This almost didn't end well.

[Mishi]

Raps' thread reminded me of a story I heard during an antenatal visit with a midwife.

I went for my 30 week check-up for my second successful pregnancy and saw a bottle of Raspberry Leaf tablets on the midwife's desk. "Oh, good" I said "I've been meaning to ask you when I can safely start taking those." A horrifed look crossed my midwife's face "Those are very dangerous, I can't recommend them." I was confused, "But I took a gradully increasing dose of them during the last few weeks of Jazzy's pregnancy and had a low-pain labour with no need for any assistance." My midwife re-checked my file, relaxed a little and said "Since you know how to use them safely and haven't had a bad reaction to them, that's okay. Start taking them from 34-35 weeks and slowly increase the dose." She then told me this story:

A woman presented at Birth Suite, around 30 weeks into her first pregnancy with heavy bleeding and regular contractions. She told them she hadn't been doing anything out of the ordinary, had been resting and relaxing, not taking any medication, fairly normal blood pressure, non-smoker, non-drinker, healthy and up until now, a low-risk pregnancy. After two days of trying to stabalise her and giving her shots to build the (surprisingly) unstressed baby's lungs up... while the doctors scrambled to figure out what was wrong ... a nurse walked in on the woman blithely swallowing a double dose of raspberry leaf tablets. The nurse snatched the pills away from her and stormed off to collect a doctor, who was a little more diplomatic. The woman apparently threw a huge hissy fit which boiled down to "But they're natural, that makes them safe!"
After that, the doctors were able to stem the bleeding and transferred her to a hosptial specialising in neo-natal care. The empty bottle was sent down to the Antenatal Care Unit, so that the midwifes would know to remind the expectant mothers not to take it.

My midwife ended the story with: "And this is why we can no longer recommend these tablets or the tea."

[Aethian]

I don't get it... Do they act like a blood thinner?

[Mishi]

Sorry, should have specified - it's used to tone the uterine muscles after 32 weeks, with a gradually increasing dose, to assist with regular contractions and also help to avoid excessive bleeding. Sometimes used in small doses in very early pregnancy to avoid miscarriage. Also helps with lactation. It's sometimes used by people to 'bring on' labour, as a large dose can cause contractions. As with all medications, it can be dangerous or cause odd side-effects.

[AquaGirl]

I drank one cup of the tea a day from 32 weeks on and I think that and the evening primrose oil helped a lot with my labor and delivery but I did a lot of research before I used either one. You would think that someone would be more careful during pregnancy.

[Miss Maple Leaf]

"But they're natural, that makes them safe!"

Oh, I hate that attitude with a passion. :doh:

Arsenic is natural, would she consider that safe?

I hope her poor kid turned out all right. :(

[Kristev]

I say again, as my college psych professor once told us:

"Remember, rattle snake venom is all natural, too."

[telecom_goddess]

Again I say natural herbs are a better way to go but if you don't know what you're doing you should see a naturopath.

Gotta admit that some of these herbs DO work and have effects.

I'm a big believer in herbs and supplements.

[Seshat]

Herbs DO work, and that's precisely why I like to get mine refined, and in specific doses, with no additional, unplanned substances.

Foxglove -> Digitalis.
Willowbark -> Aspirin.
A particular bread mold -> Penicillin.
Botulism toxin -> Botox.
Marijuana -> THC and four other cannabis molecules
Pineapple -> Bromelin
Poppy -> All opiates (and opiods - synthetic opiates - were inspired by poppy)
Quinine Tree -> Quinine
Ephedra -> Pseudoephedrine
Strychnine -> Strychnine
Pennyroyal -> now-deprecated abortificants (too hard on the patient)

Plus many, MANY others.

[Sapphire Silk]

Herbs DO work, and that's precisely why I like to get mine refined, and in specific doses, with no additional, unplanned substances.

Foxglove -> Digitalis.
Willowbark -> Aspirin.
A particular bread mold -> Penicillin.
Botulism toxin -> Botox.
Marijuana -> THC and four other cannabis molecules
Pineapple -> Bromelin
Poppy -> All opiates (and opiods - synthetic opiates - were inspired by poppy)
Quinine Tree -> Quinine
Ephedra -> Pseudoephedrine
Strychnine -> Strychnine
Pennyroyal -> now-deprecated abortificants (too hard on the patient)

Plus many, MANY others.

Not all herbs have the benefit claimed.

St. John's Wort has not been shown to be effective in treating depression. At best, it produces the placebo effect.

Ginko has not been shown to improve memory, or ecchanachia to boost the immune system.

