This won't end well

[Rapscallion]

I never expected to be able to use the Sickbay to report an encounter, but...

I work in wholefoods, and we have some natural remedies and so forth, but not a huge amount. Of course, it being natural makes all the difference to how good it is. I encountered one such today. M rang from a shop we supply. M is a natural ratbag of elder nature.

M: I've got a customer here and her baby is twenty months old and wakes every hour during the night. She wants to know if you can supply valerian root to help her baby sleep.

Me: Er, we discontinued it a long time back [thinking "thank fuck we did"] and there's no way I could advocate giving it to a baby.

M: Why not?

Me: Medical liability issue? It's never the same strength two times running, and she should really see her pediatrician about something like this. We've not been to medical school for several years.

M: Oh, she's been, but she doesn't want to use the prescription chemicals and wants something natural.

Brainee rebootee.

We're talking about wanting something of random strength due to seasonal variations instead of tested prescription product that has probably the same chemicals in there? On a twenty-month old baby?

I did my best to impress upon her that we're not going to advise that they go down this route, that they need professional medical advice, and we don't sell the root these days anyway.

Apparently aniseed works the same, she'd heard. Yes, I reiterated once more that I couldn't advise this.

I've documented this in our CRM software. I hope I've covered our arses.

Rapscallion

[RecoveringKinkoid]

People don't take herbal remedies seriously. Well, put it this way: people who think like this don't.

And they are dangerous in the hands of people like this.

[telecom_goddess]

I can understand wanting to go the natural route, and they should actually see a naturopath if that's what they want to do.

Valerian root does work well, I've only tried it on myself as an adult.

The baby wouldn't like the taste of it anyway, it's NASTY tasting. And stinks.

[iradney]

well gee guys, it's NATURAL innit? So it's GOTTA be good for you, right? Well then, here, eat some poison ivy - it's NATURAL! </sarcasm>

[morgana]

well gee guys, it's NATURAL innit? So it's GOTTA be good for you, right? Well then, here, eat some poison ivy - it's NATURAL! </sarcasm>

Or hemlock! It's natural, too.

So're volcanoes! And ticks! And smallpox! And . . .

I've either had too much chocolate today, or not enough. Gonna go sit in the corner now. :rolleyes:

[trailerparkmedic]

From a professor of mine:

Professor (working as a nurse practitioner): "You need to use artificial sweetners."
Diabetic pt: "Oh, it's ok. I only use honey and that's ok for me because it's natural."
Professor: "It's going to naturally increase your blood sugar."

[AnaKhouri]

When Khan was teething, several people recommended an all-natural 'teething tablet' for the pain. When I looked at the box, I saw the main ingredient was belldonna! While belladonna can be used as an anesthetic, it was also used to kill at least one Roman emperor...I decided I didn't want my kid to end up dead if someone had measured wrong when they were making the tablets. :eek:

[Little Retail Rabbit]

When Khan was teething, several people recommended an all-natural 'teething tablet' for the pain. When I looked at the box, I saw the main ingredient was belldonna! While belladonna can be used as an anesthetic, it was also used to kill at least one Roman emperor...I decided I didn't want my kid to end up dead if someone had measured wrong when they were making the tablets. :eek:

Blimey! That sounds a bit...MUCH...for teething relief!

I personally just recommend giving cucumber slices as a snack to the kiddy. Probs a lot cheaper too ;)

[nicolecj]

Belladonna is also excellent for making your eye wide and beautiful while slowly blinding you. It was used historically by the english aristocracy when the belles of the ball just needed to look pretty, and I guess they did not need to see.

[Mikkel]

Hell, Taxotere, a chemotherapy drug used against breast cancer, is developed from sap of yew trees. It isn't really healthy to take if unnecessary.

[Sapphire Silk]

People confuse "natural" with "good for you."

The two are not necessarily one and the same.

I get the impression that the customer in question had been to medical school (whether or not she graduated). If so she should know better.

I'm glad you documented and covered your arse, Raps. When she poisons her kid, she'll blame the "stupid customer service reps who sold it to me."

I've used some allopathic/naturopathic products. Some may have the potential to work. I've found some uses for essential oils, even though the scientific evidence is lax. Valerian root doesn't work for me . . . I know others who say it does. As long as you make informed choices, that's one thing. But kids can't make informed choices.

