I need some advice. (relationship messy-ness involved..beware)

[Seshat]

Whether you choose to leave them alone together again or not, they can be alone together. Short of stapling one of them to your side, they can arrange to be alone together. This is true even if you don't let her back into your life.

Your husband will have the opportunity to hurt you this way many more times during your life together - every time he meets someone who isn't you.
Your friend can only hurt you this way with your husband. If she found someone else who she liked, you'd be happy for her, not hurt.


Keeping her out of your life doesn't prevent you from being hurt by her. But it does prevent you from having good times with her. Will seeing her and being around her bring up the bad memories too much to be worth the potential good times?

Only you can answer that.

[DesignFox]

I'm sorry you have to go through this.

For me, I'm a fiercely loyal person. When I love, I love with all my heart. When I give my loyalty and trust to someone, I very much expect that in return. The one thing I could never tolerate in a relationship is a person betraying my trust.

I've had it happen before, the guy didn't cheat so far as I know, but there was a bunch of other BS going on that just wasn't kosher. When it happened, I should have broken up with him, and I didn't. While part of me told myself I trusted him after he came clean, I just couldn't bring the rest of me to ever believe it- and it made the last couple years of our relationship rather rocky and frankly, quite miserable.

Granted, I don't have any children, nor do I see any in my near future. I can see how that might complicate matters. Anyway, if you are happy with your decision to work things out with your husband, then I 100% applaud the two of you.

I don't know that that is something I could deal with.

As for your friend- it is certainly understandable to miss her. I still miss people that have passed out of my life- and I have occasionally wondered how some ex or other of mine was doing, or missed some friend or other, even if they HAVE wronged me.

It's only natural to miss the good times. It's natural to miss what once was. But, for me, the relationship is forever tainted after the badness. I can't say I'd want to hang out with either of my former long-term SOs. The betrayal and the hurt is a bit too much to deal with. For me, I can look back on the good times with fondness, I can be cordial if I see them and I do every once in awhile hope that things are ok with them. But I don't want to be around them. There's a reason we aren't dating anymore or aren't friends anymore. I see no reason to drag up the hurt for either of us.

If it were me, I'd let her go. Well, I'd probably let them both go. I really can't see myself handling a situation like that very well. And once my trust is broken, it's broken. There's no getting it back. I'll forgive. But I really don't forget.

I'm sorry that this is something you are dealing with. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

[Cookiesaur]

I haven't had this happen to me, but I had to be there to help pick up the pieces when it happened to a friend of mine.

You asked if we would feel better if someone had forgiven us after a huge fuck-up, but still kept the distance.

Let ME ask YOU if you would feel better if you started talking to this girl again, and found out instead that regardless of how much you missed her, you couldn't look at her the same way, and nothing was ever the same between you? There was a girl I was very close friends with who did something terrible to me. I eventually forgave her because I was tired of hating her so much, and she desperately tried to be my friend again, but it wasn't happening. Every time I saw her, I would look at her and remember what she did to me, and she would know I was thinking about it, and it was just this big elephant in the room we didn't want to talk about. We were all out at dinner one night with some friends from work and she was telling some story about how close the two of us were, had her arm around my shoulder and everything, and I just lost it on her. I hadn't even realised I was still that angry. I snapped, "Gee, it's convenient you only remember all the good stuff you did for me and not the time you completely fucked my life over." She tried to laugh it off, but she was hurt. Eventually, she just stopped calling.

I mention this because you say you throw what happened in your husband's face a lot. I'm not coming down on you for this, and I can't say how I would react in a similar situation. If you started talking to this person again, would you do the same thing to her if you got angry? Further, every time you were talking or spending time together, could you keep yourself from thinking about how badly she hurt you?

Because I don't know you or your friend, I am EXTREMELY unqualified to give advice on this matter. I just wanted to offer up my own opinion, because I've been hurt by a friend before. Maybe keep your contact with her limited at first so you can see how you feel about it and make sure it's not just nostalgia setting you both up for a fall. Whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you.

Would I want someone who I'd hurt badly to forgive me and start talking to me again? Yes.

But only if things were well and truly buried, because otherwise we'd just be looking at more hurt and anger drawn out for both of us in the long run.

[draftermatt]

He will be the first to tell you, however, that I am still a bitter bitch about it and sometimes I use it against him or say shit to piss him off. I know, thats not exactly healthy but I cant really help it. Some people would say "then you really didnt forgive him." I believe i did, its just my own brand. As far as trusting him, I dont 100% b/c when I did, he fucked up..so no more..and he knows this, its something he's willing to live with.

I know I commented once before, but every time I read this thread something eats at me and I haven't figured it out until just now, and it's this part I quoted.

Only you know how you're feeling and I respect that, but I wouldn't bet he's willing to live with it.

I once read an article about arguing that basically states you should argue to resolve, not win, and bringing up ancient history really isn't resolving anything. Especially if the argument started about not taking out the garbage.

Most people get tired of getting something they've apologized for and been "forgiven" for thrown back at them.

One day he might just say "Enough" because how many times can you apologize?

I know I already said "can you trust them alone together" but think of it this way, he hasn't cheated again, and he certainly hasn't done anything with her again, even though he could have as I'm sure he doesn't check in with you every 10 minutes.

I'm not trying to pick on you, and I apologize if I've overstepped my bounds, and as I'm writing I'm saying "click x and ignore this thread" but I'm worried that you're heading for more hurt...

[Shangri-laschild]

Minus the level of betrayal, I'm in a similar situation.

I had a best friend a while back. She and I were close and shared so much with each other. She screwed up big with me a couple of years ago. She kept either bullshitting at trying to make things better, or just really fumbling at it to the point where I just gave up and shut her out. A couple of months ago, I started to really miss her. While she and I weren't speaking, she had her first child. Looking at the pictures of him made me so sad that I hadn't been there for her for that. It made me feel like there was so much that I had missed that I shouldn't have.

I had a problem though. I couldn't just say "sorry for freaking out." She did in fact screw up all those years ago. So if I talked to her and she tried to say she hadn't done anything wrong, we would be at a big impass because while I could deal with just putting it in the past, her making a huge deal of it and trying to argue about it would be a problem. I spent a couple of months trying to get up the courage to talk to her, but it was important to me. I've yet to meet someone who I can joke around with like her and her not being there anymore had still after all those years left a big hole. Finally we did get back in touch. She appologized for everything without me even bringing anything up.

We've been emailing back and forth for a bit now and it's been really nice. Things are enough in the past that my missing her has overpowered any lasting hurt feelings. Things aren't exactly the same as they were before. She's not exactly the same person as she used to be, but no less my friend.

I'm not saying that this is exactly how it would go for you. Just that with me, I missed her bad enough that, especially with her appology later, I was able to put aside the hurt feelings. It may not work. But it sounds like you really do miss her. You could always try taking things slow.

[Amina516]

So, i've really read everyones advice here and have thought about it for a while.

I have decided not to open the doors of communication with her, and just leave things be. I dont know what there is to be gained by talking to her again...and why have a friend that I would hesitate to invite over the house? What kind of awkwardness would there be between her and my husband?

Obviously, you guys dont know me, but I know it sounds dumb and hypocritical to "forgive" one and not the other, but such is life. This is such a different direction than anything I would normally do...I am a very slow to forgive person, so taking my husband back at all goes against every grain in my body and at times I'm angry with myself for it, but I do think it was for the best.

And while I do "throw" it back in his face, its not a daily or even a monthly occurence...I dont wake him up with a "Remember that time you kissed my friend?" in the mornings. LOL...but I do remember it, and he knows it. He has already said that he will spend his life trying to earn my trust back, and while we're not at 100% and may never be, He and I are both willing to keep going.

I do want to thank everyone that took the time to respond, it nice to see all the different perspectives...you guys are great and you rock.

[blas]

Don't be too hard on yourself for being slow at forgiving. Everyone is different.....in all honesty, one of my peeves is people who nag me to be more forgiving, don't hold grudges, you'll give yourself an ulcer, blah blah blah.....you know, I know I shouldn't be so hard on people who have screwed up before, but I have to look out for myself and my own feelings and mental health.

And it's not selfish at all to look out for yourself. Do you know one of the main reasons I've been screwed over so many times? Because I didn't look out for myself and cared too much for others. I'm not saying walk away and laugh at someone who falls off a bicycle, but never let people manipulate you and walk all over your feelings. You are important. You come first.

[Amina516]

. I'm not saying walk away and laugh at someone who falls off a bicycle..

So, youre saying I should stop?


But I got what youre saying. Im not the mean, bitach I used to be, anyone can tell you, Ive grown up..alot. I can still be a witch...but a nicer one with more common sense.

[Evil Queen]

First, more cookies.

*gives cookies*

Second; it takes two to tango. But if you were able to forgive your husband (not what I would have done, but I'm a vindictive bitch of late), I believe you can continue to be friendly with this person, if not absolute friends. Polite "Hello" here and there, ya know? Like the co-worker you don't really care for, but won't actually go out of your way to deal with. Though it would be nice if you knew, for absolute sure, what the circumstances to your hubby and your friend snogging away was. Your friend should have known that the wedding ring means "Back the Hell Off!"

[Slytovhand]

Damn... I'm late (oh well, that's what happens when you don't CS a lot...).

Change is inevitable (except from a vending machine). "The Day the
Earth Stood Still" is a nice example. Humans like being difficult, and they will only change in a more positive way when they are given a good enough reason to... and sometimes, only for a short time. Others will get it pretty quick, others take a long time. Where someone is at, how much they've changed, is very difficult to perceive. Maybe, just maybe, they've both learnt a lesson the hard way - hard enough to make them change, and never make that mistake again. And EVERYONE makes mistakes.

I wrote this years ago (and unfortunately, didn't write it all down when I first thought of it, so it's been cut short

Trust can never be proven, only disproven.

For a lifetime of trust can be destroyed in one simple event.

But even then, see whether the trust has been broken, or only your expectations have been disappointed, for often we confuse the two - trust and expectation.

Do you expect loyalty to come to you personally before it is given to an ideal? If you act with dishonour, do you expect your friends, those you say you trust, to back you up? Or do you expect them to do otherwise? And if they act with honour where you act with dishonour, will you say that they have betrayed your trust?

And even then, remember that all people have the power of choice, and they may choose other that what you would have them choose – would you then condemn them for that?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


Finally, I was in your friend's position once many years ago. My mate had his heart set on someone... someone who took an interest in me (and whom I had said to him, if he doesn't do something about her then I will). She had told me that absolutely nothing was going to happen between them, and she let him know that in no uncertain terms. She and I were going to get together... but she bailed at the last minute (that minute was in my home on the couch). Ok, they weren't married, nor even together in any way (other than friends...btw - they did get together briefly later - then she dumped him for someone else...). But, he said to me how angry he was, and he really just wanted to punch me out.

We're still best mates (and she, btw, is pitied).


All the above aside.. can you forgive yourself? I'm thinking you still beat yourself up that you trusted 2 people who betrayed you - and you want to blame yourself for giving that trust in the first place. It's incredibly easy to be angry towards other people, and thus to blame them. Not so easy to see it towards yourself. I'm thinking, the dreams are trying to tell you that. You still love her, but don't want to let go of the hurt - and thus the mistrust and betrayal. It gives you a safety net, it puts up a wall that people can't climb... so you can't get hurt again. (yep, I know all about that!) But walls work both ways.

Do I think you should let her back into your life?? Dunno. I don't know her. I only know that I'm really good at burning bridges... I removed a friend from my life that I had for 18 years...(and not because of a mistrust). But, as I said, sounds like your dreams are saying to give her a chance...cos, in your heart, that's what you want to do. It sounds like it's your head that's saying no.