A little hypersensitivity from the mods.

[Lace Neil Singer]

How many roads must a man walk down before he admits that he's lost? Does that count? XD

My take on the board is thusly; I have boards I go on to enjoy full on anarchy. This is not one of them, and if it becomes one, I will be a sad panda.

[katie kaboom]

My take on the board is thusly; I have boards I go on to enjoy full on anarchy. This is not one of them, and if it becomes one, I will be a sad panda.

There doesn't have to be full on anarchy for the people around here to lighten up a little bit. Countless threads get closed at the first sign that there might be a little controversy. It really is getting out of hand. I've seen threads closed simply because they went off topic. Why is that such a big deal? In real life, conversations go off topic all the time. So why does a message board have to be any different?

[Ree]

I've seen threads closed simply because they went off topic. Why is that such a big deal? In real life, conversations go off topic all the time. So why does a message board have to be any different?

I would think that would depend on how badly off topic they went, and in which direction.

If it's gone to the sewer, well, we really aren't that kind of message board, and we do try to maintain a certain image. If it's gone to a debate, well, once again that is why we have www.fratching.com
If it's gone past a debate, and animosity is starting to brew, we nip it in the bud.

Sometimes, a thread simply gets closed when there is no more discussion to be had on a certain subject, and all that is going on is nothing but nonsense banter.
That borders on post padding, and that's something that's really frowned on too.

Quality over quantity.

[Rapscallion]

There doesn't have to be full on anarchy for the people around here to lighten up a little bit. Countless threads get closed at the first sign that there might be a little controversy. It really is getting out of hand. I've seen threads closed simply because they went off topic. Why is that such a big deal? In real life, conversations go off topic all the time. So why does a message board have to be any different?

Generally speaking, if you see a closed thread, there's often some deleted posts involved.

Rapscallion

[NightAngel]

Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and say this:

There is a good deal of goings on that you guys do not see or know about.
There are, and always have been, reasons for the things we do. Many times posts are reported by a member or members but we don't dash in and go, "OH MY GOD! SOMEONE REPORTED THIS POST! INFRACTIONS FOR ALL!" Heck, usually we don't even mention it was reported.
As a matter of fact quite a number of reported posts we don't do anything about because, after discussion, we decide it's okay or that we'll see where it goes. Sometimes, it goes fine... sometimes not and when it doesn't we step in.

Here's what I say to ALL of you:

You want us to lighten up?

Then READ and FOLLOW the Site Rules.
USE the REPORT BUTTON like we have to request time and time again.
DO NOT bring up those topics that we ALL know perfectly good and well are going to go to Hell in a handbasket because they always do. (For example: illegal immigration).
PM a mod or admin if you aren't sure if a subject/post/whatever is too controversial for the site.
If it IS controversial- take it to Fratching.
Don't post every. single. thing. that pops into your head. You might be amazed at some of the stuff I think about posting ()... but I exercise SELF CONTROL.
Remember- there is such a thing as Too Much Information.

In other words- take some steps yourselves.

You guys know we try and maintain a high level of integrity because the nature of this site could very simply put- make people hate retail workers.

There is nothing wrong with venting. That's what this site is for.
As far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with the occasional cussing, etc. as long as your posts don't consistantly have the F-Bomb every other word (or similar). (Other mods may have different opinions.)

The other thing you have to remember is that some of our member base are kids. (Yes, I'm sure that it's terrible to some of you that I think of you as kids- but I have a son who is nearly your age. That's the way it is.) Those of you who are 'grown folk' need to think about that before you post.

Also, try and remember that not everyone on the other side of the computer screen looks and feels just like you. We have all colors, sizes, shapes, nationalities of members. Some of us are from big cities and others of us are from down on the farm.
And YES, people DO get their feelings hurt/get defensive when you make a negative blanket statement that includes them.

Actually, ALL of this has been said over and over again across many, many threads.

Anyway... I'm tired and I've rambled off a bit. But there you go- that's pretty much how I feel.

[Luna]

My answer to your question Katie composes of a few things.

Steering OT threads back on topic is useful. I am on here maybe once or twice a week if I'm lucky. I won't bore anyone with my life - but let's say that's all I have to spare. It annoys me personally to have to read through threads to learn nothing useful to the topic it was started on. I guess if we didn't want topics at all, the entire board would be off topic. I think it'd be pretty boring.