Parents should avoid giving "natural" products to kids because of the issues of efficacy . . . until there's enough vigorous scientific proof of safety and efficacy, it's just better to avoid them.

Bottom line is we're still putting chemicals in our bodies. They may not always work the way we expect them to, natural or not.

[ArcticChicken]

well gee guys, it's NATURAL innit? So it's GOTTA be good for you, right? Well then, here, eat some poison ivy - it's NATURAL! </sarcasm>

I'm told there exists a study that shows that people believe that "natural" products work better and have fewer side effects than artificial products, even if they contain the same stuff.

Belladonna is also excellent for making your eye wide and beautiful while slowly blinding you. It was used historically by the english aristocracy when the belles of the ball just needed to look pretty, and I guess they did not need to see.

Dude, all the makeup used to be poison. Lead to make you pale, arsenic for... um, something, I can't remember.

[Teskeria]

arsenic gives you a lovely pale skin while slowly killing you. if you take the same amount steadily, you get fat, but the minute you stop taking it, you die as it floods your system. Horse sellers would slowly feed arsenic to a poor horse to make it look fat and healthy, sell it and leave town quickly, before the horse died from not recieving its daily dose of arsenic.

[Shalom]

When Khan was teething, several people recommended an all-natural 'teething tablet' for the pain. When I looked at the box, I saw the main ingredient was belladonna! While belladonna can be used as an anesthetic, it was also used to kill at least one Roman emperor...I decided I didn't want my kid to end up dead if someone had measured wrong when they were making the tablets. :eek:

I know the product you're thinking of. There may have been alkaloids of belladonna in there at some point, but by the time they've got done diluting it 1:10 three times, there's not a hell of a lot left. They claim 0.000 009 5% alkaloids in it. Nowhere do they say how much each pellet weighs, but the entire thing, bottle, box and all, weighs 1.1 ounces, so guessing at about half that for the pellets. 15 grams more or less. Divide that by 135 pellets and you get about 110mg per pellet. At that percentage rate, there's 0.000 000 010 5 grams, or about ten and a half nanograms of active ingredient per pellet.

I don't think you've got to worry...

[Mishi]

Wasn't arsenic also used for male impotence/erectile dysfunction?

[Yarnil]

M: I've got a customer here and her baby is twenty months old and wakes every hour during the night. She wants to know if you can supply valerian root to help her baby sleep.


Try Chamomile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamomile) next time.

[Rapscallion]

Try Chamomile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamomile) next time.

A colleague of mine reckons a drop or two of lavender oil on the pillow should help, but we're not medical professionals and quite frankly I'm scared of potential legal retribution. Me belong big softy.

Rapscallion

[Kristev]

My psych professor once reminded us during a class discussion that: "Just because something is all natural doesn't mean it's completely safe. Remember, rattle snake venom is all natural, too."

[Ghel]

You know what they call alternative medicines that have been demonstrated to be effective?

Medicine.

[wolfie]

Hell, Taxotere, a chemotherapy drug used against breast cancer, is developed from sap of yew trees. It isn't really healthy to take if unnecessary.

Definitely - there's a reason why Yew was called "the doubly deadly tree". All parts of the plant are poisonous (chemotherapy drugs are simply a poison that kills the cancer faster than it kills the patient), and it was also associated with "clothyard shaft poisoning" (the medeval equivalent of Old West "acute case of lead poisoning").

[Seshat]

I would have no problem using foxglove extract as a treatment for certain heart problems.

I would, however, insist on a form of foxglove extract that was extremely refined, with the dosage of the key chemical (digitalis) carefully measured so that it varied very little from tablet to tablet, and was delivered with safe, inert filler should filler be necessary.

In other words; digitalis tablets from the pharmacy would be fine.


When Khan was teething, several people recommended an all-natural 'teething tablet' for the pain. When I looked at the box, I saw the main ingredient was belldonna!

I love how they used "belladonna" as the name, rather than "deadly nightshade".


(Side note: for safety's sake, don't grow foxgloves if you have children, pets, or forgetful elderly people in your family. And never, EVER handle them without gloves.)

[Marmalady]

There's also a widespread idea that 'natural' and 'chemical' are mutually exclusive.

I remember a CW who wouldn't drink tea or coffee, only water, because he didn't want any 'chemicals' inside him. He was startled, to put it mildly, when I pointed out that he was drinking oxygen dihydride.

