A little hypersensitivity from the mods.

[Mark Healey]

I've noticed that a few threads have been shut down and people chasened (in the most polite way) for what I believe to be the most PC of reasons. I've not kept track of which mods or threads so I'll just speak of themes.

People have been told to withold racial* identification if it isn't relevant. The good posts give the information needed for the reader to form a picture in his mind. The people involved in the transactions aren't restroom door silouhetes. They have physical traits which frequently can be conveyed in a single racial label.

A similiar attitude seems to be taken towards religeon. Religion is a choice, and everyones choices about everything are up to criticism.

Trying to enforce the ethnic label of the week. Specifically objecting to the term "oriental". It just means "eastern", as in people from the eastern edge of the eurasian land mass. "Asian" is too broad a term. Asia is huge. Nobody refers to Ghandi, or Stalin as "Asian" even though they were from Asia.

And finally one that applies to me. I am one of those people who gets nasty with telemarketers. The people called by them are not customers. Customers seek out the business, telemarketers interrupt peoples lives with no indication that they are interrested and no concern about what they might be doing at the time. Because of this their complaints aren't relevant here.

*This is where people usually put disclaimers that they aren't a racist, which is bullshit. We all are to a certain degree. We just have to be aware of that and monitor our selves when we know we might be jumping to inappropriate conclusions.

[Rapscallion]

It's the way we choose to run the board.

I don't want people logging on, hoping to enjoy sharing tales of their horrific day at the counter, when they come across a post saying that everyone of their particular ethnic origin smells funny or are generally thieves etc. I want the board open for all.

Religion - and other controversial subjects - can go to Fratching where it won't pollute this board with the inevitable fights. When I took over here, I didn't truly believe how nasty it could get. I know better now. That's why I spent money on the license for the spare board at Fratching.

Telemarketers - where does that involve customers sucking? The people receiving the calls are the ones who are the potential customers. That post was made in the sucky customers section - I'm very seriously considering moving it to off topic, because it is off topic. Some forum members do work as telemarketers, or have done. I don't know anyone who has done so as a career choice ("Hey, I've got a career as a director of a company, but I want to downsize into telesales - what a splendid idea!") - it's either that or not paying the rent. They do what they have to to survive. They're doing a job that someone is willing to pay them to do, and they have to follow a certain script or be written up.

Hey, how about screaming at a cashier who has to ask you if you want a store card when you go to the register? Same difference. They'll get written up if they don't make enough signings in a certain time, but it's head office who make that decision to have them try to push it on you, not them. Of course, it's fine to scream at them on the same logic, isn't it?

Sure, telesales people could get other jobs. Since you think them so low, what other jobs would they be suited for? Prostitution, perhaps? They work as telesales because there's frag all else available that won't degrade them more.

Do you really want to tell some of your fellow forumers that they are scum because of the job they had to take? Just think about the customers who demean counter staff because they're working in retail before answering that one.

Raspcallion

[Rapscallion]

My apologies to the original poster in the thread in question - I'd not re-read it to see that you'd taken a job in that field. If I was going to move the thread, it would be to general work chat instead of off topic.

I suppose it just adds weight to my argument that we're not here to attack each other, considering the above. If you want to ban telemarketing, contact your senator or other relevant politician. Leave it off here.

Rapscallion

[Ree]

Quoth Mark Healey

Trying to enforce the ethnic label of the week. Specifically objecting to the term "oriental". It just means "eastern", as in people from the eastern edge of the eurasian land mass. "Asian" is too broad a term. Asia is huge. Nobody refers to Ghandi, or Stalin as "Asian" even though they were from Asia.

I believe the thread in which that issue came up was from a person who deals with racial bias ALL DAY LONG!!!
The context in which she used the term was to report what she knew was a racist comment, only to have people jump on her and argue whether that term was racist or not.

You know what? In that case, I didn't care to hear arguments about whether PC had run amok.
I saw someone venting about a sucky customer, only to be shot down by the very people who are supposed to be offering support.