Some OT things are nipped in the bud quickly because past experience tells us no matter how nice the thread is now, it won't be. I can't even begin to tell you how many threads are shut down b/c of all out flame wars on a topic that started as a nice adult talk. I think it's a good assumption that when a Mod closes an iffy thread fast without a warning - it's because we've already seen this happen - sometimes hundreds- of times before.

In my 4 hours I've been on line today - I try to skim through as much as I can. What was reported in my absence? Was it fixed? Are there any threads that are hurtful? Is the general public (you guys and gals) offended or angered by such a thread? What can I do to ensure trolls aren't ruining our posting experience? Have any rules been updated? Check my PMs. Are the newbies that signed up following the site rules? Read their threads. And then, maybe - if I'm lucky - I can read some threads simply for the sake of pleasure.

A lot of times, things are reported that I personally don't understand why they are reported. People have different views as to what is offensive and hurtful and what is not. There are people who want us to lighten up, and then there are people who ask "why did you guys miss this - why is this here?" It is extremely difficult to balance the two and try to maintain a positive experience for all involved on such a huge message board.

Many times a thread being closed has to do with the direct reprimand of a CS member. Maybe their post was deleted so the general public has no idea why the thread has been closed. We could make public about why it was closed if it isn't obvious, and humiliate another member, or we can just let it be and move on.

Raps created Fratching for controversial or "hot" topics. This gives everyone the opportunity to bring topics not allowed for the sake of peacefulness here - to somewhere where you can go at it and voice your opinions all you want. However, last I checked - the board is very little used and just by a select small group.

Would anyone like to discuss why they think that is? I hear your desire to want to speak freely of hot topics here - but given the opportunity at Fratching, it's obvious that not many take Raps up on that offer. Why would this be? It's stated in the CS site rules that controversial topics will not be allowed. So arguing that is really pointless. What I'd like to know is why people don't take advantage of Fratching more instead of wanting to do it here?

I value your opinions and I think this is a great thread that will help us keep the CS community strong. Keep posting people!

I'm off to see my nephew.

[NightWolf]

I've got a question. What happened to my post in the Off Topic section? I'm sure I probably offended some people, but I have no PM, so I have no clue whats going on here.

I've already PM'd GBM instead of resorting to forum thrashings to work out our little issue.

[Greenday]

I've always loved CS. It's defintiely the best forums out there. And the mods are pretty great. They are pretty intelligent and don't take crap from people. They are really responsive when you have a problem and treat everyone fairly. When you report something, they actually get things done in an orderly fashion.

That being said, I do find there are times where threads are closed down at the first sign that two people might disagree on a small difference. A simple, "Let's keep this civil." should do it. I mean, from what I've noticed, the majority of the posters aren't unintelligent in the least and those who are generally are trolls. I recently had a couple of my replies to a thread deleted. Do I understand this reasons why they were deleted? Yes. Do I agree with the reasoning? Maybe, if the reasoning made any sense at all. It's like you guys went from A to B to...X. What the heck? How the hell did anyone come up with that conclusion? No offense, but working with chemistry, I've seen some assbackwards conclusions and this one definitely ranks up there.

If someone didn't create this thread, I'd never have said anything and just ignored the situation. I like the way these boards are run too much to leave over that. And I'm not going to fault you guys. We are all human and we all come up with random logic at certain times. I just don't see the logic that led to the conclusions that led to my replies getting deleted.

[Boozy]

That being said, I do find there are times where threads are closed down at the first sign that two people might disagree on a small difference. A simple, "Let's keep this civil." should do it.

You'd think. But I can't count the number of times I've seen a mod say, "Let's keep it civil" or "Let's take this topic to Fratching" and the warning has been completely ignored. This board is hardly zero tolerance. I've seen moderators give certain threads or members the benefit of the doubt when personally I would not be so generous.

I'd bet my last dollar that when a thread is closed and its not readily apparent as to why, there are deleted posts involved.

Closed threads always make me feel badly for the members whose posts were polite and on topic. Its not fair that a few hasty, thoughtless replies can ruin the thread for everyone else. But the fault does not lay with the moderators but with members who don't think about the effect their words may have before they post.