[RetailMom]

What the hell kind of pediatrician prescribes sleeping pills to a twenty month old anyway? If a child really is waking up every hour then there is an underlying problem to be solved. Maybe try to figure out where the issues are instead of creating a possibly life long dependency on a drug?

Side note...those teething tablets mentioned were recalled once. Apparently there was a problem with a specific lot that could have been dangerous. An SC found some on the shelf that the associate missed when she was doing the original pull.

Me: I am sorry, I cannot sell you these. They have been recalled due to a possible contaminant.

SC: I know about the recall, the people at the drugstore told me. I want them anyway, and you have to sell them to me since they were still on your shelf. The recall is stupid. There is nothing wrong with them.

Me: :eek: They are potentially dangerous, or the makers would not have recalled them. And I can't sell them. The register won't even let them go through.

SC: I know you can override that, get me a manager!

Me: ma'am I AM a manager, the one that is telling you I can't override this.

SC: Can't or won't?

Me: Can't and won't. I refuse to risk a child's health and safety. Have a nice day.

At this point I took offending product and walked away before I got really angry!

[Sapphire Silk]

Me: I am sorry, I cannot sell you these. They have been recalled due to a possible contaminant.

SC: I know about the recall, the people at the drugstore told me. I want them anyway, and you have to sell them to me since they were still on your shelf. The recall is stupid. There is nothing wrong with them.

Nothing wrong with them? And she knows this how?

Stupid, stupid, stupid. :doh:

[Rapscallion]

What the hell kind of pediatrician prescribes sleeping pills to a twenty month old anyway?

I have no idea if they were actually sleeping pills. It may have been something to address an underlying issue. All I know from the call is that she'd been to a trained medical professional, one licenced to make prescriptions of potentially dangerous chemicals, one who has spent several years at medical school to gain this knowledge, and knows dosing requirements based on the child's age and weight etc.

She'd got the prescription and advice, whatever it was, and promptly decided to ignore it to try and get something 'natural', because that must be better, right? The product in question could be of wildly differing strengths from year to year based on rainfall or sub-variety of plant involved.

You can give some people good advice based on tested experience, and then watch some of them piss it up against the wall. I'm not taking the blame for her if she kills her baby.

Rapscallion

[RetailMom]

Stupid, stupid, woman! Some people should never be allowed to be parents!
Valerian can be dangerous stuff even to a grown up.

[houdini]

Stupid, stupid, woman! Some people should never be allowed to be parents!

To quote Pratchett: "There really should be an examination before people are allowed to be parents. A written test, I mean, not just the practical."

[AquaGirl]

My mother is a certified herbalist. My brother and I grew up in a kitchen stocked with jars of herbs. Some of them had stickers on the labels. Why? Because they were potentially dangerous. Story-terrible story: I had a pregnant coworker whose boyfriend was less than thrilled about impending parenthood. She knew I knew something about herbs ( I am no expert, have just learned through osmosis) and asked me if I knew anything about this tea her boyfriend had given her that he said would help her morning sickness. It was pennyroyal. Anyone who's heard of it-or is a Nirvana fan-would know that pennyroyal has long been used by women as a tool for abortion. She apparently didn't trust him with good reason.

[Hyndis]

The funny thing about stuff with "all natural" ingredients is whats the alternative?

Supernatural ingredients? Is that thing made out of ground up ghosts or something? :roll:


Many good things can be found in the world without needing to be synthetically manufactured. Aspirin, penicillin, and quinine are some examples.

However through synthetic manufacture or through processing you can always be assured of the quality and purity of it, rather than just eating bark or mold and hoping for the best.

[Mishi]

@Aquagirl - Was she okay? I hope she ditched that boyfriend, people have died from complications after using Pennyroyal as an abortifacient.

[AquaGirl]

@Aquagirl - Was she okay? I hope she ditched that boyfriend, people have died from complications after using Pennyroyal as an abortifacient.

Thank goodness she was suspicious and asked before she tried them. You are right, I would never recommend it be used this way. It works-but it may work too well. Unfortunately her good judgement only went so far: her boyfriend swore that he was told by "someone" that pennyroyal is good for morning sickness (which I just can't believe) and last I heard they were still together.

