Star Wars The Force Awakens **SPOILERS**

[CorneliaMarieRocks]

Ok, those who have seen the new SW movie, what did you think about it? Likes? Dislikes?

Just a warning for those who have NOT seen it & do not wish to be spoiled, "this isn't the thread you're looking for. Move along"


I will withhold my comments for now until a little later


cuss..discuss..whatever

[Talon]

From the first few lines of dialogue between Finn and Poe, I had a *good* feeling about this.

I wasn't disappointed.

Second time brother and I saw it, the theater screen quality wasn't great. We didn't care, still loved it. For a series that Lucas unfortunately took into Special Effects Uber-Alles territory, that should speak volumes.

[CorneliaMarieRocks]

so are you a Pro Prequel person Talon or Anti? Just curious mind you, don't want this thread going to into 'Greedo shot first!' 'No Han did!' type paths if ya catch my drift

[Jay 2K Winger]

I liked TFA. It was miles better than the prequels. (Not that this was hard.)

I've seen criticisms that it hit a lot of the same story beats as A New Hope, which is fair, but I also look at it as the cycle of the war against the Dark Side-- a case of history repeating itself, in a way.

Team Light Side's characters shared a lot of similar traits as their Original Trilogy counterparts, without being straight-up carbon copies, and even Team Dark Side had a lot of similar traits to the baddies from the Original Trilogy.

The movie gave us just enough to start the 'passing of the torch' without giving us everything, so that there's still ground to cover in Episodes VIII and IX.

Any complaints I might've had about Kylo Ren's lightsaber crossguard were silenced when he made use of it during the climactic duel sequence.

I also have to say I love BB-8's design. It makes him so much more expressive than C-3PO (who, while humanoid, has no moving facial features and limited range of mobility) and R2-D2 (who is a freakin' CAN on treads). It made it possible for them to have BB-8 express some emotions without having to resort to various beeping noises like R2.

I'm looking forward to seeing some of Team Dark Side get some more development in the movies to come. Captain Phasma deserved more screen time than she got, and I just know General Hux is going to get a major comeuppance that should be awesome. Obviously, Kylo Ren is going to get some development as well, and I wonder if we'll get more flashback information about him to show more of how he was seduced to the dark side.

And, of course, Supreme Leader Snoke had a nice undercurrent of menace in every scene we saw him conversing with Kylo Ren.

The most major complaint I have about the movie is the reveal of who Kylo Ren is. When Snoke dropped the line, it was just dropped, it didn't feel like a major bombshell like Vader's "I am your father." I just feel like it could have had a much bigger impact if the reveal hadn't come until Han Solo confronted Kylo Ren on the bridge. If Snoke's line hadn't referred to Han Solo being Kylo Ren's father, just "The droid is on board the Millennium Falcon, with Han Solo..." and Kylo Ren had simply replied, "He means nothing to me," it would have hinted at it without outright telling us. When Kylo Ren is 'praying' to Vader's helmet, drop the 'Grandfather' line from the scene. Likewise, during the scene with Han and Leia talking about him, if they'd changed up the dialog in a way that hid their relationship to Kylo Ren, while still talking about "the loss of their son," in some way, it would have further set up a possible twist like "Kylo Ren killed their son when he massacred Luke's New Jedi," but then it wouldn't have been until the scene at the bridge that the truth was dropped. Keep Han calling out "Ben!" and then later have Han drop the line "Because you're my SON!" to have the proper amount of impact.

[CorneliaMarieRocks]

I agree with ya there Jay, maybe they could've worked the dialogue like when Obi-Wan told Luke that Vader seduced & murdered his father, which at that time made it sound as if Vader & Anakin weren't one in the same

And as far as Ren 'praying' to Vader's helmet bull, apparently good 'ol J.J Abrams MISSED the end of ROTJ & the fact that when he died, he was Vader no longer, but Anakin..So, they could've dropped that scene entirely IMHO & people wouldn't have missed anything.

And then, in a moment, something changed. Perhaps he remembered something heard in his youth a long time ago: an ancient prophecy of the Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. Perhaps the vague outlines of someone named Shmi and a Jedi named Qui-Gon struggled to the surface of his consciousness. The most powerful, the most repressed thought of all could have emerged from the darkness: Padmé… and her undying love for someone he once knew well. And despite all the terrible, unspeakable things he’d done in his life, he suddenly realized he could not stand by and allow the Emperor to kill their son. And in that moment, he was no longer Darth Vader.

