HOA Help!

[LewisLegion]

Ok, so as some of you know, I just bought a new house. In the process of buying it I was assured no less than three times by the listing agent/seller's agent that there was NO HOA. I specifically wanted a house with no HOA (I loathe HOAs and since we plan on putting up solar I didn't want to tangle with one that decided to be obstinant).

My closing was on the 1st. We've been spending this week remodeling the upstairs pending my actual move-in date of the 20th.

Now, this house had a handicapped ramp on the front going from the door to the sidewalk. I thought it was kind of ugly. My new neighbor came out and asked if we were going to keep it or take it off. I told her we'd probably keep it long enough to move furniture in, then remove it.

When I came to get my keys I noticed the ramp had been removed. I thought that was kind of puzzling but...whatever.

Yesterday, my new neighbor caught my stepdad and me as we were loading supplies in through the garage. We were talking and I mentioned the handicap ramp being gone and asked if she knew who took it. She told me the HOA had come and taken it off.

I was FLOORED. I told her I wasn't informed there was an HOA...in fact, I was specifically told there wasn't. She told me 'oh, yes, there is' and said they weren't as bad as some and the dues were only 25 a month. I told her I hadn't signed anything and didn't want to be part of an HOA and she said they'd 'come around and make you sign'.

I am NOT happy. I do not want to be part of an HOA. I told her I wanted to fence in part of my front yard and she said that they would probably not have a problem with that but I would have to sign something first, and she made a joke 'you have to sign something if you want to change your front door color, too'.

Which perfectly illustrates why I loathe HOAs...but that's part of Fratching territory.

Anyway, I just went through my paperwork and I have, in fact, signed nothing regarding any HOA. I do NOT want to be part of the HOA. Does anyone know if I legally can say 'I'm not signing' when the HOA comes around? I was not told of the HOA, I do not want to be part of the HOA, the house is mine and unless I'll end up going to jail or losing my house or something, I do NOT want to sign up for it.

[draggar]

Get a real estate attorney and go after your real estate agent AND the seller.

As for the ramp - go after them about it, that's called STEALING.

[Pedersen]

This is an area where I have zero experience, so am a very bad choice to follow the advice on. Draggar is right: Get an attorney. Now.

I'd be extremely surprised if they could make you sign up. Unless your attorney advises you otherwise (or a judge orders you to do so), sign nothing.

When they try to strongarm you, inform them that you have no intention of signing. And since they are on your property, would they please leave before you have to call the police and have them arrested for trespassing?

And to reinforce what Draggar said: Attorney. And go after the real estate agent and the seller.

Why are you still reading? Why aren't you on the phone getting an attorney?

[taxguykarl]

Pedersen and Draggar are right about this. You have a slam-dunk. All but a few states have a disclosure law and the existance of an HOA is bound to be covered here. As for the HOA, file criminal and civil charges. Very few states allow HOA's to enter property (tresspassing), let alone remove a ramp (vandalism & theft). No state makes them immune to those crimes. That action might also violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.

[Sliceanddice]

i cant add anything that hasnt already been said but also be prepared to call 911 right away, because most of the times people wont take no for an answer.

on a personal note, i would so sue too

[RecoveringKinkoid]

And I'd press charges for theft.

[Broomjockey]

I'd say there's some solid advice in here. Without a lawyer, the whole HOA thing could get messy quickly.

[LewisLegion]

I can't really afford an attorney. I just spent my entire savings on this house. I'm not angry at my real estate agent...she asked them on my behalf several times and each time they told her there was no HOA. The HOA was no where in the paperwork she was given or that I was given. I don't blame her at all. The selling agent, on the other hand, and the bank who I bought the house from...that's another thing.

As for the theft I don't really know that I have a leg to stand on. The ramp was removed before the house was closed into my name...so it wasn't yet my property. I'll have to look more into that. Edited to clarify: The ramp was there when I did my inspection but when I went to actually get the keys from the house the day before the house was closed, the ramp was gone. So it was removed before the house was legally mine, if that makes more sense.

