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**JoitheArtist** · 07-13-2009, 02:48 AM

Sorry, no advice, just sympathy!

In my work, I've gotten to see a lot of middle-aged and older people, and have come to the conclusion that some people simpler prefer to be angry and unhappy, and there's nothing that can be done about it. It's usually a choice that's made fairly early on in life (probably by mid-thirties); after decades of finding some problem with everything, you become incapable of being content with anything. (in fact, it was working the phones at my job, and listening to my own parents complain about everything that made me begin to watch how often I complain and try to break myself of the habit)

I really hope things get better soon!

**freeatlast** · 07-13-2009, 03:45 AM

Some of that sounds alot like my grandma. She's 94 years old and extremely bitter because my grandpa died 32 years ago. She has outlived almost all of her friends as well. This is the woman who sold her house a few months ago and we thought that she had been convinced to move to a really nice assisted living facility about 3 minutes from my mom. Well, after she told my mom and my uncle that she would go to assisted living, she made an offer and had it accepted on a condo. She waited until she was under contract before telling her kids. This is the same woman who thought that all of these kids were hanging out in her house at night. She would talk about them as if they were real. She left them behind at the house when she moved, but now she says that the former owners of her condo (who are both dead) are living there, hogging the shower, using up all of the hot water and eating her food.

But with all of this craziness, when my dad died she went with my mom to identify him and has been there (acting perfectly normal and lucid) for my mom. I think that knowing she is needed has helped her with reality.

**protege** · 07-13-2009, 04:09 AM

Ugh. My mother's going through that crap now. Grandma is 92, and is having issues.

1. She too, is pissed that she's no longer allowed to drive. Before she moved into the assisted-living place, she had a car, and lived just outside of town. Not long before she moved, she had an accident. Actually, she fell in a parking lot, and attempted to drive to the hospital...she hit a few parked cars because she had blood in her eyes. Nobody got hurt, but her car was damaged, and she had to give up driving. That didn't go over well.

2. She's pissed, because she's no longer independent. Keep in mind that this is the woman, who, after a serious accident in 1994, managed to walk again. She'd not only always done everything for herself, but taken care of just about everyone--friends and family alike. Now she's upset she can't do that, and gets pissed when we say we're 'returning the favor.'

3. It's not that she hates her assisted living place, but she really doesn't want to be there. She's asked more than once to "go home." Never mind that her house had been sold in '07, and most of her belongings divided up among family.

4. Some days, she can't understand why Grandpa doesn't "come home." Uh, he's been dead just over 20 years. But, I can't tell her that, nor am I going to lie to her. Instead, I simply tell her that he's out "having coffee with the boys" and that she'll see him soon.

5. Her mind really is shot. She'll ask the same 3 questions over and over. She can remember things from years ago--Grandpa, the farm, my MG, kitties, etc. but can't remember things from 5 minutes ago

But, she does know that her son and other daughter, never come home to visit. That's why my mother is pissed about things sometimes--both my aunt and uncle don't work. Aunt has never worked, and my uncle is retired. Neither one wants any responsibility for this, but if there's money involved...

**MaggieTheCat** · 07-13-2009, 04:42 AM

Yeah, some of these things are familiar, my grandparents do as well.

My grandfather seems to have selective hearing and selective memory. We're not sure if he really does have a memory problem (he remembers things from 50 years ago like they happened yesterday, but when my mom calls him out on a nasty comment he made to her 4 hours prior, he'll claim complete amnesia to the event) or if he's just faking because he's a jerk. He's never been diagnosed with memory problems or Alzheimer's and he never seems to have memory problems when he goes to the dr.

Also, my dad has two siblings, a brother and a sister, who both live in Montana. I mentioned in my first post that my aunt went down to AZ for a short time to help my grandparents out, so she at least has done something, but my uncle hasn't done anything and neither my aunt or uncle have done anything or offered to help at all since my parents moved them back to WI. My parents have told them everything that my grandparents say and do, and my aunt/uncle have agreed that it's terrible, my parents are going through so much, my grandparents are a pain, etc. But what can my aunt/uncle do, being in Montana, you ask? Well, my parents have asked, at the very least, if my aunt/uncle could come to WI or bring my grandparents to MT for a week or two so my parents can have a break. Even though my aunt/uncle agree that the situation is bad...when my parents bring these things up, my aunt/uncle immediately have an excuse as to why they can't help at all.

