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A Negative Nancy has exited my life

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  • A Negative Nancy has exited my life

    Back in January, I met another American woman who had some good tips on where to look for steady work. She gave me her email address and phone number, and when I emailed her later, she told me about a company that might be looking for people.

    As it turned out, she was right. I've been doing work for them since February.

    I sent her a friend request on Facebook, which she accepted.

    This woman... well. She's very generous. When I told her I was going to have surgery, she volunteered to get groceries for me, come and visit me, etc. I was very appreciative of these offers. She called me when I was in the hospital to make sure I was all right. We had tentative plans for her to visit me, but on the appointed day, I was too tired to answer the phone. This was fortunate, since a truly nasty storm hit that day, and she would have been caught out in it.

    She's called me a few times since then. She asked me how I was, then told me about her health problems and how awful it was trying to find the right treatment - first in the States, then here. Then she talked about how people were so awful to her in the medical profession. She talked about how bad her life is in general (not in so many words, but that was the gist of it).

    She called me today. We talked about the usual stuff, and then her conversation just got more and more negative. Everyone was awful to her. Nobody would help. And on and on.

    Finally, I said that the conversation was just too negative, and suggested that we talk about something else. I pointed out that if I wanted negativity, I could just go online. I asked why we couldn't talk about something really uplifting.

    Oh, but she was just telling the truth. It wasn't negativity. It was the truth.

    I asked, again, why we couldn't stop the negativity and talk about something else.

    Oh, but she was talking about something else. I was the one being negative.

    I pointed out that she'd been talking about all kinds of pain, etc.

    She said that I'd been talking about my pain (surgery), and she hadn't complained about that.

    I told her that I needed to break this pattern. I told her that, for much of my life, I've dealt with people who tried to turn things around to blame me, for whatever reason. I didn't say this to her because I didn't think of it at the time, but it's an old and favorite trick of manipulators - they criticize you so that you feel you have to defend yourself.

    I told her that I felt this was life's way of telling me that this had to stop. I pointed out that she was trying to turn things around on me, she was gaslighting me, and I had to end it.

    She, in a wounded voice, complained that I was yelling at her. Yep, another attempt to get me to defend myself. (If I'd been yelling, she would have known it. She wouldn't have needed a phone to hear me.)

    Then came another manipulation attempt. "I just called to see how you were. I volunteered to go to the store for you, come and visit you..." You get the idea.

    "And now, you're trying to make me feel guilty," I told her.

    She then told me that she wasn't going to take any of my "abuse". I managed to say that it was the truth before she hung up.

    So there she goes. I had been feeling rather guilty about not contacting her, since her offers of help had been so generous, but now, I think it was an attempt to inveigle her way into my life. The tone of her voice is always a low, complaining one, that does grate on the nerves. But as I said, I was feeling guilty about her generosity.

    Which comes at a very high price.

  • #2
    I've met people like that. Oh, so nice and helpful at first, doing all the favors for you... then expect you to feel obligated to put up with their BS because they helped you. Nope. I'll return favors in kind if possible. I'll hang with you and chat and stuff, until you start in with the complaint-fest. Try to guilt-trip me for not putting up with all the bitching and moaning, implying that I 'owe' it to you because of favors done? Nope. Bye-bye.

    I don't mind people venting from time to time. We all experience things that leave us frustrated, angry, sad, upset. And I'll move as much of the heaven and earth as I can shift to help a friend having problems.

    But to make the whinging and complaining a constant thing? Nope. To quote a popular meme, ain't nobody got time for that.
    You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

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    • #3
      Yeah, that's how it was. Funny that she was trying to make me feel guilty for things she offered to do, but never did.

      I've had some breakthroughs of thought this year, and I really like how these breakthroughs have changed my life for the better. For example, I needed to buy a new printer/scanner/copier recently, and I went to see a used one that was for sale. The woman met me at her place and showed me the machine.

      It wasn't what I was looking for. In the past, I might have bought it anyway, feeling obligated to do so. Or I might have apologized profusely for not buying it.

      Instead, I told her that it wasn't what I was looking for, thanked her for her time, and left. And she was fine with it.

      Negative Nancy was very intent on coming to see me, which makes me think she wanted to sit down and unload a ton of negativity on me. Captive audience, you know. And this time, I circumvented it.

      I do like the new me.

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      • #4
        You are awesome!

        I think that pretty much sums it up. I hope that the next time I get an emotional vampire latched on to me, I can be as strong as you!

