D&D help...

[Sapphire Silk]

the players on horses wouldn't take 2 weeks to get there. a return trip (weather permitting) would take 4 days.

The length of time is you're moving a lot of stuff with a lot of people, and animals.

Some other ideas for my ranger type...sores develop on the carting beasts from new harnesses.

These creatures are sure footed, they have heavy barrel chests with large capacities, 6 not long but not short and stubby legs, and the males measure 6 feet at the withers.

Remember that the Roman Legions could march about 18 miles a day. A man on horseback does about the same. Why? Because horse back riding is more about saving your effort than it is about speed. Riders going for speed change horses frequently because going at a fast clip all day wears out the horse quickly.

Even if you're generous, you should not be able to travel more than 30 miles in a day on horseback. That's one big hex on the old maps like the Greyhawk maps.

Draft animals with cargo, about 10 miles/day, assuming good road conditions.

A new harness shouldn't cause a draft animal issues unless the handler is inexperienced. A broken axle or wheel was a more common problem, especially if the roads are muddy due to rain.

There is no such thing as a random encounter. Let me explain. Every 'random encounter' has a reason for it built right in to the mechanics of the game.

I disagree. The Random encounters chart that come with most pre made adventures have no reason at all other than to throw a monkey wrench into the game. If you plan the encounter in advance, it is not random.

If you plan an encounter, you should have a specific plot purpose to it.

Encounter rogues? They are probably waiting for an easier and/or richer mark. They just happen to have spotted your group first, and you looked like easy pickings.

Sure. In real life. In fiction, even a chance encounter has a story plot behind it; it's not random violence, it's meant to advance the story in some way. Example: the cave in the Misty Mountains where Bilbo was attacked by goblins. The story did two things: added excitement to the story, and most importantly split Bilbo off from the dwarves to force him to solve his own problems and save his own life. It also introduced the Ring to the story (although the Ring and Gollum were not meant to have a larger role beyond the Hobbit originally; Tolkien wasn't planning a sequel). Without that adventure, Bilbo's actions at the Lonely Mountain would have no context; they wouldn't make sense compared to how he behaved at the Unexpected Party. The same goes for the encounters in the Mirkwood.

But a random attack by robbers needs to have something more to it than a chance to kill monsters or get killed by them. Who are the robbers? Is there someone among their numbers the DM wants the players to meet and talk to? Do they have a motivation other than enriching themselves that is important to the story? If there is no larger point to be made then the encounter is in fact random and pointless.

farmer Johnson is moving his cattle to market, and they stubbornly block the adventurers way .. and are not about to move. Could be something as simple as being in the wrong place at the wrong time.. OR farmer Johnson could be a scout for a local gang of ruffians.. he scouts the groups numbers .. and sends information back to them.

If you've thought it that far ahead, then the encounter isn't random. It's part of the plot. Which is what it should be. The plot doesn't have to be complicated. In fact, it is better to keep it simple because you can never tell how players will react to the simplest thing (see the Knights of the Dinnertable story line on the magic cow).

Here's one I like to spring on groups in wilderness areas:

Dam It!

Take the giant- or gargantuan- template and apply it to a family of beavers. The huge beavers have built their dam about a mile downstream from the only ford across a river for dozens of miles, leading to the river to back up over the banks, and making the ford too deep to use. Now let the party use their heads to figure out a solution.

Note that the riverbed past the dam would be much lower in water, but very, very muddy. Attempting to even walk across the area without precautions will lead to characters sinking up to the waist , or horses to get mired in the muck.

This one is mainly for the roleplaying, as the beavers aren't particularly vicious, but may defend the dam and den they've built at GM's discretion. Also really fun if there is a druid in the party.

Now that's an interesting encounter in a wilderness adventure. Animals can't be negotiated with, but they can have impact on the game if you are clever, and it requires the players to be clever as well. Brute force could succeed . . . . but at a heavy cost when it comes to giant animals like that.

My GM has used Mother Nature to great effect in our games. He ran one scenario for my ranger where she had to avoid roaming orcs in the mountains and deal with bad weather, swollen rivers, and a lost horse. She was on a deadline to get to her destination. The adventure was in coping with the environment; in coming up with solutions to the natural problems. There was no way brute force would get her out of the trouble with the orcs she encountered, or past the natural obstacles.

If he'd thrown in more monsters, though, he would have made it impossible for her to survive because she literally could not fight her way out of every situation, and it wasn't always possible to run, either.