[ArcticChicken]

A colleague of mine reckons a drop or two of lavender oil on the pillow should help

Lavender is supposed to help you sleep. My mom used to put a couple drops of it on the light bulb of the lamp next to my bed most nights, now the smell of lavender oil makes me nauseous. (Oddly enough, I love the smell of dried lavenders, and Johnson and Johnson lavender baby oil)

[AquaGirl]

Lavender is supposed to help you sleep. My mom used to put a couple drops of it on the light bulb of the lamp next to my bed most nights, now the smell of lavender oil makes me nauseous. (Oddly enough, I love the smell of dried lavenders, and Johnson and Johnson lavender baby oil)

Lavender definitely makes me relax. Eucalyptus helps me too and smells soooo good.

[Sapphire Silk]

I recommend lavender to my students to help them relax before an exam if they are having test anxiety. Peppermint seems to work good for that, too.

[boringscreenname]

What the hell kind of pediatrician prescribes sleeping pills to a twenty month old anyway? If a child really is waking up every hour then there is an underlying problem to be solved. Maybe try to figure out where the issues are instead of creating a possibly life long dependency on a drug?

Side note...those teething tablets mentioned were recalled once. Apparently there was a problem with a specific lot that could have been dangerous. An SC found some on the shelf that the associate missed when she was doing the original pull.

Me: I am sorry, I cannot sell you these. They have been recalled due to a possible contaminant.

SC: I know about the recall, the people at the drugstore told me. I want them anyway, and you have to sell them to me since they were still on your shelf. The recall is stupid. There is nothing wrong with them.

Me: :eek: They are potentially dangerous, or the makers would not have recalled them. And I can't sell them. The register won't even let them go through.

SC: I know you can override that, get me a manager!

Me: ma'am I AM a manager, the one that is telling you I can't override this.

SC: Can't or won't?

Me: Can't and won't. I refuse to risk a child's health and safety. Have a nice day.

At this point I took offending product and walked away before I got really angry!

I was just going to say those teething tablets were recalled since some kids were showing signs of Belladonna Poisoning and because of substandard manufacturing conditions. Kinda makes me wonder about the other "natural" remedies they still have available for sale.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm230761.htm

[CaroPhoenix]

I get the lavender baby oil/lotion for Child Rum. Usually after a bath (or shower, in case I have to wash her hair), I will rub the oil/lotion into her skin. If she's not ready for bed after the bath, then she most definitely is after that! :lol:

Speaking of lavender, I have some growing in my backyard. How do I properly pick it and dry it out?

[Seshat]

Prune it back heavily.* Take the prettiest and most flower-filled lengths from the pruning, shorten the stems to just above the leaves.

Tie a string to each stem (like tying strings to balloons.) Make bundles of ten or fifteen stems by knotting those strings together. Hang upside down in a dry, dark place. If necessary, put them in a cupboard with kitty litter, those 'silicon bead' water-absorbers, or those garden 'water crystals' to absorb any humidity that gets in.

Leave for a month or so, checking every week to see if it's going mouldy. If it is, discard that batch and try again with more kitty litter (or whatever).


* Or not. But my lavender always needs pruning back, and responds well to a heavy prune.

[Little Retail Rabbit]

Thank goodness she was suspicious and asked before she tried them. You are right, I would never recommend it be used this way. It works-but it may work too well. Unfortunately her good judgement only went so far: her boyfriend swore that he was told by "someone" that pennyroyal is good for morning sickness (which I just can't believe) and last I heard they were still together.

BLIMEY! Pennyroyal!!!

The woman was smart for not taking it before checking, but I can't help but think kinda dumb for sticking with someone who would have suggested it >.<


I used to use lavender a lot when I had insomnia and stress at school. I don't use it as much now, but it does still tend to help me unwind. I mainly have incense now, but my mum has just started planting lavender in the garden, so maybe we could use bits for potpourri? :)

[DGoddessChardonnay]

I can understand wanting to go the natural route, and they should actually see a naturopath if that's what they want to do.

Valerian root does work well, I've only tried it on myself as an adult.

The baby wouldn't like the taste of it anyway, it's NASTY tasting. And stinks.

It's a strong, yeasty smell that reminds me of rotting cat poop. :puke:

But it does work pretty well . . . I used it for a time when I was on several other meds at the time and was having difficulty sleeping.