^^ that passage comes from the Kindle version of the Original Trilogy Junior Collection Disney came out with.

This is getting a little but I think is still relevant, there are some folks that thought that is was actually Luke that was the Chosen One that was meant to bring the balance, but I don't buy that. the Jedi Council members just ASSUMED that the so called prophecy referred to it being a Jedi (which I guess was true seeing's as ultimately at the end of his life he WAS a Jedi)

[Racket_Man]

I liked the movie BUT I was not very impressed.

All of the previous movies tropes and references were a little TOO much

The story just seemed if A New Hope (complete) with a little of RoTJ was tossed into a blender a few new names and characters tossed in as an aside, and add 30 years on blend and PRESTO SW:TFA.

There were several scenes I KNEW/predicted were coming. Same sequence as SW:ANH all in all a little too predictable storyline.

I will add I did think the prequels were decent (NOT great) except for Jar-Jar.

[Sliceanddice]

So when it was announced I said 'eh... maybe I'll see it.' Then I saw the trailer.

Han walks on and 'Nope fuck this noise. He should have died 5 movies ago and is the second stupidest character in the franchise.'

I ask meimei and mama slicey if I will be dragged to it for a Christmas movie showing. Meimei says ' eh I'm being dragged to a midnight premier with friends and I don't think I'll want to see it again.' Mama Slicey ' I'm not that interested so no'. Me 'Yes! I get out of seeing it'.

Queue meimei seeing it giving it an ok and telling the boy she saw it. The boy responded with 'I thought we would see it as a family but I guess that's too good for you're.' Memoir responds ' I can see it again but mom will only see it if it's in IMAX.' She looks it up, it is, and she tells me ' the boy wants to see star wars on Christmas eve' I respond 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I thought I'd get away with seeing that movie and it's still a stupid franchise' She tells me to suck it up so I do.

D-Day we go see it in a packed theatre at the last showing of the night. Afterwards meimei asks me what I thought. I say best one i ever saw but that's not saying much. Yay Han died. Still not a star wars fan.'

And that's that.

[prjkt]

I enjoyed it
Went in with no expectations.

Have more to say, but too much of a pain to type on my phone. Will come back to it.

[mjr]

I have to say I was happy with it. The company I work for bought out a few theaters in the area, so we got to see it that way.

Anyhow, Here are a few of my thoughts:

1. "The Resistance" vs "The First Order". This definitely hearkens back to the original trilogy with the Rebel Alliance vs the Empire.

2. Rey is a total badass.

3. One issue I had was it seemed that Rey started learning to use the Force a little too quickly. Even after she thought it was made up, and after Han told her "It's true, all of it". She learned to channel the Force rather quickly, though not at the level of a Jedi, without Jedi assistance. Remember that she used the Jedi Mind Trick on the stormtrooper. In the original trilogy, Luke had Obi-Wan and Yoda's help in his training to be a Jedi/use the Force. Obi-Wan had at least told Luke about the Force, and had started training him with that ball thing on the Millennium Falcon. Vader had Darth Sidious as a master.

4. Kylo Ren. If they were going for a Vader "clone" here, they missed the boat in my opinion. Unless it's something they're building up to. He's more of a "loose cannon", and seemingly more temperamental than Vader was. Vader was much more cold, calculating, and manipulative. Kylo Ren also didn't seem to be quite as strong in the Dark Side than Vader. Of course, we all know the history of Vader, with the "off scale" midichlorians. Ren just seemed like a weaker figure than Vader. Especially with his "tantrums" where he'd destroy stuff with his light saber.

5. "Praying" to Vader's helmet. Remember what Kylo Ren said here. "I'll finish what you started."
Remember: Luke had fled. He's basically the last of the Jedi. The Force had become nothing more than a "myth". So I think in that context he was "praying" to the Sith Lord rather than to Anakin. It's what the Vader helmet represents, to me, not what Vader became just before he died. And remember, to the Knights of Ren, Vader basically became a "godlike" figure, IIRC.