[Mytical]

Sapphire Silk - My examples were just that, examples. I used my own home made random charts, rolled it, and on the spot came up with WHY it was happening off the top of my head. So, yes.. they were random. Which is why I say there is no such thing as a random encounter. Yes, you can roll random encounters.. but it is not hard to imagine WHY this encounter came about.

Even as something as simple as seeing a young girl (talking 9-10 or about) struggling with buckets of water. Why are they out gathering water? Where did they come from? Why would the adventurers care? Just off the top of my head, with very little thought.. I can come up with a dozen reasons for this girl being on a road, alone, and why they need the water.

Do DM's not do that? Absolutely. Does there really need to be a reason why they come upon a group of goblins? No. I am just saying that even if you have very limited imagination (and if you do, then why are you running a game, and not playing in it instead?) there are built in reasons for every random encounter. Doesn't have to be complicated or anything.

As random examples.. lets take goblins. In fact the same exact goblin encounter, all with different reasons the goblins are where they are.

Food has become scarce for the goblins. They are out searching for food, any food. They are not hostile to the players, the players don't look like easy food.. and they wouldn't be interested in the group at all. The players however, see goblin .. and most assume the worst (or think 'easy exp') .. and attack and kill the goblins .. dooming the female and child goblins to starve.

An ogre has moved in, and is bullying the goblins about.. and the goblins want to take it out on the first group they see that they might have a chance against. They attack without warning or provocation.. just because they can.

They are moving out of their former area, because a dragon moved IN. Neutral reaction to the group, neither hostile or friendly. They just want as far from the dragon as they can get.

So you can use random rolls without just being about keeping the group busy, or about exp/loot. There are dozens of reasons a random roll happens.. all a person has to do is put a bit of effort into it.

[EricKei]

The goblin example made me think -- are there any characters in the party who are either Paladins, or otherwise bound to a specific alignment, such as a priest(ess) of a diety who actually cares that their clergy stick to said diety's world view?

The Pally/LG types are easiest to mess with; you can always set up a "Choose Law OR Good" type of situation. Is the caravan transporting known criminals? Diseased items or animals meant to, in effect, kill off a sizable chunk of the dwarf population where they're headed? Cursed items/artefacts (the diety could clue them in to the latter) that must be destroyed, even though doing so would mean getting kicked off of the job without pay?

Other issues, on top of the weather problems so thoroughly covered, could be the difficulty of finding food and water in the mountains, especially if something ... unfortunate ... were to happen to the supplies they brought. They could always slaughter a pack animal or two for food if desperate, but that would slow things down.

Perhaps a random traveller or two happens by and wants a ride, but didn't bring their own provisions/weapons/etc. Perhaps said traveller, predictably enough, is the diety who considers these mountains to be his turf.

[Sapphire Silk]

Sapphire Silk - My examples were just that, examples. I used my own home made random charts, rolled it, and on the spot came up with WHY it was happening off the top of my head. So, yes.. they were random. Which is why I say there is no such thing as a random encounter. Yes, you can roll random encounters.. but it is not hard to imagine WHY this encounter came about.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If you didn't plan it out ahead of time, it's random, even if you are very good and coming up with explanations on the fly. In spite of that, it's still, IMHO, Wandering Damage and as a player it really pisses me off because no matter how plausible the explanation, it very rarely advances the plot in any way.

We simply have very different gaming styles.

[Mytical]

Ok, I will agree to disagree. . Not all random rolls have to have damage involved of any type. In fact, most of my random rolls are more to add spice then "Meet X creature here, fight." In my game it is never good to assume anything. That troll might just be a lawful good troll carrying needed supplies to an orphanage. No race is all evil or all good. There can be Golden Dragons that think Dragons are superior and should rule with might, and Black Dragons that just rescued drowning kittens. Though, most of my randomness happens in town, not wondering monsters.

Why? Because it can be boring to go to town for supplies. Sure you can have "Merchant 134 of the weaponsmith's guild.. or you can have "Dee Malzone, loving husband and father of 3 children that are his life, who dreams of becoming a mastercrafter of blades!" Since it is very tedious to make every npc for every town.. random charts are your friend.

That being said.. it is an adventure. Things happen. Storms or other disasters for instance. The characters are not sitting at home where it is safe. Random things happen out in the world. Especially in the untamed wilds that would be in the time period. I like to account for that. If nothing unexpected happens to the characters.. wouldn't that be kind of .. dull?

