Doctor Who - Bells of Saint John (SPOILERS)

[KhirasHY]

I finally remembered to go look at something in Crimson Horror, hoping for hints, and I found an easter egg instead In the scene where Vastra tells Strax how Jenny will find the Doctor (right after Jenny signs the ledger in the church), there are a bunch of posters on the wall. One of them reads:

"The circus is in town.
Come see freaks
Ghouls and ghosts perform
Talking dogs (K9), Performing Rats
and
DASTARDLY DONNA! (obvious)

The same poster also mentions "Lights in the Sky" and shooting stars (the stars are going out), but at the bottom it does have a reference: "To end the extravaganza at 9pm, Friday 5th April, Behind the Rose and Crown Pub" which was the pub that he first met Victorian Clara at. It says something in very small text below that, but even with Magnifier set to 900%, it's too small and pixilated to read. If anyone wondered, 5 April probably refers to the premier date of Series 4 in 2008, hence why Donna's mentioned.

I'd meant to go back for days now and look, but I kept forgetting to do it. Kinda amusing to stumble on that though...

But another Rose and Crown Pub reference. I really wish I could read what was written below that...

Also, I'm excited for the next episode...one, it's a Neil Gaiman episode (and I've loved his Who ventures), and two, the word is that they contacted him in hopes that he would "make the Cybermen scary again", so hopefully they don't seem too worthless this time around I got a spoiler regarding the final episode before we go back on hiatus, so going to white text that: Richard E Grant returns as Dr. Simeon in The Name of the Doctor, which ties the Great Intelligence back into this whole thing. So yeah, there's that. End spoilertext.

Finally, starting May 11th, there will be a prequel that is showing on BBC Red Button each evening until the final episode airs that will flesh out a bit more background to the story. Hopefully someone can rip it onto the web for us to see across the ocean

[Aethian]

When the cyber men were introduced in book form I never thought they were scary. Especially when they explained how they had become what they were. Even later on in the series with 10 I pitied them.

[Kheldarson]

I'm simply looking forward to it for Gaiman. I don't even care who the villain is...Neil Gaiman is writing it and OMG FANGASM!!!

*pants*

I'm okay now...

[Jay 2K Winger]

Saw "Nightmare in Silver" last night... Thoughts follow...

Well. They certainly made the Cybermen fucking scary again. Between the Cybermites, the removal of all their traditional weaknesses... not to mention that creepy new voice ("--UpGrAde In PrOgReSs--") It's no wonder the Human Empire's SOP for a Cyber threat is to just scuttle the planet.

Warwick Davis was awesome, not that this should have surprised anyone.

The preview for the finale next week is already got me giddy with excitement. The Pasternoster Row Gang... villainous monsters like a cross between "Buffy the Vampire Slayer's" Gentlemen and a shark... Dr. Simeon... oh hell yes.

One final thought: The only way Matt Smith could have been any hammier was if the scenery was actually edible.

I guess you could say his penchant for wild, maniacal speeches went...



...up to Eleven.

[DaDairyDruid]

if you can, try and find the "he said, She said" promo for next weeks episode on youtube

[Moirae]

This last one was much much better than the last how many it was, and Clara has stopped acting like a scared idiot and started acting like she did in the first two episodes, though the change was rather abrupt.

[KhirasHY]

Beware: BBC accidentally shipped the Blu-Ray for this whole season early, which means a lot of people have already seen the episode. If you got one, please don't spoil it here, some of us want to find everything out as it airs...

[Kheldarson]

So the Cybermen episode, I liked what I could tell was definitely Gaiman, but the presentation felt off entirely.

The season finale...god. I was bored. It just felt like an overall waste. It really needed more build up for the payoff it wanted, but we couldn't quite get that. And part of it is just how Moffat wants to focus things.

This article gives a good argument about it.

[KhirasHY]

OK...so, full spoilers for the last episode. Spoilertext, as always:

Nice cop out by Moffat, having someone that no one can hear say the Doctor's name so that it isn't ruined for the audience. Better than having it be a stupid name though haha.

