Advice On Friendships/Relationships With Those Who Have ADD

[blas]

I am really sorry if I hit a nerve with you JAM, but my post does not signify that I don't accept my bf for who he is, or anyone else who is relating to me in this thread. I am just trying to learn to how better understand how his mind works and how we can improve our conversations and the best way to go about it without hurting each other's feelings.

[Buglady]

ADD, ADHD or no, doesn't really make so much of a difference, or it shouldn't, yes as children it can be a problem, but as an adult they should damn well know how to behave and should have learnt the self control to behave properly, don't accept them using ADHD as a crutch, that's just a cop-out for being to lazy to actually change their behaviour.

The whole thing with ADHD (inattentive, hyperactive, or combined type) is that it is by definition a disorder of attention and impulse control. It doesn't matter how hard a person tries or whether they "know better," sometimes things ARE going to slip (especially under stress, but also sometimes when they start to feel safe with another person). If the behaviour causes offense, it's how they deal with it afterward that counts. A lot of the time, the best one can do is a sincere apology and an increased effort to avoid that specific pitfall in the future - but hey, isn't that true of most human life?

I do agree that it's important not to use ADHD as an excuse - but it's equally important for others to try to understand and not jump to accusations of "using it as a crutch" or whatever. The admonition to "try harder!" or "just control yourself!" is not going to do anything to change the behaviour, but it'll do a real number on the target's self-esteem, not to mention any semblance of a relationship between the person saying those things and their target.

I'm an adult with ADHD, and so is my boyfriend. So are at least 3 of my closest friends - we seem to have gravitated toward each other somehow, well after each of us had been diagnosed, so it wasn't a matter of anyone copying anyone else's diagnosis. For all of us it was a relief to find other people whose brains worked like ours - who didn't get offended if we accidentally interrupted, or forgot what we were saying, or jumped topics 8 times in 15 minutes, or suddenly got distracted by a passing bug (that one's usually me...).

I do know firsthand the damage ADHD in one partner can do to a relationship. It's probably the single biggest reason my first marriage ended. I had not been diagnosed at that point and did not have any way to understand or change the patterns of behaviour that hurt my husband. I interrupted him often (because I was afraid I'd forget what I was going to say); I got distracted all the time and he felt I was not listening to him; my impulsivity in spending and in ideas for the future made him feel frightened and insecure; I would often forget to do things I had meant to or that I had said I'd do. He felt that I was ignoring him a lot of the time or running roughshod over him. I, on the other hand, often felt that he was criticizing me (I am and was very, very sensitive to that), and I stopped feeling safe expressing my ideas or hopes to him because I thought he'd say, "oh, what is it this time? How long will this last, a week?".

Amethyst Hunter mentioned a couple of excellent books. I'd also recommend having a look at http://www.additudemag.com/ - there are several articles by and for the partners/spouses of people with ADHD.

The biggest thing I would counsel for blas is PATIENCE. Try to stop yourself before you react to what seem like slights from your partner; ask directly if that's what he meant. Nine times out of ten he'll be horrified that he said something stupid/insensitive/insulting. If there are specific behaviours that really bug you, talk to him about them. Say very specifically, "when you do (x), I feel (y). Could you please do (z) instead?" Please try to avoid "you always..." or you never..." phrasings because that'll zap straight to the OH GOD I SCREWED UP AGAIN cebter in his brain and he'll be too busy freaking out internally to hear you after that. Not productive!

[JuniorMintz]

I am really sorry if I hit a nerve with you JAM, but my post does not signify that I don't accept my bf for who he is, or anyone else who is relating to me in this thread.

No need to apologize, you didn't actually offend me.

It's just that the subject as a whole hits a nerve, and that basically sums up my feelings on the matter. I've have coworkers and classmates who just can't help talking shit and judging me, so that's where that frustration was coming from.

[Nyoibo]

The whole thing with ADHD (inattentive, hyperactive, or combined type) is that it is by definition a disorder of attention and impulse control....

I do agree that it's important not to use ADHD as an excuse - but it's equally important for others to try to understand and not jump to accusations of "using it as a crutch" or whatever. The admonition to "try harder!"...

Ok, I probably didn't come across as well as I wanted to before, I'll give it another shot, if it's incoherent jibberish I blame sleep depravation.