And the great part about it is, is that my grandparents are always praising my aunt/uncle about what great children they are, how stressful their lives are, how hard they work at what they do, etc. etc. etc. And never a single word to my parents, in thanks or anything, about what my parents are doing for them.

On one hand, I think, "Well, at least my parents aren't alone and there are other people out there like this..." but on the other hand, that makes me really sad to think there are others going through the same thing my parents are.

**protege** · 07-13-2009, 04:54 AM

Quoth MaggieTheCat View Post

Even though my aunt/uncle agree that the situation is bad...when my parents bring these things up, my aunt/uncle immediately have an excuse as to why they can't help at all.

In my case, both my uncle and aunt are lazy. They claim that it's "too far to drive." But, that's bullshit. They simply don't want to deal with it. My uncle could easily come down for a weekend. If he does visit, he drives the 3-4 hours from State College, has lunch with Grandma...and then immediately drives home. My aunt, on the other hand, married a doctor. Yet, she never comes home... because "it's too expensive" to fly. So, my mother has to deal with all of it.

And the great part about it is, is that my grandparents are always praising my aunt/uncle about what great children they are, how stressful their lives are, how hard they work at what they do, etc. etc. etc.

Grandma doesn't talk about the rest of the family. In fact, she usually forgets about them. But, she does appreciate the attention that my immediate family shows her. We are *always* over there, making sure she's OK. The past few years have been very hard on her. She's had at least one stroke (which is probably why her mind is failing), her vision has deteriorated, she's no longer independent, etc.

On one hand, I think, "Well, at least my parents aren't alone and there are other people out there like this..." but on the other hand, that makes me really sad to think there are others going through the same thing my parents are.

It's especially sad for me. Out of all of the grandkids, as the oldest, I'm probably the closest to her. Growing up, I was always at her house for one reason or another. It's truly sad watching all of this shit unfold, and even sadder because there's nothing I can do about it. It's not like when I have a problem with the MG. With that, I can usually fix it. Not so with Grandma--Mom and I are helpless in that regard

**AdminAssistant** · 07-13-2009, 05:49 AM

My grandmother was like that. Once she could no longer care for herself....she declined really quickly.

Please please please, those with potentially warring families, get your loved one to write out a will. It will make the arrangements after so much easier, especially when a random great-nephew twice removed tries to say, "Well, she would want me to have this TV". Well, no, she didn't. So there. One of my aunts was very upset that the lion's share of Grandma's belongings went to my Dad (in reality, to my sister and myself). Simple, Dad took care of her. Also, I was the youngest grandchild, the only one still single, and the one who spent many Friday afternoons cleaning her house and taking her on errands. She wanted me to have her furniture, washer/dryer...practical things that I would need. When aunt went to fuss about how her grandkids could use it, Dad just handed her the will and said, "Tough".

**protege** · 07-13-2009, 01:12 PM

My grandmother has a will. However, she also knew that her kids (namely my aunt and uncle) would probably fight over things. That's why she made my mother get a power of attorney. She's closest, and has been handling all the business decisions anyway, so why not? Needless to say, aunt and uncle were a bit pissed about that. But, I think Grandma made the right decision--I don't trust my uncle as far as I can throw him. Greedy bastard, he is. Not that he'd actually be able to get any of her money--when the house was sold, I told my mother to put it into a trust...for the sole purpose of my grandmother's long-term care.

**RecoveringKinkoid** · 07-13-2009, 04:27 PM

You aren't describing anything unusual, sadly. We have a lot of old folks in our family, and what you describe sounds like standard operating procedure.

It really sucks. But try to keep in mind it's not personal. If your grandparents WERE in their right mind, they'd probably be mortified at their own behavior.

It's hard. It's REALLY hard, actually, and I'm sorry. Just be aware that you are not alone in this, this happens to a huge number of families.