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        • #5
          Thanks! It's not the sort of thing that has come easily to me, or quickly. It's only in the past few years that I fully realized some of the tricks those manipulators play.

          Attack. They say something critical of you so that you defend yourself. But you don't have to defend yourself. It's an unjustified attack, and you are under no obligation to say anything in response.

          Playing the victim. They talk about how hard their lives are, with the unspoken idea that you should solve everything for them. Yet when you make suggestions, they shoot each one down, every time. I think these people really like having shitty lives.

          Latching on. They grab on to you and don't let go. They ask you where you're going/what you're doing, then just take it for granted that they're involved. If you try to avoid it, they want to know why. Don't make up an excuse, because they'll just shoot down your excuses in the same way they shoot down your suggestions for improving their lives. You have to say, in one way or another, that it's not going to happen. And don't tell them why.

          It took me a long, long time to reach this point. I'm so glad I did!

          Comment


          • #6
            The whole firm no without discussion thing is HARD. I found a mental trick that makes it a little easier, for me, YMMV. I deliberately mentally view the person trying to argue with me as about 4 years old. And then treat them like the recalcitrant toddler they're acting like. "Because I said no!" "No. Just no. No argument. No discussion. No." "I said no! Now go to your room!" ...Er... ok, maybe not that last one. Though it might make a funny tension breaker if the other people in the vicinity have good senses of humor.

            I don't use this trick dealing with normal, reasonably rational people on a day to day basis. Only when someone refuses to accept a "No" that they don't get any choice about and start in with the "But whyyyyyyyyyyy?" bit that we're all far too familiar with.

            There's also a comment made by by one of my favorite authors that addresses the first trick, the attack. The comment is "I usually decline to take offense even when offered some. If I get offended, I'm expected to do something about it. But I'm lazy."
            Last edited by Kittish; 08-31-2017, 08:32 PM.
            You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah, manipulators know that if they just keep asking the same question over and over and over and over again, most people will eventually cave and either do what they want, or give them an explanation they can argue with. We at CS have seen it far too often at work, as well as in our private lives.

              I say, fuck it. I don't owe anyone an explanation for my decisions, especially when the person demands an explanation, as if I've done something wrong. I no longer JADE (this acronym stands for Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). If manipulators can't get anything else from you, they try to get your time and your effort. Oh, and they also try to make you upset. They count on you having a knee-jerk reaction to their confrontational tactics.

              Comment


              • #8
                A good book to read is "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker. Most of the stories here haven't put anybody in danger, but the book does deal with emotional blackmail, which is a feature of these stories.

                Eireann, it's too bad that things ended as they did, but it really does sound as if this person was offering all that help not because she was a nice person, but with a definite agenda. Everybody has bad days, and friends should lend an ear on those days, but when it becomes a matter of every day is a bad day, and friends start feeling as if they're dealing with an emotional vampire ... that's when it's time to let the person know what's going on, and if they refuse to accept it and work on it, then it's time to go.

                Oddly, I once lived with a guy -- for longer than I should have -- who was very much like your description of "Playing the victim." No matter what I suggested to fix his problems, he would have a reason why it wouldn't work ... and then he'd get mad when I stopped suggesting anything.

                Kittish, I was told many many years ago about a technique called the "broken record" method. It sounds kinda like your method. You just give a flat "No", as you said, and when they start with the arguments or the guilt-tripping or the "But WHYYYYYY?" you just repeat yourself ... as often as it takes.
                "I'm sorry, I can't do this."
                "You're not much of a friend!"
                "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can't do this."
                "But why not? At least give me a reason!"
                "I'm sorry, I can't do this."
                "But WHYYYY?!?"
                "Because I can't do this."

                You're not giving them any explanations that they can shoot down, you're just repeating nope, nope, nope ... the idea is that eventually they will get pissed off enough that they'll just leave. Perhaps permanently. Which would be no bad thing.
                Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
                ~ Mr Hero

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                • #9
                  I've read (and have) The Gift of Fear, and de Becker is scarily accurate in his assessments of manipulators.

                  One thing to remember is very important. All people do what they do because they can. Manipulators manipulate because they get away with it, and because this is how they interact with others. Trying to understand them is pointless. You can understand them, because you don't do what they do. You can't see things the way they do, because you are not a manipulator. Furthermore, you don't owe them the time and effort it takes even to try to see things their way. You don't argue with them or try to reason with them. You will never find common ground.