I wrote very early on that I expected the Valeyard to be the main villain, I have to think that John Hurt is being cast as that version of The Doctor as a result. That means we'll be dealing with him on 11/23 for the special, most likely as the foe of that conflict. The Great Intelligence referring his nicknames (The Endless Storm, and the Valeyard himself) more or less set that up as well. My theory here is that, while entering his own time stream like that, he will have caused a break in reality due to the paradox, which will bring Hurt's version back into the universe. The Doctor and Valeyard competed against one another in the past, with the latter even trying to destroy the former, so it's certainly possible. With their habit of bringing back past villains as the Big Bad, I've been expecting his return for a while.

There is already an alternative theory in my head though, that Hurt's Doctor could be one somewhere on the timeline that we never knew about, and that he pretends was never out there. The easiest place for this to happen would be between the 8th and 9th Doctors, since the moments between them have never really been shown. He could be a version of the Doctor that existed during the Time War, and did terrible things as a result, resulting in the almost shell shocked Christopher Eccleston version. We'll find out in November, I suppose, but in typing this, I'm starting to think it could very well be likely. #11 knew about Hurt's Doctor as his secret, but he had also met the Valeyard previously, so it could go either way.

Guess we've answered the Clara question, as well as Trenzalor, and River Song's continued involvement. What I wonder is how long she's actually been just an afterimage from the Library, and how many of the previous episodes she's considered to be there in person. Interesting way to end her saga (if it is, indeed, ended). I was a bit annoyed with the ending there though, since the resolution to what the GI was doing was clear the instant he said anything. It was obvious that Clara would jump in after him, but I guess there wasn't really a way for them to keep her decision secret from the viewers by that point.

BTW, nice immediate Rose reference by Vastra with "the stars are going out."

[Moirae]

Now this is the way these episodes should have been this whole season. I was on the edge of my seat and it sucked when it was over complete with the announcement "November 23rd".

[cinema guy]

It was an interesting and unusual episode. There was never really any feeling of threat from the Great Intelligence. And never really any kind of cleverness from the Doctor. Everyone just seemed to go along with the whole thing. It wasn't until the GI went through that there was any threat.

Also the Doctor going into his own time stream and saving Clara was kind of a cop out.

[Kheldarson]

It was an interesting and unusual episode. There was never really any feeling of threat from the Great Intelligence. And never really any kind of cleverness from the Doctor. Everyone just seemed to go along with the whole thing. It wasn't until the GI went through that there was any threat.

Also the Doctor going into his own time stream and saving Clara was kind of a cop out.

Everybody was just kind of there, weren't they? Even the introduction of the big bad other Doctor was kinda just given there.

Moffat, you can't give a minute speech about how somebody is basically evil and have us accept that.

And, yes, without any apparent consequences, Clara's being saved feels like a cop out.

[KhirasHY]

I don't think he thinks that Hurt's Doctor is evil.

I think he's ashamed of him though...it's the part of him that he hates the most.

[Jester]

I seem to be in the minority, but I really liked the season finale. Did it have flaws? Sure. But how many "Blink" level episodes do you really think you're gonna get? I am most pissed that we have to wait SIX FREAKIN' MONTHS for the next episode, though.

Warwick Davis was awesome, not that this should have surprised anyone.

Shouldn't surprise anyone. Davis rocks. And I can say this in more levels than most, as I've had the pleasure of meeting him, and doing magic tricks for him and his family, as they stopped into The Bar to dine one night several years ago.

Yep....I did magic for Willow. And yes, it was REALLY freakin' cool!

[Kheldarson]

I seem to be in the minority, but I really liked the season finale. Did it have flaws? Sure. But how many "Blink" level episodes do you really think you're gonna get? I am most pissed that we have to wait SIX FREAKIN' MONTHS for the next episode, though.

I'm not looking for "Blink" level. I'm looking for an episode that doesn't throw so much at us that nothing can really get resolved properly because you only have 10 minutes left of the show. Or, given that we're getting the conclusion in six months, why not use this as a complete creepy-pasta episode and build up your new Doctor and build up Clara's resolution.

As it was, it was just...there. It felt like a rush job to tie up stuff so we'll be "OMG 50th ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL", and that's not cool.

Shouldn't surprise anyone. Davis rocks. And I can say this in more levels than most, as I've had the pleasure of meeting him, and doing magic tricks for him and his family, as they stopped into The Bar to dine one night several years ago.

Yep....I did magic for Willow. And yes, it was REALLY freakin' cool!

And that IS cool! You have some of the neatest experiences, Jester.