Human Pinata, or How to Be a "Man."

[blas]

So in essence, she has totally screwed herself for the next time this happens (and I say this because it WILL happen. Men like that don't change. If anyone wants to challenge me, we can take a field trip to Waupon prison and you can meet the guy who killed my cousin, after all, he'd beat up several girlfriends before he actually killed one!).

I do still feel for TD in a way. Who is going to help her the next time he wails on her?

[Jester]

So in essence, she has totally screwed herself for the next time this happens...

In a nutshell: yes.

I do still feel for TD in a way. Who is going to help her the next time he wails on her?

I do to. I feel sadness and pity. As for who will help her next time? I am guessing no one. Or American Airlines. One of the two.

[Sir Spaniard the 12th]

No, I don't get it either. If you can explain it to me in plain simple English, I would love to hear it.

She's confused. Suddenly all the people she felt close to, and relied on for support, aren't. I'm not judging you or those others that pulled away after seeing her run back to him. I have a way to (in most cases), at least slightly, see things from the other point of view due to my habit of overthinking. I'd get fed up myself.

She probably doesn't understand that you all are fed up and drained from going in to bat for her time and again over such a long period, about such a powerful, emotional thing.

Suddenly all she has is the guy who assaulted her for 'support', instead of you and her real friends.. So she's lashing out, sounds like. She can't do it at him, so she's doing it to those she can... Since you all are, in her eyes, giving up.

Though I can't fathom the 'Go back so I can leave later thing'.. Especially when she was so close to doing so anyway, with the law on her side...

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Well, I didn't read all this. I don't need to. I've read enough.

People think I'm a heartless bitch because I have a bad habit of just letting the chips fall where they may in a lot of situations. Because sometimes I've been a lousy, chilly, uncaring "friend." Because I have LITERALLY stepped over the weeping body of someone lying on the floor in my way out the door.

I'm a crummy friend, I'm afraid. And a terrible Christian, too.

Just an FYI Jester. I knew a guy who had his brains blown out by the abusive ex of a chick he was hanging out with. I am pretty sure he never even knew what hit him. Considering how this so often plays out, you'd be smart to stay out of the crossfire. I feel it's best to avoid being in the blast radius of bombs, you know what I mean?

In fact, consider:
http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46204

This beautiful girl went to my church. Her funeral was one of the two most gut-wrenching things I've ever had to sit through. It also reinforces my conviction that it's best to avoid hanging out at ground zero. Her mom had gone to the cops the night of the murder. They didnt' take her seriously. I imagine, they'd heard it all before. Later that night, asshole boyfriend came over. After the murder, Chrystal and her mom rotted in the house FOR A MONTH while the cops did nothing. Why? I imagine they were sick of dealing with the bs. I don't know if there was a history, but you know what? There's always a fucking history. Anyway, they found her when my friend Maurice flew out there and told the cops he was going to force the door if they didn't open it.

Why am I telling you all this? I dunno. I guess to illustrate to you that there possibly is more than a potential ass-kicking in store for you if you don't leave it alone, and God knows at this point you probably know even that would hardly be worth it. Because maybe I'm sick of reading news articles about people I know.

Feh.

And people wonder why I'm so cynical and view the world through shit-colored glasses.

[Eireann]

Jester, I just hate being the one to tell you this, even though I have an idea that you've already figured it out.

She hasn't gone back to him just to leave. She's gone back to him. That's why she's lashing out at all of you. She has to justify (in her own mind) her reasons for going back to him, and the only way she can do that is to believe, or try to believe, that all of you were somehow "worse" than he is. (She must be giving herself migraines trying to do it; after all, none of you beat the crap out of her and then told her she deserved it.)

The problem with situations like these is, when you tell someone that they're in an abusive relationship, they need to get out, etc., is that all too often, they translate this into personal criticism. They think you're telling them that they're no good. YOU aren't the one saying that - BB is - but being the manipulative fuck that he is, he knows how to turn it around and make her believe it. The rest of you have been telling her the truth, straight-up, and she doesn't know how to deal with it, because she's been listening to flat-out lies for a long time.

One other thing I forgot to mention: Bad relationships are an addiction.

It's really a shame that there's no twelve-step group for it, because this is an addiction like any other. You justify your behavior. You lash out at the people who are trying to help you. Your moods change. You keep going back.

The only difference here is that it's a person that's an addiction and not a substance. It doesn't have to be BB. It could be - and probably would be - any jackass who does what BB does. It's a very, VERY hard habit to break, all the harder because the assbastard KNOWS how to get you hooked again. Drugs can't call you up and sweet-talk you. People can.

And trying to figure out her behavior won't get you anywhere. You don't behave like she does, you don't think like she does, and you can't get into her head. There's no sense trying; you'll never understand what makes her tick. And even if you did understand, it wouldn't make her life, or yours, any better.