ADHD is a disorder, but if you look close enough almost everyone has a mental disorder of one type or another it doesn't mean people have to go easier on youor let things slide, most people won't and life usually won't either, I was diagnosed with ADD, back before they classified ADHD, it was also coupled with a fairly above average IQ, I wasn't let to slide on things, I wasn't gone easy on, the opposite, I was expected to outperform others, to behave and to damn well "try harder" as for using it as a crutch, I've seen and known a lot of people, and there are a lot of people out there, not all but a lot, who use ADD, Aspergers and other things as a crutch, "I have this, I can't do things, I shouldn't be expected to do things or conform or behave" it annoys the hell out of me because I did, and still damn well do, people don't go easy on me and and be understanding, and I don't expect them to, people conform to society, society doesn't conform to people, it's the way life is.


Ok, that was longer and rantier than I expected, I apologise if I offended anyone, that's just my experience and opinion.

[Buglady]

I think your first post did come off as harsher than you may have intended, Nyoibo, but I think I see what you are getting at. The whole diagnosis thing can be a double edged sword, because it can become (or be viewed by others as) a crutch or an excuse; it can lead to limited expectations, including limiting opportunities, again by both the individual and by parents/teachers; but at the same time it can also be a profound relief to find out there's a *reason* for having certain difficulties, and this can open up a lot of new possibilities for the individual who is diagnosed. The latter was my own experience.

I was not diagnosed with ADHD until a few years ago (I was 32, in fact), but I was tested as being above average IQ very early on, and that meant the expectations went UP. I spent a very long time struggling and blaming myself for struggling, and it's been such a relief to know why I have some of the difficulties I do. I've been able to put new strategies in place that work *with* instead of against myself, and my family and friends can understand me better now that we all know a bit more about the way my brain is wired. All in all, I would say the most important consequence of my diagnosis has been forgiveness!

I am very open about having ADHD, and also about my experiences with anxiety and depression, not because I am looking for sympathy or for people to go easier on me, but because I really don't fit the stereotype of a person with ADHD and I think it's important to try to open people's eyes. As you say, nearly everyone will have a brush with a mental, emotional, or learning disorder at some point in their lives, and I think it's important for us ALL to go a little easier on each other and on ourselves. To err is human, and all that.

(I'm a fourth-year student in Psychology at the moment. I think that my experiences with ADHD and its consequences have made me a humbler and more empathetic person, and I hope to keep this perspective in my career as a counsellor).

[AdminAssistant]

I'm relatively certain that as a kid, I would've been diagnosed with ADD. But since I started school before that craze started, my teachers/parents were able to figure out that I was just hopelessly bored. But I do have a short attention span, a hard time focusing (sometimes) and I'm really easily distracted. I can be at BT's house talking to him about something, but if the cat hops in my lap I'll start petting the cat, talking to the cat, and completely forget about the fact that I'd been talking to him. Luckily, he finds it all very cute and amusing, so it's not a problem. And we both take wild tangents in conversation.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I'm relatively certain that as a kid, I would've been diagnosed with ADD. But since I started school before that craze started, my teachers/parents were able to figure out that I was just hopelessly bored. But I do have a short attention span, a hard time focusing (sometimes) and I'm really easily distracted...And we both take wild tangents in conversation.

Just as a note for the curious, ADD itself isn't a 'craze-of-the-year'; it's been speculated that the wiring has existed for hundreds if not thousands of years. Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein and Benjamin Franklin have all been postulated to have had ADD (particularly Edison) - though of course we'll never know for sure either way.

There is, however, a trend in recent years towards zinging kids with the ADD label when it's not necessary. This hurts everyone: the non-ADD kid usually gets drugged to the gills for no good reason (other than that the parents/schools don't feel like dealing with the real roots of the problem), and the true ADD kid isn't getting the help that he or she really needs. (South Park once had a hilarious episode dealing with the trend.)

[AdminAssistant]

Oh, I know..it's just that ADD wasn't even considered an option when I was in early elementary. I just wasn't paying attention. Some teachers realized it was because I was just further along in some areas than my classmates, and some teachers used it to target me. We had one teacher who actively hated any student who was missing her precious class because of Gifted & Talented. She particularly hated me. Oh well.

