CS legal people, need advice

[TTAZ]

Okay anybody with experience drawing up contracts, etc. please advise me.

What I want to do is draw up a document that states:

* that there was an agreement between myself and my son's father for $200 a month child support

*due to unemployment he has not made a payment since August 2007

*that upon getting viable employment he owes me full back child support as well as continuing monthly payments of $200, and a timeline for completion of backpayment

*a visitation agreement

*a proviso that I am under no obligation to facilitate visitation while support is not paid

*if these terms are not met (if he skips town, if I don't receive back payments) I can sue the living daylights out of him


Any advice? Can this kind of thing even be done up into a legally binding document? Should I just go to a paralegal and have them do it, or is there a way I can draw it up, we both sign and have it notarized?

[Der Cute]

IANAL OR IANAParalegal.

IMO: Unless you have anything in writing from the husband BEFORE now, either alluding or agreeing fully to the agreement of $200/month - you do not have leg to stand on.

If you do - then take it to a Family Court Judge. Let THEM go after SOB's. The Family Courts will automatically garnish wages. And pay you.

Just my 2 internetcents.

Cutenoob

[One-Fang]

Cutenoob, I think that's kinda why she wants to make the contract now - to provide a leg to stand on.

AFAIK you can make a contract with another adult that specifies anything you want - provided both agree to it. Is the ex likely to sign those particular clauses? If so go ahead and write it up. If money's an issue, DIY it. You sould like you're pretty clear on the specifics and as long as everything is detailed and both sign with witnesses, it WILL be legally binding.

Of course, I can't see anyone signing "You can sue the living daylights out of me" so maybe you want to be cagey about that one. Maybe even leave it out. If you have a contract with terms in it that he doesn't meet, you CAN sue him for failure to meet your written contract. You don't need to have him agree that you can sue him for that.

[Shards]

CN is right. Unless you had a prior written agreement to $200/month, you have no leg to stand on and are not likely to receive the back child support.

However, if you have custody over the child, then you not being obligated to facilitate visitation is an automatic. I would draw up a written agreement stating that he is responsible for finding a way to get you $200 a month for Child Support if he wants visitation rights, that way when he signs it the first month he doesn't pay up, you stop giving him visitation rights, no need for the courts to come in.

I am curious what you intend to accomplish by taking him to court. Court fees cost money to the accuser, too, and it would also place a constraint on your time which then has to be taken away from the very child you intended to help with this. The only real reason to sue somebody, from a practical standpoint, is to force them to pay for something. However, if he has no way of paying for it, then you won't get shit except for court fees and a good deal of wasted time if you try to sue him. If you're lucky, his family will pitch in to help him pay off whatever you win from him, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any big payoff considering what you've said in your prior threads about him.

The best solutions to any problem are handled outside courts. Create a situation where he understands there are consequences to his actions and that should he take you to court of his own choosing, he will lose, and then let it settle. You don't need a court battle, Nelson doesn't need a court battle, and your wallet doesn't need the fees associated with a court battle.

[TTAZ]

I don't want to go to court at all. I hate the way AZ handles child support through the courts and I know they will not recognize the prior casual agreement made between us. The contract I want will legitimize the prior arrangement so if I HAVE to go to court, I will have legal evidence of the back payments not received. Does that make sense?

As for the term "sue the living daylights out of him" I was paraphrasing for goodness sake! I know if this contract is done up all nice and legal and he screws me over I can sue his skinny ass, even if that exact phrasing isn't in the document itself.

Can you imagine?

"The undersigned also agrees that should he default on any of these terms, the author of the contract does have the right to sue his skinny ass into oblivion and/or nail the undersigned's nuts to her wall without prior removal."

I shoulda gone to law school

[Shards]

Well keep in mind that you need to get him to sign it. Small victories are better than none, and if waving the back payments gets him to sign it, then do that. If you show him the papers stating not only does he owe you 200 a month, but also all the back payments, he'll see it is being something unattainable and will simply mope over the impossibility of it (perceived anyway), and probably won't sign it. In contrast, if you just make it 200/month, and allow him a few months where he can 'push it off' into back payments, in which he receives shortened but not eliminated visitation time, he is more likely to sign, and it significantly increases the odds he will get himself a job, or at least try to, and will find a way to get his shit together.

[TTAZ]

I won't know until I try and I am willing to write in that the contractual obligations don't kick in until he obtains employment. This will also cover his ass in regards to visitation because I'd like it to be written in such a way as to basically mean no money ffrom him = no visitation. If I renege on visitation then no visitation from Nelson (due to me) = no money.