[Rapscallion]

In addition to Boozy's accurate assessment, there are also certain patterns we have seen time and again. Some things are always going to degenerate, no matter what happens - certain topics are like red rags to bulls. Political and religious bashing is channelled off to Fratching as soon as it starts, but often a deleted post doesn't result in a closed thread.

We'll generally announce if we've had to delete posts, mostly as a reminder for everyone in the thread, but that's not a hard and fast rule.

We prefer not to close threads - we're members of the board first and volunteer workers second. Who wants to come home from work and do more work? If everything's civil, the sandpit is open for all to play in.

Rapscallion

[PuckishOne]

Quoth B&NGoddess: i totally see the hypersensitivity he's referring to

Quoth Kerrisan: I have seen a couple of threads closed for no reason just because a mod "got a feeling" or "wanted to head it off" before it went bad . . . no warning or anything

Quoth KatieKaboom: Countless threads get closed at the first sign that there might be a little controversy.

Could someone point out any specific threads, so as to give some direction to the mod team as to what the complaint addresses? For myself, I find it nigh impossible to either explain or correct something I'm doing if I don't have a good example of it. It doesn't have to come from these individuals, either - anyone who can steer me in that direction would be great. Thanks.

[Ree]

Members also don't have the advantage of knowing when a post has been reported by a member.

What one person thinks is a pretty funny, casually irreverent comment, another person, perhaps someone who has had sadness and trials related to the experience being joked about, might not find quite so funny.

We don't always tell the members when a comment has been reported. We usually try to explain why the comment was in poor taste, and why it could be problematic, and we hope the member is sensible and mature enough to understand.

Most of the time, it works, but then we get that handful who cry foul and accuse us of overreaction and jumping the gun before we even see how it's going to turn out.

99% of the time, yeah, if we left it alone, nothing would come of it, but that 1% of when things get ugly and people get hurt, and members walk away without a word to us and never look back because they have been so hurt, well, that's what makes us err on the side of caution.

[Andara Bledin]

I can see where the appearance of hypersensitivity is felt. However, most of the time when I see a closed thread, my first thought tends to be, "I wonder what the deleted posts said," rather than, "wow, this thread is way to tame to deserve being closed."

I have only once run into a case where I thought a mod was being a little too sensitive on a matter, and I took it up with management in a PM, which is where the question belonged. And the only reason I brought it up at all was because the exact issue on the other side of the spectrum was being ignored by the same mod. That was several months back (about the same time this thread started, I think), and just from the last couple weeks of reading, I can tell that things have been equallized.

Otherwise, I love the moderation on this board. I belong to another forum (for which I have also been on hiatus for some time) that enjoys the same type of close moderation, and it is positively blissful to know that I won't have to worry about some asshat with a chip on his shoulder ruining a posting opportunity for everyone.

Regarding being On Topic. I admit that I am often guilty of continuing off topic discussion trends, but I do try to make an effort to keep such posts to a minimum. When I post something, I take the time to read it before I ever hit the "Post" button, and then I read it through again after it's been posted. I suspect that about half of everything I've ever typed for this forum has never seen the light of day because I realized that after taking the time to type it all out, it didn't really add anything to the discussion at hand or better belonged on Fratching.

As for the length of the Site Rules. Yeah, it's long. It has to be. Any decently moderated forum will have a long list of rules. But I can offer a suggestion (based on what my other fave forum does).

Instead of having all the rules as one long list in a post in the News forum, give the Rules their very own Section. Then, the first topic, stickied at the top and forever locked, would be the rules, numbered, with a title and a brief comment. Each of those entries will be a link to a different thread. Then, in order, also stickied in place, are the actual breakdowns and full reasons for each rule.

That way, it's only a very short read to actually know what the rules themselves are, and you have another place a person can look to get the full definition and applicability of each specific rule. It also makes for a handy way to link to specific rules for when there's an infraction, instead of just mentioning them by number.

In closing (cripes, I tend to write dissertaitions!): Thank you, Raps and the Mods for making CS a great place to visit, free of asshattery and bigotry.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

Well, we must be doing something right. The last three days have all have over seven hundred new posts in them.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

Hey, that means we'll be hitting over 300,000 posts in about 10 days.

^-.-^