And for the men out there who don't understand why they can't get a date while many women throw away their lives on abusers - believe me, you don't want to date women like these! There's far more involved than just low self-esteem on their part. They can't be in healthy relationships until they make that decision for themselves, and nobody can make that decision for them.

[protege]

Reading all of this reminds me of someone I knew in college. She'd constantly bitch about her boyfriend to anyone that would listen. Depending on the day, he was an asshole of various levels. Most of us tried to be nice and understanding about it...but eventually you reach a point that you simply don't care anymore. (Not to sound cold, but eventually, it gets rather draining to be used as someone's therapist.)

In fact, several of us in our little group finally had enough...with one girl actually going so far as saying: "He's an asshole. All you've done for the past month is bitch about it. You know he's an asshole, and so does everyone here. If he's so bad, why the hell are you still with him then? We're trying to be there for you about it, but we're really tired of hearing about it. Either do something, or quit whining!"

[MystyGlyttyr]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/br...washing18.html

And for more information in general, http://www.rickross.com/brainwashing.html

Rick Ross has made some mistakes in a few of his dealings, but the man knows his shit when it comes to the effect cult leaders and manipulators have on the human mind. Cults and human psychology are two of the things I've done extensive research on and I wouldn't feel out of place to say that Ross is one of the leading experts on this in the U.S. and probably the world.

Basically, almost everyone has some button that a cult leader can push to bring them in line and under control, it's just a question of finding it. And once they do, it's disturbingly easy to bring another human being under your control so completely that it's basically captivity. You don't have to be some brilliant evil mastermind, you just have to be willing to manipulate someone who's too slow or too innocent to suspect anything until it's too late. These days, so many adults are so weak-willed or naive that FIVE-YEAR-OLDS can do it, we all see it everyday.

So rather than thinking of TD as being a woman going back to her abuser, think of her as a member of a cult that's only got two members, and the leader has spent all this time poisoning her mind against "everyone else" and trying to make her wholly dependant on him. It might not help the behavior make sense, but it's easier to swallow for some.

If you ever feel the need to talk to someone about it, feel free to PM me.

[iradney]

I just found this video. You guys may have seen it on Oprah or something already, but it's about a woman who is beaten by her husband. Her husband tells their 13 year old son to tape him abusing his wife. It's about 10 minutes long, and those that are sensitive shouldn't watch it.
She did eventually leave him, but she describes how he broke her down to nothing, emotionally and psychologically. It might help shed a little light on why TD is acting the way she is.

As said before, Sensitive viewers might not want to watch. There is violence and language.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...n-video-p1.php

[Saydrah]

....That video is labeled as funny WHY now? Didn't watch because I'm at work, but I saw 'funny' in the URL and read the description and went

[iradney]

....That video is labeled as funny WHY now? Didn't watch because I'm at work, but I saw 'funny' in the URL and read the description and went

Yeah, I don't understand why either. Think it's a case of mislabelling, tbh, since the site itself doesn't seem to condone violence against women (or children)

[Pedersen]

Here's a question: What if you worry that you are an abuser? Without going into details, there is someone very close to me who seems to be retreating into her shell.

What if you worry that you are doing mental/emotional abuse to someone, and aren't even aware you're doing it, nor how to stop it if you are?

[Saydrah]

Pedersen,

I am not, repeat NOT a Dear Abby fan (I'm a Dan Savage person), but she republishes at least once a year a column on the warning signs of an abuser, which I find to be very true (except for one point, which I have noted in bold and commented upon).

As follows:

(1) Pushes for quick involvement: Comes on strong, claiming, “I’ve never felt loved like this by anyone.” An abuser presses for an exclusive commitment almost immediately.

(2) Jealous: Excessively possessive; calls constantly or visits unexpectedly; prevents you from going to work because “you might meet someone”; checks the mileage on your car.

(3) Controlling: Interrogates you intensely (especially if you’re late) about whom you talked to and where you were; insists you ask permission to go anywhere or do anything.

(4) Unrealistic expectations: Expects you to be perfect and meet every need.

(5) Isolation: Tries to cut you off from family and friends; accuses people who are your supporters of “causing trouble.”

(6) Blames others for problems or mistakes: It’s always someone else’s fault if something goes wrong.

(7) Makes others responsible for his or her feelings: The abuser says, “You make me angry,” or “You’re hurting me by not doing what I tell you.”

(8) Hypersensitivity: Is easily insulted, claiming hurt feelings when he or she is really mad. Rants about the injustice of things that are just a part of life.

(9) Cruelty to animals or children: Sixty-five percent of abusers who beat their partner will also abuse children.

(10) “Playful” use of force during sex: Enjoys throwing you down or holding you against your will during sex. Finds the idea of rape exciting.