Your mileage may vary.

[Seshat]

The placebo effect can be very useful!

But you're right, I shouldn't have made a blanket statement. Let me correct that: some plants (and animals, and minerals) do contain medically useful substances.

Unrefined, the plants (animals, minerals) contain the substances in dosages and qualities that vary from specimen to specimen. For plants, it'll vary depending on the soil it's grown in, the weather in the year or season its grown, etc. Heck, even the mood the harvester is in can affect how much extraneous substance is in the batch.
Animals and minerals have similar variations. (Though with minerals, the variation is on a geological, not meteorological time scale.)

With some plants, the effective substances are sufficiently mild that this variation doesn't matter. Pick a lemon, stud it with cloves, hang it in the bathroom by a ribbon, you have a pretty pomander that smells good and tends to improve your mood.
Dry some lavender flowers, stick them in your linen closet, and unless anyone in the family is allergic, it may well help you sleep. (I'm not actually sure if lavender is a known soporific, but have heard it said anecdotally.)


With others, the substances are extremely powerful. In my opinion, anyone who tries to treat heart problems with foxglove tea rather than properly prepared digitalis tablets is insane!
Foxglove's key substance - digitalis - is extremely powerful.


Annnnnnywayyyyy... yeah. Naturopathy or herbal medicine with licorice, lavender, lemon, and other lower-impact substances isn't my personal cup of tea (pun intended), but is relatively harmless as long as your pharmacist knows about it.

But if they start offering you foxglove, pennyroyal, and the other powerful ones, run!

[telecom_goddess]

Pineapple is an herb?

The one I use the most is peppermint for upset stomachs. Ginger is good for that too.

Speaking of ginger can a root be an herb?

[Sapphire Silk]

The placebo effect can be very useful!

Oh, I agree. I'd actually like to see investigation into the use of the placebo effect as a clinical tool. But it's considered unethical, unfortunately, to lie to the patient.


With others, the substances are extremely powerful. In my opinion, anyone who tries to treat heart problems with foxglove tea rather than properly prepared digitalis tablets is insane!
Foxglove's key substance - digitalis - is extremely powerful.

You ain't whistlin' Dixie! I've seen dig OD's . . . some intentional. Fortunately, there is an antidote. But I definately agree . . . taking foxglove tea is just nuts.

Annnnnnywayyyyy... yeah. Naturopathy or herbal medicine with licorice, lavender, lemon, and other lower-impact substances isn't my personal cup of tea (pun intended), but is relatively harmless as long as your pharmacist knows about it.

But if they start offering you foxglove, pennyroyal, and the other powerful ones, run!

Even benign appearing naturopathic products can have adverse interactions with certain medications.

For example, people taking Coumadin need to be care about Vitamin K . . . because it undoes what the Coumadin is given to do, slow the coagulation process (Vit K starts it).

Grapefruit juice has adverse interactions with a number of medications including statins, benzodiazapenes, and some heart medications.

St John's wort interferes with oral contraceptives, making them less effective (the contraceptives that is).

Always tell your pharmacist and doctor about any naturopathic products you are taking so they can screen for incompatibilities.

[Seshat]

I guess it depends on whether you're using the culinary, 'natural medicine' or botanical definition of 'herb'.

Willowbark is definitely not part of the botanical definition, and has no culinary use, but counts in the 'natural medicine' use.
Botanical: "A herbaceous plant (in botanical use simply herb) is a plant that has leaves and stems that die down at the end of the growing season to the soil level. They have no persistent woody stem above ground. Herbaceous plants may be annuals, biennials or perennials."
Culinary: go to your supermarket and look at the 'herbs and spices' section.
Natural Medicine: ask your naturopath, or check out the 'natural medicine' part of your pharmacy.


Panacea:
I WANT to be given a placebo for my pain. Pain control with zero side effects? GIMME GIMME!!!

[blas]

Some people just don't comprehend that while suppliments are natural and good, there are some that just do not mix with certain conditions or medications.

[Seshat]

Indeed.

Aspirin used to be derived from willowbark; and is still the same molecule. So if you're taking aspirin and you take willowbark tea as well, don't be surprised when you get the 'too much aspirin' effects. (Which, IIRC, can be quite nasty.)

Thus the whole 'talk to your pharmacist' thing people like Panacea and I harp on about. :P

[SongsOfDragons]

Grapefruit juice has adverse interactions with a number of medications including statins, benzodiazapenes, and some heart medications.


I have been told that grapefruit and rosemary are no-no's for me, because being stimulants they are not good for epileptics.