[PepperElf]

my own favorite sleep remedy is pretty good and has almost no side effects.... soft music on my ipod. or edgar cayce's grandson talking. knocks me out in 15 minutes or so usually ;)

[SongsOfDragons]

My housemate and I found some lavendar chocolate in Sainsbury's. Epic stuff - tastes great, and I'm out like a light about half an hour later... My mum found some lavendar sugar on holiday (like vanilla sugar, only instead of vanilla pods in the sugar there's lavendar sprigs) but wasn't sure whether to buy it for me...:( Can't find it online either.

I guess there's something romantic about all that old herbal stuff. I've done loads of research into it for a world-building project, at a time where they haven't quite got to the stage of really being able to refine the active ingredient - they still rely on willowbark tea. Not exactly the most effective; I'm glad for paracetamol. I also enjoyed a documentary series on TV recently, Victorian Pharmacy.

[Flying Grype]

I've got a lavender/anise perfume oil from Black Phoenix that's very soothing at bedtime. Who knows if it works better than a placebo for actually helping start sleep. It's nice.

[Seshat]

As long as its harmless... does it matter?

[Aisling]

My mum found some lavendar sugar on holiday (like vanilla sugar, only instead of vanilla pods in the sugar there's lavendar sprigs) but wasn't sure whether to buy it for me...:( Can't find it online either.

You can make your own. All you need is edible-grade dried lavender. I find 2 Tbsp. of buds per pound of granulated sugar works pretty well. Mix everything together in a dry glass or plastic container, and store someplace dark and dry. Stir about once a week. It should be ready in a month. When you want to use the sugar, pour it through a strainer to get the lavender out. The buds can be returned to the large container, and more sugar added. The buds should last a couple of years, at which point you'll want to start fresh.

The same works with vanilla pods, rose buds, and hibiscus. Also, you can scent/flavor salt the same way. Hibiscus salt is amazing.

[Rapscallion]

Today's medical marvel was someone claiming they were allergic to sugar. Fruit sugar was fine, but ordinary sugar was right out.

Wow, this is a pretty rare occurrence. Intolerance, sure, but allergy? From everything I know, it's not a true allergy, and only an intolerance.

However, the veil of acceptability of her claims was swept away by the melodramatic language used to define a supplier of ours being unable to supply us with suger-free, organic cereal. When the word 'tragedy' is thrown around, you know they're full of shit.

Rapscallion

[RetailMom]

My four year old just learned the word "tragedy." She can be a bit of a drama queen, so it has become a favorite. Yesterday her baby brother took a toy she wanted, and it was a "tragedy."

Sugar allergy? Really? I mean REALLY? I have never heard of a true allergy to sugar before.

[Seshat]

My wife has sugar intolerance. (Not histamine-reaction. Her reactions are more akin to coelic symptoms. Digestive system problems.)

But it's not just sucrose ('ordinary sugar'). It's fructose and lactose as well. Probably glucose. (Lord help her if she ever develops diabetes!)

I suspect your customer, Raps, didn't understand what she'd been told.

[Rapscallion]

She did say that fructose was fine, but if it said 'sugar' anywhere on the packaging she couldn't have it. I could have explained that fructose (along with lactose) is sugar, but I could also have found a strong wind and pissed into it - the effect would have been the same.

Rapscallion

[Tsiyeria]

I've used some allopathic/naturopathic products.

Nitpicky, but allopathic is "mainstream" (pharmaceutical) medicine. Homeopathic is what you're looking for. The idea is that homeopathic uses remedies that incur the same symptoms "homeo-pathic" while pharmaceuticals use chemicals that incur different symptoms (like a drug that induces constipation to stop diarrhea).

Back OT, why would she want to give valerian to a baby!? If an adult OD's on a valerian supplement it can cause trouble (do it bad enough, it can kill you). Clearly she has not done any research at all. When I worked at the vitamin store I usually recommended that people try some less intense stuff first. Chamomile, for one.

[pageantmama]

I can understand sleeping problems in children and wanting to try anything because you have had less then an hour of sleep and have to go to work. Every night for 3 years straight:eek:
My oldest son is autistic and from about 6 months on he had HORRIBLE night terrors that would wake him up. We tried everything the doctor suggested to help him and finally went to someone to try some more natural remedies to help calm him down and help him sleep. We had tried the Calms Forte for kids by Hylands and they were kind of a hit and miss but it did help a little. Once he was about a year old we realized that we could gently wake him up a few times during the night around the time he would normally have a night terror and it would help him not have them as often. As he got older we realized that he was a very high needs and anxious child and on days we went to the store and was around a lot of people, or if anything had changed in his routine that day, he had a hard time going to sleep and night terrors all night. Now that he is 8 we have a soothing bed time routine to calm down from the days events and if he is still having a hard time he takes a small dose of Melatonin and is fine.

