropriate for patients starting with a new physician. They are screening questions that allow physicians to evaluate for risk of a variety of things such as:

Drug or alcohol abuse
Risk of STDs
Risk of pregnancy
Domestic violence
Mental illness
Risk for suicide.

While it may seem intrusive, questions about sexuality tells the physician about your risk for acquiring HIV, or engaging in other risky sexual behaviors (anal sex, for example, carries medical risks).

So your doc was actually doing her job.

She was a bit flippant about answering your question though. She should have just been straightforward about it.

[Nyoibo]

While it may seem intrusive, questions about sexuality tells the physician about your risk for acquiring HIV,

Also higher risk of depression or suicide.

[thatcrazyredhead]

While it may seem intrusive, questions about sexuality tells the physician about your risk for acquiring HIV, or engaging in other risky sexual behaviors (anal sex, for example, carries medical risks).

So your doc was actually doing her job.

I could understand it if I had come in for anything even remotely related to any of those things, but I wasn't. I would stand up from sitting down or lying down and I'd get very dizzy. I never passed out, but I'd have to hold onto something for about 10 to 30 seconds before I could see straight/support myself. That was all I was in there for, not to talk about who owns a gun or who might be gay.

[Pagan]

I would stand up from sitting down or lying down and I'd get very dizzy. I never passed out, but I'd have to hold onto something for about 10 to 30 seconds before I could see straight/support myself. That was all I was in there for, not to talk about who owns a gun or who might be gay.

I've had that for years and years and years! Doesn't always happen when I stand up, but if I've been sitting on the floor or I've squatted down to look at something, it'll happen then.

And, although it's never been diagnosed, I think I have a little bit of vertigo. But, that seems to stem from my allergies. It only seems to flare up in the spring and autumn. :shrug:

What I've never understood has to do with anything, is when I've gone in for, say, a throat infection and they ask when my last period was? Although it is amusing when they don't look at what Rxs I'm taking (Lybrel) and freak out that I haven't had a period in over a year. And I can't remember exactly when the last one was!

[EricKei]

I could understand it if I had come in for anything even remotely related to any of those things, but I wasn't. I would stand up from sitting down or lying down and I'd get very dizzy. I never passed out, but I'd have to hold onto something for about 10 to 30 seconds before I could see straight/support myself. If this started happening after beginning to take a new med or meds, as the prescribing doctor about this. If not, bring it up on your next checkup.

I have this problem, but I did not until I began taking meds for high blood pressure and edema. Allowing my pressure to get too LOW, in particular, makes this more likely to happen (at least, in my case -- I carry a portable monitor in my laptop bag), but I have had it happen at random any given time that I stand or sit, especially if I do so too quickly. In my case, at least, it's a know issue with the meds I'm taking.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I had a dentist's office hand me a sheaf of papers to fill out, and I was happy to do so until the questions just got straight up bizarre.

I wrote "Seriously?" in the blank to answer the first one and ignored everything else after that. Handed it back it without even saying anything about it.

Nobody said shit to me about it, either. And it's a good damn thing, too.

[Sapphire Silk]

I could understand it if I had come in for anything even remotely related to any of those things, but I wasn't. I would stand up from sitting down or lying down and I'd get very dizzy. I never passed out, but I'd have to hold onto something for about 10 to 30 seconds before I could see straight/support myself. That was all I was in there for, not to talk about who owns a gun or who might be gay.

You've completely missed my point, then. Going to see the doctor is not about the quick fix. These sorts of screenings are a very important part of your overall health care.

I had a dentist's office hand me a sheaf of papers to fill out, and I was happy to do so until the questions just got straight up bizarre.

I wrote "Seriously?" in the blank to answer the first one and ignored everything else after that. Handed it back it without even saying anything about it.

Nobody said shit to me about it, either. And it's a good damn thing, too.

True, if a patient refused to answer screening questions, I wouldn't press them, either. I'd write "Declined to answer," and let it go at that. We HAVE to ask certain questions.

You don't have to answer.

But the questions SHOULD have some relevance to a health care need. In my case, the answers were purely about registration issues; they had NO medical relevance and the registration clerk admitted as much.