                  So, a manipulator will do something nice for you, or several nice things for you. Often, this is something you didn't ask them to do. If you did ask, they will often go above and beyond. This isn't because they're nice, generous people; it's because they know they can use it against you later.

                  Manipulators who are out for an intimate relationship will overwhelm you with their "generosity". They'll wine and dine you. They'll give you presents. They'll tell you how much you mean to them. They set out deliberately to put you off-balance, so that soon, if you continue seeing them, they'll seem "normal", and the people who warn you about their behavior seem jealous or overly critical. I can't stress this enough; it's happened to me, and it's happened to other people I know. Anyone who doesn't take "no" for an answer is someone to avoid, and I don't give a shit what certain rom-coms and, in particular, one thoroughly insipid book trilogy says.

                  Manipulators try to make you feel guilty. That's bullshit. Sometimes, a genuinely nice person will lose his or her temper and point out nice things they've done, but manipulators do it all the time. They keep score.

                  Negative Nancy and I didn't talk much until I made the mistake of mentioning that I was going in for surgery. I could almost hear her ears prick up at the mention of it. And she wanted to know when I was going, where the surgery would be, what kind of surgery it was, etc. I'm so glad she didn't come to visit me. (Of course, I rejected her calls, so that helped.)

                  I've just blocked this woman's number from my phone, and searched through my emails so I could block her address. It occurred to me that she might try to contact me and play the manipulation game again. Nope, not happening.

                  It's also important to know that you just can't sit down with these people and try to explain things to them. They do not change; they will not change. You can't reason with them, you can't make them see the error of their ways, and you can't help them. You can only, for your greatest good, stay well away from them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Quoth Pixelated View Post
                    A good book to read is "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.
                    <snip>
                    Kittish, I was told many many years ago about a technique called the "broken record" method. It sounds kinda like your method. You just give a flat "No", as you said, and when they start with the arguments or the guilt-tripping or the "But WHYYYYYY?" you just repeat yourself ... as often as it takes.
                    "I'm sorry, I can't do this."
                    "You're not much of a friend!"
                    "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can't do this."
                    "But why not? At least give me a reason!"
                    "I'm sorry, I can't do this."
                    "But WHYYYY?!?"
                    "Because I can't do this."

                    You're not giving them any explanations that they can shoot down, you're just repeating nope, nope, nope ... the idea is that eventually they will get pissed off enough that they'll just leave. Perhaps permanently. Which would be no bad thing.
                    I'll have to look into reading the book. I've seen it mentioned several times.

                    Yep, that's pretty much it, except that I omit the "I'm sorry" bits. I'm not, and I won't lie and say I am. By the time things get to the broken record point, I generally don't much care about staying polite.
                    You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

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                    • #11
                      Quoth Kittish View Post
                      I'll have to look into reading the book. I've seen it mentioned several times.

                      Yep, that's pretty much it, except that I omit the "I'm sorry" bits.
                      Oops ... I posted the Canadian version.

                      Sorry.
                      Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
                      ~ Mr Hero

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Quoth Pixelated View Post
                        Oops ... I posted the Canadian version.

                        Sorry.
                        LOL! I see what you did there.
                        You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've always found the idea of someone giving me gifts out of the blue odd and weird; it makes me wonder what the hell is up with them and what they're after.
                          Figers are vicious I tell ya. They crawl up your leg and steal your belly button lint.

                          I'm a case study.

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                          • #14
                            I found this wonderful article just now:

                            https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/285780

                            I had been wondering why this woman had been so eager to do things for me. She volunteered to visit me in the hospital, then to visit me at home. She volunteered to bring me groceries and/or other things I needed. She talked about making me a get-well present. She offered to give me an item she doesn't use, but in which I was very interested.

                            Yep. Ways to infiltrate my life. I'm really pleased with the way I handled her attempts to manipulate me. Finally, I stood up for myself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sometimes a person may simply be interested in actually helping you. I'd say it depends on how they approach you. I would normally say "Can I pick up some groceries for you? Or is there anything else I can help with?"

                              If the person says "No thanks I'm fine" my response would be "Ok, glad to hear it. Let me know if you change your mind."

                              And that's IT.

                              If they start really pushing it, as she did with you ("I'll come visit you at the hospital! Or even at home! I'll make you a great get-well gift!" etc.) that's when I start to wonder what they're up to.

                              Obviously this doesn't apply to close friends and/or relatives, but from the way I read your story, this woman was neither.
                              Last edited by Pixelated; 09-06-2017, 10:10 PM.
                              Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
                              ~ Mr Hero

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