As for the rest of your post, I think all of those things are covered in the site rules.
Have you read them?
http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=190

Quoth Rapscallion

<snip>

2. Free Speech
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by Rapscallion. While we do allow members to speak their minds the only person that actually has complete freedom of speech on Customers Suck! is Rapscallion. For those interested in the First Amendment, it doesn't cover private arenas and it doesn't cover servers that are not in the US. Take the hint.
<snip>

B. Enforcement

1. Staff authority
Customers Suck! moderators have absolute authority, and are granted unequivocal discretion at editing or striking any post; or warning, restricting, and banning members as necessary if a member breaks any of the rules of the board. Furthermore, Rapscallion has the right to do whatever he wishes. Remember, ownership has its privileges!
<snip>

2. No Offensive or Controversial Content
Offensive and controverial content on this board includes derogatory comments directed at any particular race, religion, or sex; excessive profanity; lewd or lascivious posts; plus anything that the moderators may deem offensive to a significant number of our members.
<snip>We could put up an extensive list of what is acceptable or not, but you have common sense so use it. If a moderator tells you that you are going over the limit of what we consider acceptable, it's a learning experience.
<snip>


9. Respect Other Members
Please remember that for every member there is a human being behind the screen name. Please respect them. It's fine to disagree with another member's opinions; but if you choose to debate them, stick to the issue and do not resort to flames, personal attacks, or even grammar flames. If you feel that you couldn't say something directly to a person's face, then it's probably not a good idea to post it as a message. Also, bear in mind that this site is visited by people worldwide. There are people here of many different nationalities, backgrounds, races, religions. Please treat them with the same courtesy you would expect for yourself.
<snip>

[Pedersen]

Before anything else, I have to say this: Ree, Raps, I must remember to follow my first rule of survival: Never piss the two of you off

Seriously, I think the two of you answered things pretty thoroughly, but I'm going to throw in my two cents as just a reader/poster, not a moderator.

Quoth Mark Healey

People have been told to withold racial* identification if it isn't relevant. The good posts give the information needed for the reader to form a picture in his mind. The people involved in the transactions aren't restroom door silouhetes. They have physical traits which frequently can be conveyed in a single racial label.

However, what does mentioning the race do for the story? Saying that somebody is a wanna-be gangbanger provides enough detail, and leaves the race out entirely. Person could be black, white, Asian, or pygmy (for anybody that reads, enjoy the mental image of a pygmy being the wanna-ba gangbanger).

Unless there is something specific that gets added, why bother adding it? If the person's physical appearance matters, it can be described. If their race genuinely matters, it can be named. It almost never matters.

What's the point of mentioning it, except to reinforce stereotypes? We're supposed to be adults. Thinking people. Capable of making decisions based on actions, as opposed to appearances. Yes, appearances matter. For the purposes of helping people vent, very rarely do they matter.

Now, take my comments above, and substitute religion for racism. They apply equally as well.

Calling this complaint specious would be a disservice to specious complaints, since they can usually have some inkling of merit, somewhere.

Quoth Mark Healey

Trying to enforce the ethnic label of the week. Specifically objecting to the term "oriental". It just means "eastern", as in people from the eastern edge of the eurasian land mass. "Asian" is too broad a term. Asia is huge. Nobody refers to Ghandi, or Stalin as "Asian" even though they were from Asia.

I haven't seen this, but can understand the desire for it. A perfect example would be the use of the term "spic" instead of "Latino", or something similar. I've known people who throw out racial slurs like they're going out of style. I've done it myself when no other word is capable of describing how upset I am at someone of a different ethnicity.

That doesn't make it right. And I don't say it to the person. Now, try to guess my ethnicity. Good luck. And keep in mind that any of those terms can be used to describe any number of people. And whatever ethnicity you are, there are negative names for that one, too. If you doubt me, tell me, and I'll give you a list of (at least) 10 words which you will not like which could be used to name your ethnicity.

Leaving it out where possible, and using something non-offensive, is simply good manners. If you don't wish to use them, then I think you're going to have multiple run ins with the mods here. Good luck with that.

Quoth Mark Healey

And finally one that applies to me. I am one of those people who gets nasty with telemarketers. The people called by them are not customers. Customers seek out the business, telemarketers interrupt peoples lives with no indication that they are interrested and no concern about what they might be doing at the time. Because of this their complaints aren't relevant here.

Look: I've tried to do telemarketing, because there was no other job I could find. It sucks. If telemarketers so bother you, take this tactic:

"I'm sorry, I'm not interested. Please place me on your do not call list. I'm hanging up the phone now. Good bye."