Again I hope this makes sense. I honestly do believe he will pay back payments. In 2006 when he was between jobs he ended up owing his ex-wife something like $1500 in back payments and even though they had no contract or court order, he did pay her back as soon as he could. However, I've obviously been wrong regarding this man before, so I want the contract in place for ass coverage.

[Shards]

It sounds like you are trying to make a good thing happen properly.

I would recommend giving him a schedule in which time he needs to obtain employment, as opposed to letting him use unemployment as a never-breaking shield.

[Eric the Grey]

My only suggestion, beyond the expensive and time-consuming one of consulting a lawyer, would be to double, triple and quadruple check whatever you write and make certain there is no wiggle room.

IMO, an agreement of this nature does not need to be all legalese to be effective. Plain, straight language that is clear enough for anyone to understand should suffice, but if a Lawyer gets hold of it, they will probably find loopholes you didn't see. Be very careful. IMO (again) the best way to do it is to be simple and clear.

You might see if you can find someone to read it over. Gamers may work best (most of the ones I know are wonderful at rules-lawyering) If you have a law school nearby, you may even be able to convince someone near enough to graduating to look it over for free.



Eric the Grey

[Shards]

Well, how else can we power-game if we don't rules-lawyer? We'd have to become the hated Munchkin, and even power-gamers have standards.

[Sandman]

TTAZ, the only way that would be enforceable is if provision if you skip town or if you violate your portion of the visitation agreement (like you just wrote about), now bear in mind that I am not a lawyer, but I have taken two Business Law courses, in which the first one was all about contract law.

[TTAZ]

I'm sorry I'm not getting it. It IS enforcable as long as it is stipulated that if I break faith he doesn't have to pay? Or are you saying that even if this stipulation is in there and I had a lawyer check this over and there were no loopholes, etc. it is not enforcable?

I'm hoping there won't be a need to enforce anything, but if there is then I'll have a leg to stand on in court regarding the back payments. I'm owed as of May 15th $3,800 and I don't want to kiss that goodbye. I didn't have a great paying job prior to the economy tanking, and I haven't had any work since January. That $200 a month would go very far in keeping bills current, especially the electricity what with Tucson already over 100 degrees. During this whole fandango he has been able to see his son every day for at least an hour except for a handful of days due to illness. I have been more than fair in allowing him access to Nelson and I believe I and my son are entitled to that money. Just because I was a trusting fool doesn't mean my son should get screwed out of almost 4 grand. I'm trying to be as civil and fair as possible about it, but I also want it to be admissable in court should it get that far.

Also if anybody out there is thinking I'm doing this now because I'm pissed about the matchmaker profile, you're absolutely right. The act of actively looking for someone to spend his time and money on shows me his priorites are skewed and that his pleasure outweighs his responsibilities. I want something in my posession to keep the playing field level.

Am I being unreasonable?

[persephone]

TTAZ -- check your PM. I'm working on it.

[friendofjimmyk]

* that there was an agreement between myself and my son's father for $200 a month child support

*due to unemployment he has not made a payment since August 2007

*that upon getting viable employment he owes me full back child support as well as continuing monthly payments of $200, and a timeline for completion of backpayment

*a visitation agreement

*a proviso that I am under no obligation to facilitate visitation while support is not paid

*if these terms are not met (if he skips town, if I don't receive back payments) I can sue the living daylights out of him

Unless you had something in writing, any verbal agreement between you and your ex is null and void in the eyes of the court. That would apply to "back" child support.

I have read a few of your posts now and I will be honest in my responses - you may not like the way AZ handles child support cases...but I believe the only way you can make anything legally binding is going through the courts somehow...maybe not with lawyers...but a mediator who can draw up a legal contract between you and your ex. However, you will not get much if he is unemployed. If he is receiving unemployment, you will get some of what he is getting. When he gets employed again, then they'd have to reconfigure the amount of support you receive.

if he is unemployed...you are trying to get blood out of a stone. He doesn't have the $200 a month for this month and he won't pay back child support if he doesn't have to. Furthermore, if there is no legal contract regarding visitation...you have every right to cut off visitation at any time you wish at this moment...you don't need a courts permission to cut it off. Do you think he'll come after you for visitation? For child support?

You'll have to do what you don't want to do...you'll have to go the legal route. Ask yourself what is the real reason you won't? Is it because you don't want AZ to handle it or are you afraid they won't handle it the way you want them to handle it?

[Sandman]

It IS enforcable as long as it is stipulated that if I break faith he doesn't have to pay?

Correct... if you didn't have anything in there about if you violated it, the courts would throw it out.

Or are you saying that even if this stipulation is in there and I had a lawyer check this over and there were no loopholes, etc. it is not enforcable?

I would still have a lawyer look over it. Since you already have it drawn up, it shouldn't be expensive. Just to make sure that there are no loopholes or you are missing anything that might come up.