Questionable Dental "Procedure"

[Kara]

Dentists fondling patients is nothing new, but this jackass actually tries to defend it as a legitimate part of treating his patients.

[ditchdj]

Heh. So what's the "comfort procedure" for female dentists that do work on male patients???

[Kara]

Good question. Maybe it's like a "Happy Ending" at a massage parlor that caters to men?

[Pedersen]

Okay, the guy is a dirtbag, but I gotta wonder about one of his "victims":

Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Phillips gave Lew three new complaints, including one from a 31-year-old woman who said Anderson fondled her at least six times over two years.

She took to wearing tight shirts with high necklines, "and Anderson would still get in under her shirt and bra," according to a police report.

She went back? Not just once, but at least 5 more times? And including enough times to engage in her own behavior modifications?

That's one that, if I were on a jury, I'd have a hard time finding for the "victim", at least after the first assault.

[sms001]

She went back? Not just once, but at least 5 more times? And including

Yeah, I wondered about that too - and 31 years old to boot! Sad.

I also liked that the dentist's attorney wants him to be allowed to continue his practice so he can feed his kids and "...pay for his defense." "Let him at 'em so I get paid!!!"

Kara & ditchdj - I imagine most women (heck, most men) are pretty far from titillated during most dental procedures. Spitting, mouth pried open, that high pitched drill, latex gloves..... hmmmmm.

OK, but the drill has got to go.

[crazylegs]

To be fair, at least its an original excuse.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I have a feeling the woman who got fondled 6 times in two years wasn't going there for the regular cleanings and checkups.

[myswtghst]

I'm with Pedersen--why on EARTH would you keep going back? If I got fondled by someone I was paying, I would file a complaint after it happened the first time. Going back and actually modifying your behavior does not look good-it makes it look like for some reason, whatever reason, you were ok with it. There are other dentists, and she should have found one, immediately. Even if you're too embarrassed to report him, at least go somewhere else next time!

[RecoveringKinkoid]

If I got fondled by someone I was paying, I wouldn't be the one needing the fucking dentist.

[Amethyst Hunter]

In the interest of playing devil's advocate (because the responses concerning the one victim really bother me), here's my take:

1) It IS possible that the victim in question may have been naive enough to mistake the pervert's advances as actual medical techniques. Here's why:

Many people, unless they've had experience in the medical/dental fields, are largely unclued-in as to what-all goes on during this procedure or that until they get in there and it's explained to them, assuming it ever is. This is through no fault of their own, there's just always been a shroud of mystique around medicine and let's face it, learning to memorize every single thing that goes on, including all the fancy details, is, unless you're studying that profession and have a yen for it, mind-numbingly boring. Most people don't like going to the dentist's, period, so the less they dwell on it the happier they are. For all they know, a "chest massage" may actually have something to do with the treatment they may be getting. I once worked in a dental office for about a year (office/clerical help, not an actual dental assistant or anything like that), and there are some oddball things you wouldn't think would be related to dentistry, but are. For instance, we're now learning that flossing has a direct correllation to heart disease, or the lack thereof (depending on your frequency of flossing). Two very different areas of the body, but they're linked by the evidence that bad bacteria in the mouth migrate elsewhere via the bloodstream and wind up doing damage to the heart muscle.

Let me relate a similar story from my youth. When I was about 14 years old, I was shockingly naive and ignorant about sex in general (As an example, my 7th grade year of high school - I did *not* know what a virgin was until some bitchy popular girls came up to me and started asking me if I was one - since I'd already started to receive some heavy bullying, I thought "virgin" was a bad thing, and as a result my negative answer caused me quite a bit of grief - thank God it didn't last very long, though, or my high school experience could REALLY have been hellish - as it was, it sucked ass). This is mostly due to having grown up in a very conservative and rural area for most of my life. I got a phone call one day and, since my parents were both at work it fell to me to take messages in case it was someone calling for my dad's business.

What happened after that is probably what gave me my lifelong hatred of phones in general. I didn't realize it at the time, but a genuine, 100% bona-fide scumbag pervert had managed to land our house number and was trolling for somebody to use to get his jollies. Unfortunately for me, I was the one who got caught by his trap. He kept me on the phone for at least a half hour as he pretended to be an actual doctor and went into graphic detail (which I'll spare you; suffice it to say that it comprised a good deal of what basically amounted to public masturbation in front of a so-called 'doctor') about a supposed procedure for teenaged girls that was soon to become law in my state and would be mandated by every high school (total bullshit, as I later learned) before female students would be permitted entrance into particular grades. (There are, in fact, particular immunizations that are required before students in certain grades will be allowed to enroll.)

Because at the time I didn't know any better, I was getting increasingly freaked out by all of this shit, and at one point I finally had to say that I was going to go get a parent to talk to this guy because I couldn't stand it anymore. I spent the next 15 or so minutes pacing my house in tears freaking out over what to do about this; this was before cell phones were so popular and I didn't have anyone else I could turn to for help. I finally ended up quietly going back to the desk and hanging up the phone without another word, hoping that this asshole wouldn't call back (he didn't).