6. I suspect, at some point, there will be a "Vader" type transformation of Kylo Ren. Cybernetics, and all that stuff.

7. I like how they ended the movie. No words, just Rey extending the light saber to Luke. And it's almost like Luke expected her to be there.

8. Kylo Ren's light saber. I don't know that he got that far in the training before he turned on Luke (which is basically what happened). So he had to build his own, with old, antiquated technology. And he apparently wasn't that good at it. That explains why the "blade" looks different. The hilt is actually more of an "energy exhaust", at least that's the story.

9. I don't know what the main plot of VIII will be, but I have a feeling a big part of the story will be Rey's training in the Force, or at least partially Rey having to convince Luke to train her.

10. Hints that Leia was still "in tune" with The Force. She "felt" when Han died.

11. Starkiller base. The First Order got this sort of technology, but still didn't protect it as well as they could have?

12. BB-8. Roly-poly droid played a key part in the story.

13. The unanswered questions about how/why R2 powered down, and then all of a sudden powered up. Also, how did C3PO get that red arm? Not everyone reads the comic books and follows other "Star Wars" media for canon.

[mjr]

The most major complaint I have about the movie is the reveal of who Kylo Ren is.

Spoiler: In one of the Video games, Kylo Ren tells Rey, "Face Me, cousin!", or something that sounds like it.

See it here (the phrase is at 20:32): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXRZd5vkdo

Which, if true, would mean that Rey is the daughter of Luke.

[CorneliaMarieRocks]

mjr, see that was what was confusing about who Rey's parents were, at first I thought she was Luke's, like you said, but then towards the end right before Rey took off in the Falcon she & Leia were hugging, the way they were acting made it seem like she was Han & Leia's daughter, ergo Kylo's twin, which would make sense seeing as twins run the Skywalker line.

#3- I'll agree that it seemed like it came a little too easy, but then again, remember Anakin had been using the Force for a long time before Qui-Gon came along without realizing it..So, maybe they were going for that effect & it just kind of flopped.


#6- well if they go that route, then they're going to have to build up to a lightsaber duel on a fiery planet that will live up to the epicness that was Anakin & Obi-Wan's duel on Mustafar..But then again maybe not, because if you remember, in ROTC Sidious claimed that he had a new apprentice who was meant to replace Dooku, one who was younger & far stronger. Then Mustafar happened & all that went out the window, so if they try to replicate the cybernetics then all we're going to wind up with is Vader 2.0

#7- Yeah, Luke's on screen for all of 2 mins & you know how much Hamill was paid for that? $500,000 a minute...$1 million dollars for 2 mins...Hamill claimed that him & Fisher went through stunt training & all that goes with that, for what???? Standing around looking wise?

#8- that's something that totally mind boggled me, how on earth did whoever get ahold of that particular 'saber?? That 'saber was lost on Bespin years ago

#13- as far as I know, the New Jedi Order canon books & all that that folks wrote after ROTJ are no more...unless you're talking about books that flesh out backstory before Force Awakens that is

[mjr]

#3- I'll agree that it seemed like it came a little too easy, but then again, remember Anakin had been using the Force for a long time before Qui-Gon came along without realizing it..So, maybe they were going for that effect & it just kind of flopped.

True, but Anakin wasn't actively trying to use the force at first. When Rey found out, she started actively trying to use it.

#6- well if they go that route, then they're going to have to build up to a lightsaber duel on a fiery planet that will live up to the epicness that was Anakin & Obi-Wan's duel on Mustafar.

Well, remember when Rey and Ren fought on the Starkiller. Rey did injure Ren, and it's possible that he may have sustained other injuries during the evacuation. I don't know where they're going there, though.

#8- that's something that totally mind boggled me, how on earth did whoever get ahold of that particular 'saber?? That 'saber was lost on Bespin years ago

The alien lady (the Yoda analog) got ahold of it somehow.

#13- as far as I know, the New Jedi Order canon books & all that that folks wrote after ROTJ are no more...unless you're talking about books that flesh out backstory before Force Awakens that is

Yeah, I'm talking about all of the Battle of Jakku stuff and things that are considered "canon" that happened between ROTJ and TFA.