Hang up, and walk away from it. While it's not the most courteous thing in the world, it doesn't make their day suck worse, and at least it lets them off the hook for how to deal with you.

Finally, I have to say this: This is the only online community I've stayed with for more than a month since I stopped MUD'ding about 13 years ago. Every place else has seemed more hostile, and more prone to drama, than I wanted to deal with. If the mods took your suggestions to heart, I'd leave. Sure, my contributions aren't huge, but I've already posted (in just a few months) about 1/3 of what I've posted over on Slashdot, where I've been an active reader for about 10 years. That community is not very inviting. This one is.

That being said, I genuinely hope the mods do not take your suggestions. They would degrade the quality of the forums seriously.

Oh, and on another note: If you have a post which might violate site rules, send it in a PM to one of the mods. I've sent two of them. They gave me the go ahead for one of them, and the other they asked me not to post. It's not that difficult, and keeps everybody happier.

Any mods out there: Thank you. You do a great job of keeping this board a place that I enjoy coming to.

[Ree]

Quoth Pedersen

Before anything else, I have to say this: Ree, Raps, I must remember to follow my first rule of survival: Never piss the two of you off

Thanks, but I wasn't really "pissed off".

I just don't understand how a website that has lasted for close to 10 years and survived numerous hacks, maintaining the same basic philosophy throughout, can suddenly come under criticism for being hypersensitive.

The rules have been the same for as long as I can remember, with only very small tweaks and minor rewording of points to clarify issues or personalize them.

Many of those who complain about the philosophy joined this board already in progress, and should have known what to expect.
Reading of the rules is required in order to register, but as with many of the sucky customers we complain about, I suspect many just skim over them and blindly hit the "I accept" button, and then backtrack later to question the policies because they missed it the first time.

It's all very simple. You are free to dislike certain policies around here, but keep in mind that we don't adapt the board to suit the whims of a member just because they find it restricting. We expect the member to adapt their behaviour to suit the board.

[iradney]

I like the rules and regs here. I agreed to them when I joined and do my utmost to follow them.
To complain about it after being a member for X amount of weeks, after reading the thousands of threads, and Mod comments - that's kinda sucky.
Let's face it - if this were a customer situation, where they agreed to something, lived with the agreement for a while, even had constant reminders about the contents of the agreement, and then they complain - everyone would be saying "what a SC!"
I like CS. I like that flame wars are not allowed. I like that people cannot slag off a certain race/religion/lifestyle choice etc. That is why I will stay here, and encourage other people to read and join.
That's my 2c.

[B&NGoddess]

i just thought id pop in and let mr. healey know that not everyone is against him.

i agree on some points. i totally see the hypersensitivity he's referring to. but, as was pointed out, we're playing in Raps' backyard and have to follow his rules. because its only fun until someone loses an eye.

[Kiwi]

No site is perfect, personality conflicts and diagreements will always happen on a site this large. You cant make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time.
If I spent the time and money that Raps did on this site, I would run it differently but I dont, so I wont.
I applaud you for voicing your opinion though, not enough people stand up when they see something is wrong.

[myswtghst]

Quoth Mark Healey

And finally one that applies to me. I am one of those people who gets nasty with telemarketers. The people called by them are not customers. Customers seek out the business, telemarketers interrupt peoples lives with no indication that they are interrested and no concern about what they might be doing at the time. Because of this their complaints aren't relevant here.

I just wanted to respond to this comment, if I may. I am not a telemarketer, but I do work in a call center and have to make outbound calls. I occasionally get ahold of someone at an inoportune time, or reach someone who should no longer be listed as a contact, and I get upset when I am treated horribly or cussed out, as I am simply doing my job.

I'm perfectly ok with hanging up on telemarketers, and having a good time messing with ones who do not take no for an answer or call repeatedly, but I try to keep in mind that they are simply doing their job. I know far too many people who've been forced into the industry because they *needed* money and could not find another job, and I've heard many a horror story from people who couldn't handle the heat, but had to keep calling so they didn't get fired and end up broke or evicted.

I think it's perfectly fine to all have our own opinions, but I do think it's fair for telemarketer types to be able to post their stories here--some of them can be quite funny, especially if they wind up calling some of my friends.