In thatcrazyredhead's case, the questions were relevant in that the doctor had a responsibility to screen for specific kinds of problems as part of the ongoing doctor-patient relationship. Those questions, while they may not have seemed to relate to the specific problem she went in for (I can't know for sure, not having seen all the questions) DO relate to the long term doctor-patient relationship.

I am curious, though. What was the first question?

[dalesys]

I am curious, though. What was the first question?
Have you stopped beating your cat?:p

[thatcrazyredhead]

You've completely missed my point, then. Going to see the doctor is not about the quick fix. These sorts of screenings are a very important part of your overall health care.



I fail to see what whether anyone in my home owned a gun or whether any of my FRIENDS were sexually active/gay/using drugs/drinking has to do with MY health. :confused:

[Dragon_Dreamer]

Peer groups, honestly. Also, easy access to guns = easy ability to use them, possibly. You said she was a new doctor to you. Even if YOU weren't going to keep seeing her, SHE didn't know that, and it's best to have a profile of a patient to begin with.

If many of someone's friends are using drugs, maybe they've pressured that someone into doing them. If their friends are having sex, that could pressure the patient into having sex. If many of that person's friends are LGBT, the patient might have been the victim of some discrimination and teasing for it.

A patient's mental health is often a good predictor of their physical health. She wasn't trying to be nosy, she was trying to get a picture of you, so she could best help you IN THE FUTURE.

It's all standard stuff, really. I've gone to a few new doctors, and know they're only trying to get info, even if its unrelated to the current issue, to have on hand to help with later issues. Plus, sometimes things that SEEM unrelated can actually be at the root of an issue.

I've been lucky with my GP, at least. My doctor has seen me and my family since we moved to this area in the 1940s, so they've known me and my mom literally since birth. My file with them is THICK. And if they didn't have me answer those questions every few years, they wouldn't have such a complete picture of my health.

They're the ones who pinned down my sulfur allergy, because I ate certain foods and would get extremely sick. And when I got old enough and certain WINES were making me sick, they taught me to look for the amount of sulfites in the wine. Because they also had my family history, they were able to teach me to look out for the signs of alcohol abuse in myself, because there are alcoholics on both sides of my family. My parents are teetotallers for the same reason. I am very careful with how much I drink.

If you don't feel comfortable answering some questions, your doctor usually won't pressure you to do so. It doesn't mean they aren't valid.

And Panacea's situation was a case of stuff they probably did not need to know. :P The only guess I can venture for maiden name was maybe to cross-reference her records? Dunno. Still, they should not have pressured her when she declined.

[thatcrazyredhead]

Peer groups, honestly. Also, easy access to guns = easy ability to use them, possibly. You said she was a new doctor to you. Even if YOU weren't going to keep seeing her, SHE didn't know that, and it's best to have a profile of a patient to begin with.

If many of someone's friends are using drugs, maybe they've pressured that someone into doing them. If their friends are having sex, that could pressure the patient into having sex. If many of that person's friends are LGBT, the patient might have been the victim of some discrimination and teasing for it.



I am and always have been my own person. Whatever my friends do is what they do, not necessarily what I do. I can understand wanting all that information if I or my mother had expressed concern for my mental or emotional health (we had not) or if this woman was in the phsychological field (she was not). It all just felt very invasive, and when I expressed concern at having to give so much deeply personal information to a complete stranger, she DID pressure me about it.

Oh, well, live and learn. In the future, I will simply write "none of your damn business" and leave it at that. ;)

[Dragon_Dreamer]

Sounds good, though keep in mind that she had no way of knowing that. That questionnaire was given to ALL her patients, and not all had the strength of will you do. :) One size fits all kinda thing. :) You're right that she shouldn't have pressured you.

Just playing devil's advocate. :) Hope your dizziness spells have ceased!

[Sapphire Silk]

I fail to see what whether anyone in my home owned a gun or whether any of my FRIENDS were sexually active/gay/using drugs/drinking has to do with MY health. :confused:

Because they tell the doctor something about risk factors and risky behaviors. Transmission rates of STDs, potential for violence (either as perpetrator or victim) are both strongly connected to the presence of guns in a home, use of alcohol and/or drugs, and sexual practices (monogamous relationships aren't, but many sexual partners IS, especially if of both sexes. Types of sexual behaviors, ie anal sex, BDSM, use of alcohol/drugs during sex all increase risks). It has a lot to do with your health: doctors are trying to contain the spread of STDs, which are on the rise. HIV infections are way, way up, and the biggest jump is in the gay community (younger gays aren't familiar with what the disease does and are abandoning safe sex practices). It really does matter.