Saydrah's Note: While doing anything against someone's will sexually is wrong and is sexual assault/rape, not everyone who finds roleplay involving rape exciting would find actually committing a rape in any way exciting. Rape is not a sex crime- it is a violent crime and about control, and there is a big difference between someone who finds actual sexual violence exciting and someone who enjoys willingly and consciously partaking of the cultural 'rape myth' portrayed in pornography and elsewhere; in other words, that rape can be enjoyed by the victim. Someone who realizes that is a myth but still enjoys the fiction is not necessarily a potential abuser. End rant.

(11) Verbal abuse: Constantly criticizes or says blatantly cruel things; degrades, curses, calls you ugly names.

(12) Rigid gender roles: Expects you to serve, obey and remain at home.

(13) Sudden mood swings: From sweet to violent in minutes.

(14) Past battering: Admits to hitting a mate in the past, but says the person “made” him (or her) do it.

(15) Threats of violence: Says things like, “I’ll break your neck,” or “I’ll kill you,” then dismisses them with “Everybody talks that way,” or “I didn’t really mean it.”


If you find that your behavior matches several of these signs, that does not necessarily mean you ARE an abuser, but it does mean that you should speak with a professional and discuss why you are worried about your behavior.

However, if you are already concerned, I doubt you are an abuser- if you were, you would be blaming this person, not yourself, for the retreating into the shell.

[Pedersen]

(3) Controlling: Interrogates you intensely (especially if you’re late) about whom you talked to and where you were; insists you ask permission to go anywhere or do anything.

I don't do that. However, I have noticed a disturbing trend: She seems to feel like she needs to ask my permission to go out with friends. Yes, this bothers me. She should be able to say she's going out, and not have to worry about me.

(5) Isolation: Tries to cut you off from family and friends; accuses people who are your supporters of “causing trouble.”

I'm not trying to cut her off, and I think I'm trying to make sure she doesn't. But (for example) she didn't call her parents on Christmas. Pretty much, she doesn't call them at all, even though she seems to like them, and worries about them viewing her in a negative way.

(8) Hypersensitivity: Is easily insulted, claiming hurt feelings when he or she is really mad. Rants about the injustice of things that are just a part of life.

This I think I could be guilty of. I am way too sensitive when things don't go as planned, and I really shouldn't be. After all, life rarely goes to plan. And it's very easy to insult me, though I try to keep that under control, and explain why I felt that way should it happen.

(11) Verbal abuse: Constantly criticizes or says blatantly cruel things; degrades, curses, calls you ugly names.

I definitely try to avoid criticizing her. Try to make her feel special and loved. But I worry that I do criticize without meaning to.

(13) Sudden mood swings: From sweet to violent in minutes.

Violent? No. But my mood swings can be dramatic, from happy to angry to happy within short periods of time (sometimes over a few hours).

However, if you are already concerned, I doubt you are an abuser- if you were, you would be blaming this person, not yourself, for the retreating into the shell.

And yet, I have to ask: Am I being mentally/emotionally abusive, or manipulative, and not even realizing it? Is that what's causing this? Or am I just being overly worried about nothing at all?

Yes, I realize it might be a silly question, but reading these latest posts in this thread, and reading some of the brainwashing material that Mysty posted... I don't know. Hell, for all I know, I'm doing the same thing right now to people reading this. But I'm not actually trying to.

Help, anybody? Even better, insight, anybody?

[Saydrah]

Questioning behaviors that trouble you is the first step to changing it. Maybe the girl you are talking about is depressed, or has a psychiatric disability that is just starting to affect her, or is simply going through a period of withdrawal. Maybe the codependent behavior (needing your permission for things) is something that she was raised to believe women who love the men in their lives are just supposed to do. I can't tell you if any of those are true or not, but a psychiatric professional can make a good guess.

If you are worried about her withdrawal and whether your behavior may be a contributing factor, I suggest couples' counseling- or, if she won't go, just see a therapist by yourself. If you don't like the therapist, try a different one- psychology professionals are like shoes; if you keep trying them on, you'll find a good fit, but the ones that don't fit can be really painful. I come from a family full of psychologists, some of whom are internationally famous in the field, so believe me, I've met a few and some are far less psychologically healthy than their patients! However, the great ones are out there, and they really do help people.

I don't know where you live, but in most areas of the United States there are many free or low cost mental health services available, even if you do not have insurance and don't qualify for government medical assistance. A google search should do the trick (even calling a local Suicide Prevention Hotline, emphasis on LOCAL, can help- they often are happy to help with issues that do not involve suicide and are as simple as needing to find low cost mental health care) but if you need help, feel free to PM or hit me up on AIM- my name is the same on AIM and the boards.