[Broomjockey]

Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein

Actually, they do know the Einstein one's about as true as the "He did poorly in school" story, which is to say, isn't. And if Edison had ADD then working in the patent office must have been hellish o_O

[Buglady]

And if Edison had ADD then working in the patent office must have been hellish o_O

Not necessarily - for a person with the inattentive or combined type the patent office could be the perfect place. I don't imagine there were a lot of interruptions or multiple demands on attention, and nobody would really notice if you zoned out periodically (Also, wasn't Einstein the one who worked int he patent office? Or was that the post office? I forget).

I read a really interesting book by Thom Hartmenn called "The Edison Gene." (Published 2003). He argued that not only does ADHD represent a specific, and normal, part of the range of possible human personality traits, it's also been a beneficial one for most of our history as a species. I'm not sure I would take it as far as he does - he claims that ADHD was the key to human survival of ice ages, since the people who were willing to adapt their lifestyles and move away from the ice were teh ones that survived - but it was nice to read something that framed ADHD in a positive light for once

AdminAssistant, if you want childhood trauma - try getting bumped up to, and then out of, the Gifted & Talented class They kept saying' "we know you're smart! Why don't you try harder? Are you bored? Here, have some more work!"

[Broomjockey]

Not necessarily - for a person with the inattentive or combined type the patent office could be the perfect place. I don't imagine there were a lot of interruptions or multiple demands on attention, and nobody would really notice if you zoned out periodically (Also, wasn't Einstein the one who worked int he patent office? Or was that the post office? I forget).

Edison snagged several inspirations from his time at the patent office, so I know it was him. Einstein must have been the post office I guess. And I guess you're right about the atmosphere at the Patent Office, since everything would have pretty much been by mail at that time. I don't imagine many people would have gone cross-country to make an inquiry...

[Amethyst Hunter]

Not necessarily - for a person with the inattentive or combined type the patent office could be the perfect place. I don't imagine there were a lot of interruptions or multiple demands on attention

NOTHING makes me more homicidal in .02 seconds than getting interrupted in the middle of doing something (particularly something I enjoy) or being hit with multiple demands all at once. I simply can't process and get overwhelmed - I basically shut down mentally and have to literally remove myself from the situation lest I go into a screaming berserk rage. I've been known to bite off family members' heads for doing this to me.

I read a really interesting book by Thom Hartmenn called "The Edison Gene."

*snaps fingers* Thom Hartmann! That's the guy whose name I couldn't remember.

[Buglady]

NOTHING makes me more homicidal in .02 seconds than getting interrupted in the middle of doing something (particularly something I enjoy) or being hit with multiple demands all at once. I simply can't process and get overwhelmed - I basically shut down mentally and have to literally remove myself from the situation lest I go into a screaming berserk rage. I've been known to bite off family members' heads for doing this to me.

Me too - this is one of the things that having the diagnosis REALLY helped with, because I could explain WHY it threw me off so badly. I also quit trying to multitask. I can't do it; never could, never will - but I can single-task to a fairly awesome degree. (Hyperfocus is the best-kept secret of ADHD. I can't control it or predict it, but when it happens, I can accomplish more in an hour than most people can all day).

I need a fair amount of structure, and it really helps me to have a heads-up about an hour or so before I will need to go somewhere or do something. More than an hour and I'll forget, less and I get all flustered.

That's somethign The Boy and I are working on, because he's a lot more on the hyperactive/impulsive side than I am and he feels hurt when he comes Tiggering up with an idea and I kind of go "you mean... right now? But... I just got in the groove here..."

[Amethyst Hunter]

I also quit trying to multitask. I can't do it; never could, never will - but I can single-task to a fairly awesome degree. (Hyperfocus is the best-kept secret of ADHD.

Multitasking is evil. Even "normal" people can't do it as well as they think they can. There've been studies showing that people actually accomplish less and take longer to do it when multitasking as opposed to single-focusing.

No offense intended to those of you who believe you're multitasker pros, of course.

I call my hyperfocus my 'hyperdrive'. When I get going, God help you if you get in my way, 'cause I'll just steamroll you over. I AM ON A MISSION FROM GOD. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE AND YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. I love it when the hyperdrive fixes on my writing mode; I can just go and go and go like that damn rabbit with the battery, to the point where I forego sleep because I'm on a ROLL, dammit, and I don't want to stop! (Alas, reality, why must thou cut me so?)