My own nonna is impossible. We had to hire full time nurse for her. She is argumentative, confused, and incredibly picky about everything. Last week, I went over there and for the first time, she didn't know who I was. That was really tough. I had to remind myself that maybe she didn't remember who I was, but I remembered who she was, and I remember who she really is under all this horror.

Try to remember who they really are, and don't judge them by who they seem to be now that their minds are not working properly.

:hugs:

**Giggle Goose** · 07-14-2009, 02:08 AM

I don't have much experience with these issues personally, but I do know they are quite common. I used to temp as a receptionist at my county's department of aging and disabilities, and they dealt with stuff like this all the time. They were case managers, and all of them were social workers and RNs that helped seniors to live independently. Many of their clients had family members that were in the same boat your parents are in: they cared deeply for their eldery parents, but they had reached a point of exhaustion and helplessness.

I'm not saying that your family should apply for some kind of public assistance for your grandparents, because they certainly aren't broke. But you might be able to use public resources to find a counselor for your parents; one who specializes in geriatric issues. Aging takes a toll not only on the elderly, but also those that care for them. A counselor might help them with the guilt they are feeling, and can also explain to them exactly what your grandparents are going through and how it isn't their fault.

Sorry, I hate to sound like someone who automatically says 'go to counseling,' but I'm actually more concerned with your parents and their burden. They seem to do a LOT more than some of the family members of the clients I dealt with, and I think they deserve some relief from the guilty feelings. Whatever happens, I wish you all the best of luck.

**wagegoth** · 07-14-2009, 07:29 AM

<explanatory hijack> Over ten years ago, my evil (that's a story for another time) stepgrandmother finally died. It's amazing she died of natural causes, because the last year of her life she seemed to go out of her way to make everyone homicidal.

Her first husband had died very young, leaving her during WWII with six children and no money. She raised them under conditions that were sometimes horrible. My stepdad told me that at one point they lived in what had been a chicken coop. Being poor for so long seemed to affect her. She was always miserly, but spent money on herself only. When her second husband died, he had a ring with four diamonds in it; she told her sons that she would have the diamonds separated and set into four rings, one for each son. About a year later, she was going around showing off HER new ring, with the diamonds set in it.

She hoarded food. Even though she was living alone, she had two freezers in the garage that she regularly stuffed full of food from Costco. Almost all of it was inedible from sitting in the freezer for years. She had shelves and shelves of canned food. She was not a Mormon or Freeper.

In her late 80s, she began having pain in her hip. She had been very heavy at one time, but had lost the weight. However, the lingering effects and her age had done the damage. She wanted a hip replacement. Her doctor recommended physical therapy. She demanded a hip replacement. Her doctor told her that physical therapy would help the pain, and that if she had her hip replaced she would still have to have PT. She kept complaining. He gave up and turned her over to the surgeon. She ended up permanently in a wheelchair because she would not do PT. She then expected my parents, who were in their 60s then, to come down and care for her full time. She made no attempt to help herself. My dad had to lift her in and out of the wheelchair all day long. My long-suffering dad said, "I think my mother is the most selfish person in the world." (We all quietly thought, "Duh.")

Finally, my dad put his foot down, and with her doctor's help, got her moved into a facility, and put her house up for sale. Unfortunately, the formerly nice neighborhood she had lived in was descending into a meth cesspool. They finally sold her house, paid off her minimal debt, and covered her expenses at the facility. It may sound horrible, but she died just a few months later, to everyone's relief.

</hijack>

So, Maggie, what your parents are suffering is an unfortunately common problem. Your thought that they should take a vacation is good, but all it will be is a vacation. They're going to come back to exactly the same issues as before.

Your grandparents probably are paranoid about money, possibly having grown up with little and now worried there will not be enough. It doesn't matter how much is in the bank, it will NEVER be enough. It's probably even worse with all the financial failures lately.

They're watching their world shrink down to a small apartment from the big, wide world. They're not adjusting well. It's never easy, and they're obviously handling it poorly. Your grandfather's behavior is probably putting additional stress on your grandmother, which causes her to put more stress on your parents. She can't escape him, and he can't escape his situation.

