Pizza Boy fired for defending himself with a Gun

[Hon'ya-chan]

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=3777

I dunno. As much as I would like to give some baddie the worse beating (or multiple gunshot wounds) of his life, I don't think it's worth my life for a pizza and some cash.

[powerboy]

On one had, he should not have a weapon on him. But on the other, his life could have been taken, and why? Because he was doing his job.

[Sandman]

I would have turned around and right after they suspended me, hit them with a hostile work environement lawsuit. Tell them either reinstate me and fire the manager, or you will be dealt with the full force of the law, in which may cost you several million dollars.

[Dreamstalker]

Ditto. This sounds like the "don't be a hero" policy taken to the extreme. How the hell is one not expected to defend themselves if their life is in danger?

Geez, if they don't want any employees carrying weapons, then don't hire applicants with CCW permits...wait, is that legal? Even if he got the permit after he started working there (and personally, I wouldn't blame him), what business is it of the employers if they don't absolutely need to know?

Be interesting indeed to see how this one works out...

[KaeZoo]

While I sympathize with the employee, if Pizza Hut has a policy against its' employees going armed, and he was aware of it, then I don't think they have any choice but to fire him.

The problem is that there's a conflict here between two very valid interests. The employee has a strong interest in his own safety. But the company has a very valid concern about its own liability if an armed employee kills someone. To be fair, they may be sincere when they say that keeping employees disarmed is safer for everyone. I don't agree with that, but it's an arguable point.

I'm very much against people being disarmed by government regulations. But if someone employs you and requires that you don't carry weapons when you're working for them, then you need to either abide by the policy or find another place to work. When you choose to work for someone, you're agreeing to their policies. If you break the policy, then you can't really complain if they terminate your employment.

I don't really agree with Pizza Hut's policy, but I can certainly understand why it exists; and I understand why they can't just ignore it in a case like this one.

This took place in an apartment complex. What should Pizza Hut's response be, if a bullet from the employee's gun had gone through a wall, and killed a child sleeping on the other side?

I don't really mean to attack the employee for the actions he took to preserve his own life. I'm just pointing out that it's not really as black-and-white an issue as the original link makes it seem.

[tropicsgoddess]

I think it's complete bullshit that a man who is doing his job and trying to make an honest living delivering Pizzas for Pizza Hut be fired for defending himself from a bunch of thugs. On top of that, Pizza Hut's policy where employees are prohibited from carrying weapons makes no sense at all.

Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut, said, “We have a policy against carrying weapons. We prohibit employees from carrying guns because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

“Safest for everybody?” This inane policy certainly makes things safer for criminals, like the one who attacked Spiers. But it does nothing to aid the safety of Pizza Hut’s employees. Every night, hardworking deliverymen and women must do their job in potentially dangerous areas. In fact, their jobs are statistically among the most dangerous in the nation. Yet Pizza Hut would deprive them of self-protection.

[Racket_Man]

first of all honya chan please do not refer to delivery drivers as pizza boys. that just prepetuates the myth that most are young stoned out loosers with no education and no life ambition. at my store the average age of our drivers is around 30 with a family a house a car a lawn etc.

yeah that policy does not take into account that if a delivery driver dies on the job or is brutally raped or savagely beaten the company will disavow any responcilility financially speaking even if said driver is "following the security and safety policy to the letter" just a sorry for your loss sorry we can not/will not do anything to help out.

there was tell on another board of a corp memo sent down (not verified) from on high at Dominos (from the VP of security no less) "ordering" drivers to just drop their pants and bend over esp if they were female.

ohhhh legalized rape and how is this exempt from federal/state/local laws pray tell??????? just because it is company policy does not mean it is legal. sorry they were following company policy oh so that is OK right????? no policy broken no charges filed again the aggressor (unless by the grace of whomever they actually catch the actor) or the company and the family is left with a corpse and memories. ahhhh just the thing I want my family to have besides no money if thishappens to me.

yeah right some things are just not CYA's by company policy esp when it is MY LIFE AND/OR HEALTH they are screwing with. they provide me with NO SECURITY other than their "security and safety" policy

I guess this means that a company can put such outragious polocies in place and we have to blindly follow them without question (think of some of the utterly moronic policies we here at CS have to put up with and we BITCH about all of the time.