I need a fair amount of structure, and it really helps me to have a heads-up about an hour or so before I will need to go somewhere or do something. More than an hour and I'll forget, less and I get all flustered.

I think that's some of why I went so badly haywire once I graduated high school. Without that structure, as miserable as my HS time was, I had no clue what to do with myself. So I more or less dug my own grave. (There were other Big Issues involved as well, like my depression and the fact that at the time people all around me were dropping deader than flies, but that's another story...)

[RootedPhoenix]

I'm ADD too. I was diagnosed at 7 years old. My mother told me point blank to never use it as a crutch. It was not to be an excuse to get out of stuff; rather it was to be an explanation for why I might need to do things differently and perhaps with slightly different tools. She figured I could do whatever it was that was needed. I was merely different, not unable.

I am not neurotypical, and never will be. I merely need to discover how I can unlock what I need in my own way. One of my favorite things about ADD is that I feel like I have a different view, and as such, can take advantage of it to interact with the world and achieve what I want and need to. It's creativity, I suppose. (Not that many, many people with many different sorts of mental wiring aren't creative, just that ADD has its own brand, so to speak.)

I've been able to sort out my own adaptations for several things. I just get mad when people demand that everything be done in the same cookie-cutter way by everyone. I can't imagine that being the right way to deal with a world full of unique individuals, no matter how their brains are wired.

Those who use it as a crutch are hurting themselves, I think. They could, maybe, discover many nice things about themselves and the world. They are missing out on some cool stuff. How awful to be them.

I also quit trying to multitask. I can't do it; never could, never will - but I can single-task to a fairly awesome degree. (Hyperfocus is the best-kept secret of ADHD. I can't control it or predict it, but when it happens, I can accomplish more in an hour than most people can all day).

On two occasions, I have written entire 1000 word papers in about two hours while in this sort of a mode. This is significant when you consider that my typing speed is roughly that of a racing snail. (20-30 words per minute, or so.) I got on a roll and didn't let up until I was done. I'm still not sure how it occurred, but I'm massively grateful that it did. *phew* Means I got my papers in on time!

Multitasking is evil. Even "normal" people can't do it as well as they think they can. There've been studies showing that people actually accomplish less and take longer to do it when multitasking as opposed to single-focusing.

I don't do very well myself. I have six tabs open in Firefox right now, but that's just because I want to have things open and ready for when I'm ready to look at them. I'm focused on CustomersSuck.com, and typing this post.

I call my hyperfocus my 'hyperdrive'. When I get going, God help you if you get in my way, 'cause I'll just steamroll you over. I AM ON A MISSION FROM GOD. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE AND YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. I love it when the hyperdrive fixes on my writing mode; I can just go and go and go like that damn rabbit with the battery, to the point where I forego sleep because I'm on a ROLL, dammit, and I don't want to stop! (Alas, reality, why must thou cut me so?)

I do the same thing! When I'm on a roll (especially in writing!) I do not want to stop for food, rest, or anything else. (Love the Borg reference, btw. Spot on, too!)

Blas, I think the best thing is to tell your boyfriend that the things he's doing bug you while he's doing them. It's not out of a lack of caring for you that he interrupts, he's just got this monster idea pounding to get out of his mind via his mouth, and it's being awful loud about its presence. He can do it, he can remember not to interrupt.

Just be gentle. Don't let him forget that you care about him, but tell him that this action of his is what frustrates you. Like others have said, if what you say sounds accusative, he will be catapulted in to the zone of OH CRUD I STINK I'M SORRY I'LL NEVER DO IT AGAIN (WHAT DID I DO, EXACTLY?). That last bit is the worst part, (the "what did I do") because I know I don't always get what I've done to anger someone. I merely know that they're angry with me for something and I feel crappy. It's not rational, I don't think, but that is what happens. I just think someone hates me, when in fact it's not that bad. (Another ADD trait is making BIG things out of relatively tiny things, which is something else at play here.)

If you're gentle, he will learn. A gentle atmosphere has always been the best for me. I still screw up, but I'm much more able to process what is being said to me. I like being able to fix my mistakes.

Hopefully this isn't too long. I'm only a PM away if anybody needs help with dealing with ADD folks.