What can they do? Set boundaries and keep them. They have to make clear to your grandparents what your parents can and cannot do. If your grandparents want more help, then your parents can arrange to get someone else in addition to Andrea, but they will have to make clear that your grandparents will have to pay for it.

Your parents can give your grandparents a simple schedule that explains when your parents are available and when they're not. They have lives and commitments, and that must be made clear.

They have to make it clear to your grandparents that if they cannot adjust to their current situation, then they will have to move to an assisted living facility. These are their ONLY two options. Your grandparents may be angling to move in with your parents. This would be an impossible situation for your parents.

Then, someone needs to notify your great-aunt about your grandfather's plan. If he finds out, make it clear that his behavior is completely unacceptable and no one is willing to tolerate it.

It's pretty much tough love.

**MaggieTheCat** · 07-14-2009, 01:18 PM

Giggle Goose: I had never thought of counseling, but it does make sense now that you bring it up. I will try to bring it up to my parents sometime, although they sort of have a negative mind-set about counseling. Still, they are basically using me and my brother as counselors lately (venting to us about everything that's happening) and while we don't mind listening and being sounding boards, there's not much else we CAN do.

Wagegoth: Your great-step-mother sounds a lot like my grandparents in a lot of respects. They went through the war and the depression too, so yeah, that's where the money issues come from. As far as changing the situation, it sounds like my parents are trying to do so; they keep saying that they're "pulling their horns in" and not going to get so involved in my grandparents' every day, day-to-day life. At one point, my dad had a schedule set up where he would go over to their apartment once a week to give them their weekly medicine (they are now able to take it on their own, as long as my dad divides it up properly for them) and check on them for anything else they might need. But that "once a week" turned into multiple times a week, especially when my parents were trying to take my grandparents out to dinner occasionally or do other social things. My parents are now going back to the once a week routine and not going to take them out to dinner anymore. I will also tell them about your suggestion of giving my grandparents a schedule as to when they are available and such. I just hope they stick to this plan; like I said, my mom is really compassionate, sometimes too much so, and even when my brother and I warn her not to get too emotional or do too much, she still does, and bam...she gets burned. Again.

Everyone: Thanks for the words of support. It's been really nice to hear from everyone. I'm gonna tell my 'rents about some of the things you guys have said and that they're not alone (sadly.)

**protege** · 07-14-2009, 02:17 PM

Thought I'd mention this too...

Dad's side of the family is pretty, well, fucked up. His parents never really paid much attention to us over the years. Never mind that they only had 3 grandchildren. They'd only call if either something broke, or someone died. Very little contact, in other words. Because of that, there's plenty of resentment--my father can't figure out why my brothers can't stand his mother, and why my own mother...tends to make snide comments about his family

(I still go over there, simply because I consider it bad form to cut her off completely.

When my grandfather fell ill in 2001, both my father and my aunt...both seemed to pretend that nothing was happening. Grandpa's mind started failing about the year before--he was forgetting where he'd put things, and then started forgetting things like names, dates, and would occasionally get lost. By then, he'd reached the point of no return. He'd already had a stroke, and was having difficulty taking care of himself. Even walking from his bedroom to his favorite recliner was impossible. Grandma couldn't take care of him--he was rather...large, and made the difficult decision to put him in a nursing home.

Already weakened by the stroke, he soon developed bladder cancer...which literally overran his body. That's not to say that he was upset by any means. He still told jokes, and tried not to let the pain get to him. He'd accepted his fate, and was trying to make the best of it.

One of the last memories I have of him...is that stupid wooden (and cow-shaped) cutting board Grandma had. For one reason or another, it got broken. Not sure if it was dropped, or it got damaged in shipping. Rather than let it sit around broken, I took it home and repaired it.

About a month after I'd returned it, Grandpa was telling everyone that he'd fixed it...even though Grandma was saying that he hadn't. I simply told her to knock it off--we both knew who did it, but if it made a dying old man happy, who was I to piss on his parade? Sadly, he died a few months later

It still bugs me that very few relatives even go see my grandparents--my brothers couldn't stand them, my mother hated them, and even now...I'm over there more than my father. Guess that's why I'm seen as the damn "Golden Boy" by most of the family

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Major grandparental issues (very long)

Major grandparental issues (very long)

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