That same evening, when my parents came home, they noticed I was pretty freaked out, and I told them what had happened. We subsequently filed a police report, but nothing ever came of it to my knowledge. Not terribly surprising, since I had no information that could help to ID this assweed (the name he gave was most likely fake, and I'd forgotten it if he'd even given it at all because I was so shocked by his details) and there was no caller ID at the time to trace any numbers.

If this jackass was sneaky enough about how he made his advances, and if the victim in question was naive enough (yes, folks, it IS very possible to still be naive about some things at thirty-plus years of age), it's possible she may not have really realized anything was wrong, and only later if she found the courage to bring up the understandably embarrassing subject to others, learned that what was being done to her was flat-out criminal.

2) The fact that she wore tight clothing has, as far as I'm concerned, *nothing* to do with what happened. Witness the recent airline case where a young, attractive female passenger was condescended to by an employee for supposedly wearing a "tight and revealing" outfit. I saw the outfit in question, and while it's something I personally would never wear being that I myself don't like to expose skin, I can't find any fault with it, because it IS what a young, attractive female would be likely to wear nowadays, and it was climate- and culture-appropriate. So singling this one woman out just because of the type of clothes she may favor is just a poor excuse to blame the victim for her own abuse, IMO. Wearing certain kinds of clothes in certain kinds of scenarios may not be the most intelligent thing to do, but it doesn't deserve abuse of any kind.

Yes, I realize that it doesn't look good to an average jury. Yes, I know that there are actually a few women out there who are trampy enough to wear trampy clothes and encourage harassment for the sole purpose of provoking a legal fight with some guy. This does *not* discount that 1) the MAJORITY of physical violence and harassment is directed at women in general *without* any 'provocation' at ALL, and 2) as far as I'm concerned, it's NO excuse to lay hands on anybody, regardless of how "slutty" they are or because they may appear to be "slutty" (and for that matter, why aren't guys who whore around or who look like it given the same unpleasant treatment?). Unless somebody's posing a direct physical threat to you or to somebody you're with/care about, it's not necessary to touch them at all.

If it was just this one female, I could understand a certain amount of skepticism, but she obviously isn't alone in her charges, so that leads me to think there's likely flame in the smoke there.

[myswtghst]

AH-I'm not saying that what the dentist did was right, or excusable, in any way. I just do not see how it would be possible for anyone old enough and capable of going to the dentist on their own could not realize that that would not be ok. And even if they thought it was some new technique, it's hard for me to believe that she wouldn't bring it up with someone else, even as a question. Also, I don't think the tight clothes comment was meant the way you're interpreting it--I think we're all noting that she obviously changed her behavior to try to prevent it from happening again--which suggests she knew what he was doing was wrong.

That said, I do believe it's possible. Not likely, 1 in a million type of chance, but still possible. However, in my experience with juries, they're not likely to go for that explanation.

And RK, your comment about made me fall out of my chair. And I did snort a little, I will admit.

[Pedersen]

In the interest of playing devil's advocate (because the responses concerning the one victim really bother me), here's my take:
---SNIP---
2) The fact that she wore tight clothing has, as far as I'm concerned, *nothing* to do with what happened. Witness the recent airline case where a young, attractive female passenger was condescended to by an employee for supposedly wearing a "tight and revealing" outfit. I saw the outfit in question, and while it's something I personally would never wear being that I myself don't like to expose skin, I can't find any fault with it, because it IS what a young, attractive female would be likely to wear nowadays, and it was climate- and culture-appropriate. So singling this one woman out just because of the type of clothes she may favor is just a poor excuse to blame the victim for her own abuse, IMO. Wearing certain kinds of clothes in certain kinds of scenarios may not be the most intelligent thing to do, but it doesn't deserve abuse of any kind.

Since I'm the one that started it, I do feel compelled to respond to this:
Tight clothing is no justification for what the dentist did. He's likely to be one of the perverts who needs some "re-education".

My particular comment was not about wearing tight clothes, but rather about changing her behavior. In her case, it was to wear tighter clothing.

Re-consider what she did: Over the course of two years, she visited at least 6 times (she reported 6 incidents, so could have visited more often and not been molested the other times). That works out to at least one visit every four months. Even if she got molested every time she visited, she had to have visited once at the beginning of those two years, and once at the end of those two years, with four other visits thrown in.

Over the course of these visits, she decided she didn't like what was happening, and changed her own behaviors to prevent it. When that still didn't work, the statements in the article made it sound like she still went back.

Honestly, if I were being molested in such a fashion, the behavior I would change wouldn't be to wear different clothing, but to switch to a different dentist who used other techniques. I like to think I'm relatively reasonable, and that most other reasonable people would do the same.

Hence my statement: I could find him guilty on the first count. Maybe even the second count. But counts 3 through 6? I'd have a hard time doing so. By then, a pattern had been established, one that she seemed to encourage by continuing her half of the pattern.

Yes, you can be very naive. But when your attempts to change a pattern of sexual molestation amount to changing into tight clothing (as opposed to going a legal route, or changing dentists, or otherwise attempting to redress the issue itself), it's tough to agree that subsequent counts weren't entirely consensual.