And Panacea's situation was a case of stuff they probably did not need to know. :P The only guess I can venture for maiden name was maybe to cross-reference her records? Dunno. Still, they should not have pressured her when she declined.

Exactly. They don't need my Social Security Number. That has nothing to do with my health care. It is used to run a credit check, nothing more. That's not a legitimate request, and the government urges citizens NOT to provide it to businesses with no need to know (such as a bank when applying for a loan) to prevent identity theft.

Place of Birth is a demographic used for marketing purposes. That's not a legit health care request.

Marital status may be, the hospital may want to know if there's a husband who may come along. But with many partners (male and female) hiding from abusive spouses, a better question is, "Who is authorized to know you are here?"

Maiden name and aliases may seem reasonable (to see if you've ever registered under another name), but see my answer to Marital Status.

I am and always have been my own person. Whatever my friends do is what they do, not necessarily what I do. I can understand wanting all that information if I or my mother had expressed concern for my mental or emotional health (we had not) or if this woman was in the phsychological field (she was not). It all just felt very invasive, and when I expressed concern at having to give so much deeply personal information to a complete stranger, she DID pressure me about it.

Oh, well, live and learn. In the future, I will simply write "none of your damn business" and leave it at that. ;)

No one suggested you weren't your own person. But because you don't understand the relevance of the question doesn't make it a bad question. Ask for the purpose of the answers. If you don't like the answers you can always decline.

"None of your damn business" is your choice to write down, but it is hardly the first response I would choose. I would simply leave it blank (which is what I did in my instance), and then state, "I don't want to answer that question", or "You do not need to know that." "None of your business" is what I did answer at one point, but without the profanity and only after having been repeatedly pressed.

When I worked in an ER, and I asked a screening question someone didn't want to answer, I didn't push them. I simply wrote, "Patient declines to answer," and moved on.

[Nyoibo]

These questions are there to cover someones ass, if I have a client who doesn't answer questions and something I do causes a reaction, whatever it may be, well, not my fault and tough shit, there's usually reasons for questions asked, usually because there's a precedent, I wouldn't have asked clients if they're suffering from depression, but after someone comitted suicide because of a severe emotional release after a treatment, you damn sure better believe I'm going to ask.

[wolfie]

I'm so sorry that your complaint isn't being upheld. :(

When I was in high school, I went to a doctor who made me fill out an entire packet of questions that were not medical history or any of her business. The packet had questions about whether anyone in my home consumed alcohol or owned a gun, whether I'd ever had thoughts of suicide, whether any of my friends had ever thought of suicide, my sexual orientation, my friends' sexual orientation, etc. It didn't seem at all relevant to the problem at hand (I was getting very dizzy very often and I wanted to know what was wrong with me) and so I asked her about it. Without even examining me, she decided the problem was in my ears. She smiled sweetly and said, "If we fix what's wrong with your ears, but then you go out and kill yourself, that would be a waste, wouldn't it?" I was 15, maybe 16, and scared that something was very wrong with me, so I let the matter drop. Now I wish I would have flatly refused to fill it out. Where does she get off, asking those kinds of questions?

Would be interesting to see how they would handle that one being answered "Only when health care professionals, instead of treating the problem I came in with, demand that I answer a long list of irrelevant questions".

[Shalom]

Although it is amusing when they don't look at what Rxs I'm taking (Lybrel) and freak out that I haven't had a period in over a year.

:lol:

What do they think Lybrel is for, anyway...?

[Pagan]

:lol:

What do they think Lybrel is for, anyway...?

It's called they don't bother to read my chart. Just look at what I put down on the yearly update sheet and then don't read that closely since I list that as the only med that I take (well, besides the odd ASA and anti-histamine). Then they proceed to freak out. Honestly, I don't think the read past the line that says, "Date of last menstrual period." :rolleyes: