Advice please for me on Child Rum

[Setsunaela]

When I was in middle school part of our 'gifted' class was spending an hour a week with the handicapped children, and we were assigned buddies. As I recall my 'buddy' was autistic and partially deaf, so I got to learn some signs, and helped her out with class activities. She had a similar fascination with trying to shut the desk drawer on her fingers.
What I ended up doing was "shutting" the drawer on my own finger, miming it really, and then signing for "ouch" to demonstrate it hurt, then pointing at her newly-acquired scab on her knee (she'd fallen on the sidewalk) and signing it again.
She finally made the association, and got why myself, and the teacher and teacher's aide, wouldn't let her shut the drawer on her fingers, or the classroom door, her locker, etc. and was actually overly careful shutting things for a while afterward.
your mileage may vary, but perhaps that would work? (not the signing bit obviously)

[Saydrah]

I asked an autism-spectrum friend of mine if she has any suggestions-- she didn't right now but said she'd think about it.

My guess, personally, is this is all related. She might be really frustrated with getting in trouble so often for the tantrums about TV shows, and is having trouble expressing herself so she has more tantrums and then tries to slam her fingers in things. Maybe it would help, like Setsunaela mentioned, to teach her a little sign language so she can express herself when she's having trouble using her words? You could teach the signs for emotions like "angry" and "sad" and tell her to use them to tell you how she is feeling if she doesn't feel like she can express it verbally other than through screaming.

One thing you could consider trying for her, with your pediatrician's consent, is a lightly weighted vest, if she doesn't have one already:

http://www.weightedvest.com/

Wearing a weighted vest provides security and comfort for some Autistic children and even adults-- it's kind of like getting a hug or cuddle, but without the social pressure of physical contact with another human being. There's also some scientific evidence that it slows down the speed at which the brain processes stimuli, giving kids with autism a chance to integrate their senses and thoughts before they act out in response to something.

[PCGameGuy]

My .02 is that you should let the child get 'hurt' in a minimal way now, to prevent them trying on their own when you are distracted. The missus and I had this conversation a few thousand times as our little ones grew up, and whenever we just let them do the behavior they seemd to learn and move on. If not, well, the melted patches of rug show how effective 'no playing with matches' was. :/ I tended to let them 'get away with it' while actually watching like a hawk and setting up the situation for them. This lets the feel as if they did the action on their own, and keeps them from thinking it was my fault that the negative outcome occurred. Also, can't stress it enough, try not to make the issue any more important than it needs to be. That way leads to therapy.

[CaroPhoenix]

Saydrah - Child Rum used one at the Pre-School she was in before starting Kindergarten. The teacher said they don't use those in the regular school settings. I might buy one and have her wear it at home. Maybe get a doctor's note from her Developmental Pediatrician saying this is medically necessary for her to continue in school? I know it's something that's definitely needed to wear at home too.

Also, are there like DVDs or something that will help me and her learn the Sign Language?

Ni Hao, Kai-Lan which is a show on Noggin Channel, is a show that helps her friends figure things out. One is how to calm down. I've used that on her a few times, and it seems to work. However, when she's in this state, I have to grab her face and fight with her to look at me. Then I'm afraid I'm hurting her. I guess it's a no-win situation. She's strong for a 5-year-old.

And as most of you know, Mr. Rum is absolutely no help at all. He seems to think child rearing is "wife's job". *le sigh*

LOL @ PCGameGuy's advice ... especially the therapy bit. Thanks

[Kogarashi]

I'm afraid I'm not much help with autistic children either. However, our two-year-old is going through some of the same phases your daughter is, and here's what we do basically.

For shutting things, she actually does pretty well. She's pinched her hands (lightly) a couple of times, which taught her pretty quickly that it's no fun to shut your fingers in things, and she remembers that when we tell her to be careful. She's only burned herself on the stove once, lightly and on accident (bumped a hot pot, I think), and doesn't touch sharp objects at all because we've reiterated that the knives and such are sharp and "for Mommies and Daddies only." We then distract her from those with something she's allowed to handle (such as a blunt dinner knife, or the soap sponge for helping with dishes). Whenever she helps us with dinner, we reiterate the lessons, mostly by asking her questions so she can show us how much she remembers and then get praised for remembering so well.

For rewards, we have a notebook with a brightly colored cover that we put stickers in. If she helps pick up the living room after playtime, or lets us change her diaper instead of throwing a fit, or helps out in the kitchen or whatever, she gets a few stickers of her choice to add to the book.

For punishment, we do time-outs. She's got a kitchen timer that beeps when she's all done, and I make sure her time-out is in a boring spot where she's not allowed to play with anything, such as on the couch where I can see her or sitting on a plastic bin in my bedroom if I'm back there. If she continues to throw a fit or starts hitting/throwing things, her time-out goes longer, and I explain that to her so she learns consequences. So far it seems to be working. I learned from personal experience that, when I was a child, I couldn't be sent to my room as punishment. I'd just grab a book and read if I wasn't too busy throwing a screaming fit over the punishment. Mom and Dad had to make sure the time-out was as boring as humanly possible.

If you think talking to the pediatrician or therapist will help, even a little, go for it. Both should be able to offer autism-specific advice that most of us here probably can't. Good luck with your daughter!

[Saydrah]

Ok, my friend messaged me with her thoughts:

"I thought of something. The slamming of fingers in doors might be a specific pressure/sensation seeking thing. The 'I want broken fingers' threw me off -- because I doubt she really does, but of *course* I had to take her literally -- she could be trying to say 'I want this kind of pressure, and if feeling it means broken fingers, then I want broken fingers.'"

If that's the case, maybe some tight gloves or wrapping her hands up in some elastic bandage when she starts doing that would satisfy her? Or giving her one of those "Chip Clips" that snap slowly enough they wouldn't hurt fingers, and letting her press her fingers in it? It could be the same "slowing stimuli processing" thing as the weighted vests, and she's trying to help herself think and communicate.

If you get a weighted vest that looks fairly unobtrusive, you might not even need a note saying it's medically necessary, but if it helps her and they don't want her to wear it at school, definitely get the doctor's note. Your child has the right to assistive medical technology that helps to mitigate the effects of her condition. Telling her she can't use such an assistive device in school is illegal.

For sign language you could try the Baby Sign DVDs:

http://astore.amazon.com/babysignstorerev-20

They are designed for very young kids, but they cover the basics that she'd need, like emotions, hungry, thirsty, etc. There's also this page:

http://www.sproutonline.com/SPROUT/A...cgoodnightshow

Which has short videos teaching various signs one at a time.

By the way, forcing her to look at you probably doesn't help her very much-- eye contact is intimidating for many people on the Autism spectrum, especially when already upset. You could try telling her to look wherever she wants as long as her ears are listening to you. Or you could teach her to look somewhere other than your eyes when you talk to her, like your hands or your neck.

Maybe a Behavioral Therapist could be of some use for Mr. Rum? He might listen to an expert opinion on the need for a primary caregiver for a special needs child to have some help from their spouse.

[wagegoth]

Mr. Rum has to get involved if things are going to get any better. Has to. Drag him to meet Child Rum's teacher and have her talk to him. Same with the pediatrician.

My older son and I exhibit some ASD behaviors. However, it was my younger son who managed to start a fire on the kitchen stove. (If you ever saw Soul Food, you would have seen the situation. Thankfully, we had a fire extinguisher right there, and got it out before it spread.) Stubborn, yes. But I kept a firm grip on him, literally and figuratively, from the time he was small. I did not force him to look me in the eyes (something I often have to push myself to do with others) unless I believed he was tuning me out. Same with my younger son.

And as others have mentioned, don't let her get away with her behavior, no matter how strong she is. Explain everything as much as possible, but be prepared to deal with a screaming, crying, unhappy child. No child is perfectly happy, autistic or not. They have to learn to deal with it. She has to learn now, or she will not learn. She throws something down or breaks it? It's no longer hers. It's now your property or it goes in the trash, never to be replaced. She doesn't like what you want to watch on TV, she can go in her bedroom, but she has to be quiet, or she is going to lose privileges, toys, etc. until her behavior improves.

Better yet? Take the car and go out for the evening, leaving your husband there with her.

[Broomjockey]

Better yet? Take the car and go out for the evening, leaving your husband there with her.

Uh, if he refuses to take responsibility, that's a terrible idea. It's more likely for him to just ignore child Rum until something happens.

[wagegoth]

Uh, if he refuses to take responsibility, that's a terrible idea. It's more likely for him to just ignore child Rum until something happens.

True, but it's much harder to ignore the situation if you're the only parent there.

[Nashida]

Ok, I'll confess....My doctors thought I was autistic when I was growing up. I did many of the things Child Rum is doing now. Thank God my parents got help with me; I'm lucky they didn't just dump me somewhere: I was awful.

Here's what they did a lot when I was smaller:

-If I threw something, yelled, screamed, or threw a fit, they'd take away whatever I was into at the time, be it TV, a toy, video games, or computer time. They'd keep it for a certain amount of time (usually a week), or I'd have to earn it back somehow. I had to prove to them I wouldn't do it again.
-Misbehaving in public got me a trip back home. It didn't matter where we were or what we were doing; one slip-up had us packing. Of course, any more tantrums got additional punishment once we got home
-Timeouts were in my room, but oddly enough they didn't care what I did. I could read, draw, color...whatever kept me quiet so I could think about what I did. More noise meant more time in my room.

As far as the whole shutting doors on her fingers thing...let her do so once or twice to see how it feels so she learns that it's not a pleasant feeling, and hopefully she'll learn quick. The "I want broken fingers!" thing did throw me off though.

[Seshat]

Also, are there like DVDs or something that will help me and her learn the Sign Language?

I'm sure there are. Your local public library probably has some, and if not, should know where you can look for them.
When I'm distressed, I often find it easier to sign than to speak.

[Dips]

We saw a behavior therapist with our son. I won't get into the details, but he developed a behavior-based eating disorder at the age of 3.

It wasn't a problem at first because he was getting tube feedings via a g-tube for several years. Eventually, though, the medical reasons for keeping him on the g-tube retreated (or so we thought). We decided to get him off the g-tube, but it wasn't possible if he wasn't eating.

After making sure there wasn't a physical issue we started working with a behavior therapist to address the eating disorder so that he could take all his food by mouth eventually.

Both his father and I were present at each session, although we were asked to step outside occasionally when the therapist wanted to work one-on-one with him.

We were given assignments and goals. It was made quite clear that if both of us weren't on board, it wouldn't take. It's very easy for one parent to undermine the other without realizing it.

Progress was slow, but it was working. We even made it to the point where we were able to cut back on some of his tube feedings because he was taking enough calories by mouth to make up for it.

The keys are not to expect instant results, to be consistent in the short terms, and to follow through in the long term.

I hope that gives you some idea of what to expect should you go the behavior therpist route. Ours was really invaluable. I think having someone who isn't as emotionally invested in the situation work on it with you helps tremendously. It gives you a chance to step back and look at it rationally and find a solution.

[PhotoChick]

I also found this online for the doors in your house. http://babble.com/CS/blogs/droolicio...s-fingers.aspx

Maybe you could make your own.

[Setsunaela]

in regards to learning sign language, a couple free online places to learn (both with video and written descriptions of the signs) are lifeprint.com and aslpro.com
both websites offer extensive dictionaries of words, and both have 'for babies' sections.