IMHO, you are a caring person and are examining your behavior in an effort to explain a change in someone you care about. That is a good thing, but your behavior isn't necessarily the cause or a contributing factor. Some people become dependent and withdrawn when in a relationship. I can be guilty of this at times despite being poly, and have to consciously make an effort to go out with people I'm not dating, as friends, or I just won't do it. The unfortunate thing is that no matter how much you change your behavior, you can't guarantee you will change hers; it could be that she is just a person who becomes withdrawn into a relationship instead of using the relationship as a secure place that gives her the courage to go out and do more in her life than she would if she were single.

The only thing I can really tell you to do is to continue to examine your behavior and make sure that you are continuing to make her feel loved and special, and also to examine what you are REWARDING with your behavior. Do you give her special attention when she chooses to spend a night alone with you instead of with friends and family? If so, maybe she is subconsciously interpreting that as you wanting her to spend all her time with you. Offering extra support and attention when she DOES go out could be a great reward.

A really nice thing my primary partner does for me to encourage me to be social is to assure me that any time my best friend (who I see far too rarely) and I want to go enjoy ourselves, if he does not have other plans, he will watch and walk my dog so I'm not worrying about the pup while I'm out having fun. He asks about my day and about how my friends are doing- even online ones. For example, last night he asked if I had heard from Jester that day, as he knows Jester and I have been talking on AIM almost every day for a while. Things like that can help her realize that you WANT her to have a life besides the relationship, and that she will not get any less time or attention or affection from you if she has fun with her friends and family.

Long post is long, sorry.

[Eireann]

Adding to Saydrah's good post, I feel it VITAL to point out that even if the person doesn't show these strong signs, that doesn't mean s/he is a good person for a relationship. These control issues can start out very slowly and subtly, increasing as the controller gets the other person under control.

For example, in the initial stages, the person can talk about the "wrongs" that have been done to him/her, skillfully weaving the tale to make it seem that s/he has just the worst luck in the world, and is ever so put upon. GET OUT.

S/he "loves" his/her family completely. This is a tricky one. It could be that the person really does come from a close, loving family. It could also be that s/he knows that talking about the love of family is a great way to get a foot in the door. BE CAREFUL.

S/he doesn't laugh. This is something I've noticed with every controlling asshole I've met. They don't laugh. Either they make a sort of cawing noise that sounds like a laugh, or they just sort of exhale. However, s/he will say (about an event that s/he attended, but you didn't, for example), "I've never laughed so hard in my life." There are some people who laugh noiselessly, and I'm not including them in this warning list. You can see that they're laughing; they're just silent about it. The people to watch out for are those who don't laugh in any way; they just make a pretense of it. BE CAREFUL.

S/he doesn't cry, but talks about times when "I was bawling like a baby." You don't see him/her cry? But s/he claims to cry when upset? This is an attempt to get you to believe that s/he is sensitive. GET OUT.

One cute little trick is to speak in a low, soothing voice that sounds pleasant to the ear. This person doesn't raise his/her voice, even when upset, until you're sucked in. If you haven't seen this person raise his/her voice under any circumstances, regardless of the situation, it can often be an indicator that s/he is keeping bad temper under control for a huge blowup later. BE CAREFUL.

Drugs. Need I say more? Yes - GET OUT.

Fiscal irresponsibility. For some reason, s/he is always broke, despite working steadily. However, s/he is always buying frivolous crap. No money, but a lot of new toys? GET OUT.

S/he doesn't have any friends, or any close friends. S/he often slams those closest to him/her. GET OUT. This person doesn't know the meaning of friendship.

After spending some time with him/her, you notice that s/he is starting to criticize you. Little digs at your appearance, your job, your friends. It's usually so subtle that you don't notice it for quite some time. Noticed it? GET OUT.

S/he has problems up the ass and always bitches to you about them, but if you have a problem, you're "selfish" and "needy" for wanting to talk about it. GET OUT.

S/he doesn't show up on time whenever you make plans. GET OUT.

If you forget something, or goof up, s/he never, never, never lets you forget it. GET OUT.

You're expected to be there for this person, all the time, regardless of what is going on in your life, but this person can't be bothered to help you out, even for the smallest thing. GET OUT.

S/he always has an excuse for anything that is going wrong in his/her life - and it's always someone else's fault. GET OUT.

Another important thing to keep in mind is, in a dysfunctional relationship, the controller is just as addicted to control as the other person is to being a doormat. Hence the possessive behavior, the constant checking up on the doormat's movements, and all the rest of it. This is a person who CAN'T let go, of ANYTHING, and who MUST be in control AT ALL TIMES. It doesn't have to be an intimate relationship. It can be what passes for a friendship, it can be a working relationship, whatever. People too often think that a person who follows them, who checks up on them all the time, does it "because s/he cares". Uh, no. That is NOT what a caring person does, and it's NOT healthy. It's a lie that's given to the doormat, who believes it because s/he has relinquished power over his/her own life.

Remember, everyone, in many cases, it starts small.