[Jay 2K Winger]

4. Kylo Ren. If they were going for a Vader "clone" here, they missed the boat in my opinion. Unless it's something they're building up to. He's more of a "loose cannon", and seemingly more temperamental than Vader was. Vader was much more cold, calculating, and manipulative. Kylo Ren also didn't seem to be quite as strong in the Dark Side than Vader. Of course, we all know the history of Vader, with the "off scale" midichlorians. Ren just seemed like a weaker figure than Vader. Especially with his "tantrums" where he'd destroy stuff with his light saber.

This is kind of the whole point of Kylo Ren's character in TFA. He's a Vader Wannabe. He doesn't have the same strength in the dark side that Vader did, or the same physical stature, so he plays it up to try to intimidate people. Vader didn't fly off the handle because he had a stronger grip on his emotions, though he'd also had something like 25 more years to learn to control them.

Kylo Ren wants to be Darth Vader. But at present, he's more like whiny teenager Anakin Skywalker.

7. I like how they ended the movie. No words, just Rey extending the light saber to Luke. And it's almost like Luke expected her to be there.

I dunno if Luke really expected her, per se. There were a lot of emotions going across his face when he turned to face her at the end there. There was some surprise there, but then I saw sadness and regret. If she's related to him (daughter or niece), it could be "I had hoped you would be free from this endless cycle," or it could be his seeing the lightsaber and knowing that Maz wanted it to come back to him, and knowing that he could not stay away from the fight.

8. Kylo Ren's light saber. I don't know that he got that far in the training before he turned on Luke (which is basically what happened). So he had to build his own, with old, antiquated technology. And he apparently wasn't that good at it. That explains why the "blade" looks different. The hilt is actually more of an "energy exhaust", at least that's the story.

It's been explicitly referred to as an "unstable" lightsaber. Yes, the crossguard is exhaust, but it can be weaponized, as we saw him do to Finn. It's also therefore a reflection of Kylo Ren himself-- it is unstable.

10. Hints that Leia was still "in tune" with The Force. She "felt" when Han died.

I would have preferred they introduce Leia to the plot earlier than they did. She's sensitive enough to the Force to feel when Han died, and it was enough to make her slump or sit down. She should have felt when the Hosnian System was obliterated by Starkiller Base and it should have put her on the floor.

11. Starkiller base. The First Order got this sort of technology, but still didn't protect it as well as they could have?

I thought it was protected pretty well. The shield around the planet was designed to prevent anything traveling at less than lightspeed from getting through-- Han Solo got around that by being crazy enough to enter the atmosphere at lightspeed. Disabling the shield took them capturing Phasma and forcing her to shut it down. Even then, the thermal oscillator weak point was hardened to protect it from aerial bombardment, and it took Han and Chewie planting those bombs to blow a hole in it-- and even then, it took a crazy-skilled pilot like Poe Dameron to get into that hole to blow the oscillator from inside.

[mjr]

I dunno if Luke really expected her, per se. There were a lot of emotions going across his face when he turned to face her at the end there. There was some surprise there, but then I saw sadness and regret. If she's related to him (daughter or niece), it could be "I had hoped you would be free from this endless cycle," or it could be his seeing the lightsaber and knowing that Maz wanted it to come back to him, and knowing that he could not stay away from the fight.

Interesting perspective, Jay. I hadn't considered this. Very interesting perspective there.

She's sensitive enough to the Force to feel when Han died, and it was enough to make her slump or sit down. She should have felt when the Hosnian System was obliterated by Starkiller Base and it should have put her on the floor.

Well, Alderaan being destroyed didn't really affect Obi-Wan in that way. He sensed the disturbance in the Force, but it didn't floor him. Though if you're talking about an entire star system, then yeah, I think I'd agree that it should have affected Leia more than it did.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Well, Alderaan being destroyed didn't really affect Obi-Wan in that way. He sensed the disturbance in the Force, but it didn't floor him. Though if you're talking about an entire star system, then yeah, I think I'd agree that it should have affected Leia more than it did.

Alderaan blowing up may not have floored Obi-Wan, but he had to sit down when he felt that "grave disturbance in the Force."

Imagine how that must have affected Luke. Even if Leia's not as strong as he is in the Force, if she's strong enough to feel the death of one man from systems away, then she should have definitely felt it when the Hosnian System was destroyed.