I literally put my life, health, car, well being, emotional health onthe line EVERY time I leave on a delivery and this is the thanks I get (besides getting stiffed more and more these days). I expect a resonable expectation of safety on the job IE OSHA and whatever state/local agency does this. getting voluntarily beaten/raped/killed is not my idea of safe at any level. if only the robbers would just take the money and run that would be the ideal, but reality is not so black and white. there are scum and drug addicts and thrill seekerswho kill and rob and rape for the hell of it never mind the money only would amount to maybe $40

Try driving on Fri and Sat nights or New Years eve and see how many drunks you have dodge and not get killed or mamed or losse your lively hood

Oh and now Doninos had the internet delivery tracker where you can see the name of the actual driver delvering your order. OHHHHHH maybe a hot female driver I can take advantage of like rape, senseless beating, torture, maming or kill or any of the above. some sicko's biggest wet dream ever I am waiting for this to happen if it already has not

sandman:
they were violating company policy and have no leg legally to stand on. do not agree with that but that is reality of the court system. this has happened to TOOOOOO many drivers after getting robbed or attempted to be robbed and the drive defended themselves. the story is getting out that pizza/sandwich/chinesse delivery drivers are easy targets and will not resist and you can get away with almost anything.

zaezoo

better to not have a job and be alive then have a job and be dead or in a coma or in hospital for 6 months and 20 surgeries and be disabled for the rest of your life. alive or dead or mamed makes good time for 2 days on the nightly news then fades quickly into the background as Britney or Hanna or someother shit for brains celebrity crowds out the real news. actually it is black and white my job like taxi drivers and cops is dangerous so I guess I have to take it up the ass or one for the team unlike cops sorry I do not have a Bat utility belt or a Bat-shield or a Bat surgical strike weapon or a Ga'ould personal shield to stop the bad guy

PH and the other Big 3 do not care about your life/health/safety, all they want is profit

[Rapscallion]

Oooh - look at the big, bold words!

Fratching terrain has been breached.

Rapscallion

[Racket_Man]

sorry I tend to get a littel passionate about this and how we are treated. If need be I will delete my post or you or the mod may do so

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

This took place in an apartment complex. What should Pizza Hut's response be, if a bullet from the employee's gun had gone through a wall, and killed a child sleeping on the other side?

Their options would pretty much be as follows:
1. Settle with the deceased child's family out of court, or
2. Take their chances in court and hope the jury isn't feeling too sympathetic to the family of the deceased child.

Passionate arguments can be made on both sides of this one. Pizza delivery drivers have a difficult, dangerous job and can be sitting ducks for robbers because they can't really protect themselves. But on the other hand, the current state of our legal system and judgments people have won due to accidental deaths make these kinds of policies inevitable, or at least very attractive, to the corporate types.

[wolfie]

Passionate arguments can be made on both sides of this one. Pizza delivery drivers have a difficult, dangerous job and can be sitting ducks for robbers because they can't really protect themselves. But on the other hand, the current state of our legal system and judgments people have won due to accidental deaths make these kinds of policies inevitable, or at least very attractive, to the corporate types.

Part of the problem is that, on the corporate side, there's a big liability risk if they allow employees to defend themselves, but none if they require employees to be sitting ducks. What's needed is a counterbalance - taking the stand that if a corporation forbids its employees to defend themselves, it is taking on the duty to defend them, with any failure in carrying out this duty leaving them open to serious financial consequences.

In other words, if an employee has a CWP (those things don't get handed out in Corn Flakes boxes), either allow him to carry his weapon for self-defence, or provide him with an armed guard.

[Evil Queen]

I don't have anything to add except that I rather like the way it was written. You can see the reporter's passion for his job in it.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, first off, both the title of this thread and the title of the article are inaccurate.

The delivery driver was not punished for defending himself. He was punished for breaking corporate policy. Just because both activities end up being the same event, they are not the same cause and it's a disservice to everyone to fight this from the wrong angle. It's a lie of semantics.

Unfortunately, what this article also does is highlight the fact that Pizza Hut drivers are sitting ducks and open up a whole new can of worms. This article, more than the policy in question, raises the danger to their delivery drivers.

I agree that the policy isn't necessarily the best. However, it is up to the employee to follow company policy or find new employment. The policy itself does not place the employees in danger.

Also, there is just as much chance that the driver's fight with the assailant could have resulted in the driver being shot and killed even more easily than what actually happened. It's fairly obvious that the assailants had no interest in killing or wounding the guy; they just wanted his money.

What kind of spin would have been put on this story had the assailants been interested in his death and he was killed for fighting?

Oh, and as for my comment about them just wanting the money and not wanting to hurt the guy? If they'd wanted to hurt him, they just would have shot him right off and stolen the money after he was no longer a possible threat. That's what they did over here, which is why they won't deliver to this address even though we now have armed security on the premises 24/7.

^-.-^

[JLRodgers]

There's the one problem with people robbing stores and such. Based on things I've seen and heard -- sometimes people are robbing you because they want the money -- sometimes they're robbing you just to watch you shiver in fear before they kill you (the money gives them more pleasure as they think there's a shread of hope).

Some restuarants around me have apparently changed their policies from "give them the money and obey" to "give them the money and do whatever you feel you should do". Mainly since a number of store robberies have resulted in deaths, and the deaths occured after the robbers had the money and could've had a clean getaway and no one was resisting.

[Hon'ya-chan]

first of all honya chan please do not refer to delivery drivers as pizza boys. that just prepetuates the myth that most are young stoned out loosers with no education and no life ambition.