The doctor had prescribed a strong antihistamine that would supposedly calm him down and help him sleep when he was 2 and it made it worse after a while. They had also prescribed a sleep medicine and an antianxiety medication for him at 4 and all of a sudden he was constantly crying and talking about dying. He can communicate and he said he felt like his brain was broken and he couldn't think right and he wanted to die:cry: I called his doctor immediately and she said they wanted to admit him and I told her I just wanted to get him off the meds. She tried to tell me that they had nothing to do with it and she thought he was just bi polar and he needed to be admitted. I found a new doctor the next day that helped me wean him off the meds and now he is fine.

Sorry, I kind of go off track lol.

[Sapphire Silk]

My oldest son is autistic and from about 6 months on he had HORRIBLE night terrors that would wake him up. <snip>
The doctor had prescribed a strong antihistamine that would supposedly calm him down and help him sleep when he was 2 and it made it worse after a while. They had also prescribed a sleep medicine and an antianxiety medication for him at 4 and all of a sudden he was constantly crying and talking about dying. He can communicate and he said he felt like his brain was broken and he couldn't think right and he wanted to die:cry: I called his doctor immediately and she said they wanted to admit him and I told her I just wanted to get him off the meds. She tried to tell me that they had nothing to do with it and she thought he was just bi polar and he needed to be admitted. I found a new doctor the next day that helped me wean him off the meds and now he is fine.

Sorry, I kind of go off track lol.

Antihistamines often have that effect on very young children, which is part of why they generally are not recommending.

And the side effect from the anti anxiety meds are not uncommon either. I'm glad you got a new doc. . . . that lady was (pardon the pun) crazy to suggest your son was bi polar.

[Ironclad Alibi]

All this discussion of getting children to go to sleep requires the mention of a forthcoming book, Go The Fuck To Sleep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_the_Fuck_to_Sleep).

[Misanthropical]

Some one take that child away from that woman before she kills the kid! :eek:

I know I can't be the only mother who does massive research on any medication that my child is prescribed! I just can't wrap my mind around giving my child something that might kill them!

[LadyAndreca]

I would have no problem using foxglove extract as a treatment for certain heart problems.

I would, however, insist on a form of foxglove extract that was extremely refined, with the dosage of the key chemical (digitalis) carefully measured so that it varied very little from tablet to tablet, and was delivered with safe, inert filler should filler be necessary.

In other words; digitalis tablets from the pharmacy would be fine.




I love how they used "belladonna" as the name, rather than "deadly nightshade".


(Side note: for safety's sake, don't grow foxgloves if you have children, pets, or forgetful elderly people in your family. And never, EVER handle them without gloves.)

Thank you for posting this. We've started carrying them at work, and I've taken to warning people with small children that they're poisonous. I'd known, but forgotten...until I was wondering what that gorgeous flower I'd never seen was, checked the tag and went "Foxglove, cool, so that's what it looks like. Wait...digitalis...that sounds familiar, wasn't that in that thread...?"

[Dragon_Dreamer]

We started carrying sweet pea growing kits last year during the spring. I also warn people about the fact that they're poisonous. Too many people see "pea" and think they'll be edible. >.<

[Seshat]

You're most welcome, LadyAndreca.

Many, MANY garden plants are quite dangerous.

[Nyoibo]

Most people can go out into their garden and find half a dozen plants that you can distil poison from.

[LadyAndreca]

I keep a running list of plants I can't have because they're poisonous to my cats (and have the links saved on my phone for quick reference when I shop for myself), but I'd never really paid attention to what's poisonous to humans before.

[Mishi]

I'm really careful about which plants I grow, anything that can be dangerous is planted in my front garden where my kids can't access them without supervision (ie. Rue, Wormwood, Daffodils, Hyacinths.). Almost everything we grow in the backyard is childsafe, I even managed to kill off the asparagus fern! The only 'dangerous' plants are some roses and raspberries, but my girls know to ask for help when they want to pick them.