[Ironclad Alibi]

You mentioned the two week time frame for getting to their destination. Use boring stretches of the road to advance the time by several days if the party is getting delayed too much. This will ensure they arrive on time. Unless the plot is to have them get there late, of course.

For other events, an earthquake or landslide could cause a detour.

[Sapphire Silk]

Why? Because it can be boring to go to town for supplies. <snip>

That being said.. it is an adventure. Things happen. Storms or other disasters for instance. The characters are not sitting at home where it is safe. Random things happen out in the world. Especially in the untamed wilds that would be in the time period. I like to account for that. If nothing unexpected happens to the characters.. wouldn't that be kind of .. dull?

I would say it doesn't have to be random to be unexpected

My GM is very, very good at taking the most obscure things that I say or do and turning it into a major issue for my character. Whether it's in a good or bad way really depends on how I respond to it.

I hope I didn't come across as critical. Looking back over the thread, I was just trying to explain how I view things but I don't want to give the impression our way of gaming is the only way to have fun. That's the bottom line really; if everyone is having fun, that's the important thing

[Sarlon]

bit more information....people saying this is a low level campaign....the players are all 8th level.

[Seshat]

High enough to probably have 'purify water', low enough to be unable to make food out of nothing. Or, for that matter, to make water out of nothing. Oh, I'm evil, I am.


Slow 'em down by making them work for food and water (heavy rainstorm ruins badly packed food supplies?), then give 'em a roadblock that looks like it might tie into the plot or might be innocent... (make 'em work to figure that out). They'll be scrambling and (hopefully) inventive trying to work out how to make up the time.

Let them come up with the means of making up the time. Have something in reserve in case they can't figure a viable solution, but if they come up with something feasible, let it work. Not easily, but well enough to be satisfying to them.

[MaggieTheCat]

High enough to probably have 'purify water', low enough to be unable to make food out of nothing. Or, for that matter, to make water out of nothing.

Depends on the game system. In 3.5 & Pathfinder, Create Water is a 0 level orison, meaning any 1st level cleric can cast it as long as they prepare it for the day. Create Food & Water is a 3rd level spell, so any 5th level cleric can cast it if they prepare it. I'm unfamiliar with later editions, though.

[Sarlon]

sorry I'm being REALLY vague with this group....but i know one member is in my group....and a few others lurk....this is a 3.5 game, homebrew world (something of my own creation).

Human Wizard

Human fighter

human monk

dwarf cleric

halfing ranger

Forgot the race rogue.

[MaggieTheCat]

Well, the obvious smash and grab encounter would be hill giants as they're getting into the mountains where the dwarf settlement is. They're terrain-appropriate and the right CR for that level group. Things could turn real ugly real fast 'cuz hill giants, especially a pack of them, will start destroying regular old caravans pretty quick before the party can take them all down. You could turn it into a quasi-diplomatic encounter (if your group isn't a pack of murder hobos) where the hill giants are demanding some kind of toll or favor or something in exchange for safe passage through their territory.

For something a little more outside the box, but that will also require a little more work, you could set up a murder mystery. One morning during the journey, one of the random workers who's part of the caravan ends up dead. Every night someone, or maybe an increasing number of people, dies until the party figures out what's going on, which is that another member of the caravan is actually a werewolf/vampire/doppleganger/take your pick of some other shapeshifter who's infiltrated the group. You could set up a potential villain for later on if you let them get away. Why were they picking off members of the caravan? Did they just want to kill people randomly, or were they killing specific people, like the family of the caravan leader because they have a grudge against them for some reason? Keep in mind that if your party likes to keep a night watch you will have to deal with that.

With a cleric and a wizard both at level 8 they will have a multitude of spells at their disposal to aid them in a lot of "mundane" encounters like spoiled food, illness, broken equipment, etc.

[Ashcroft]

Oglaf is an NSFW comic with lots of fun stuff. They occasionally produce SFW strips like this relevant one http://oglaf.com/turn-back/ .

Everyone has great recommendations. The only thing I can think of that is relevant to your story is making the halflings attempt to summon rain to their parched fields. Either with a cursed object, phylactery or through an unscrupulous sorcerer. It makes travel difficult, you have to manage another society trying to eek by. Top it off with the weather changes messing with their delivery window (either through the local weather or it affecting the mountain storms) and you have a problem the caravan, party and NPCs all need to be taken care of as quickly as possible.