I've been reading up as much as I can on this this morning and it seems as long as its a legal CC&R HOA I haven't really got a leg to stand on. It's up to the seller (the bank in this case) to disclose the HOA and the fact that they didn't is on their heads but doesn't negate the HOA itself...I still have to sign into it. I can apparently sue the bank for lack of disclosure but as far as the rest it comes down to that whole 'ignorance of the law does not negate the law' thing. Just because I was unaware of the HOA does not mean that I can 'opt out'.

I do plan on going to an HOA meeting and reading the bylaws before I sign anything. I want to make sure that it is in fact a legitimate registered HOA and not just a bunch of residents who decided to form their own amateur 'ad hoc' HOA. I hear that happens on occassion too and people will sign into it because they don't know better.

[Pedersen]

Actually, you might still be able to tell them to back off.

You did due diligence. You asked, repeatedly, if this home was under an HOA. You checked the paperwork. Now, somewhere along the way, someone is attempting to attach a condition of sale after the sale is made. This is not legal, at least not here in the USA (and, quite likely, anywhere else in the world).

If the new conditions come to light after the sale, and you are required to abide by them, you would be able to get out of the sale entirely, recovering your losses and (quite likely) getting punitive damages. In other words, all the money you've spent could be recovered.

You might not have money to spend, but failure to get an attorney could cost you significantly more than getting one would. Do not just cave in on this. If you do, you will regret it.

Many attorneys (not all) will offer a free initial consult to determine if you even have a case. Call around, find one, and get in there. Do not sign any papers without either advice of an attorney or orders of a judge. And keep in mind that you may very well be able to completely recover all costs, including court costs, mortgage costs, and any payments, if you should choose to revert the sale.

Now, the bad thing: Failure to act on that advice in a timely fashion could screw you out of your legal rights. You know (now) that something can possibly be done. If a lawyer can show later (in court) that you failed to act in a timely fashion on this issue, then that lawyer will be able to get your case thrown out if you decide to pursue it later.

Please don't abandon this with "I don't have a choice." There's no point getting screwed over on this.

[draggar]

I can't really afford an attorney. I just spent my entire savings on this house. I'm not angry at my real estate agent...she asked them on my behalf several times and each time they told her there was no HOA. The HOA was no where in the paperwork she was given or that I was given. I don't blame her at all. The selling agent, on the other hand, and the bank who I bought the house from...that's another thing.

First, and most importantly, find a REAL ESTATE ATTORNEY. Not some general attorney. If you needed open heart surgery would you see a general practitioner or a heart surgeon (and don't start with the whole insurance thing - you know what I mean). Most good ones will give at least a free consultation.

If you're in south Florida or NJ, shoot me a PM, I know a good one in each of those locations.

As for the theft I don't really know that I have a leg to stand on. The ramp was removed before the house was closed into my name...so it wasn't yet my property. I'll have to look more into that. Edited to clarify: The ramp was there when I did my inspection but when I went to actually get the keys from the house the day before the house was closed, the ramp was gone. So it was removed before the house was legally mine, if that makes more sense.

OK, I was under the impression that it was there when you moved in. For all you know the previous owner could have taken it with them.

I've been reading up as much as I can on this this morning and it seems as long as its a legal CC&R HOA I haven't really got a leg to stand on. It's up to the seller (the bank in this case) to disclose the HOA and the fact that they didn't is on their heads but doesn't negate the HOA itself...I still have to sign into it. I can apparently sue the bank for lack of disclosure but as far as the rest it comes down to that whole 'ignorance of the law does not negate the law' thing. Just because I was unaware of the HOA does not mean that I can 'opt out'.

The seller AND their real estate agent mis-represented the property. This now puts you out all fees and assessments they hand down to you - I'm sure you can at least sue them for the association fees. Do some research, too, make sure there are no liens against the association - THESE WILL NOT SHOW UP IN A TITLE SEARCH - trust me, I know. IF there are any, then you have one hell of a case against the previous owner.

I do plan on going to an HOA meeting and reading the bylaws before I sign anything. I want to make sure that it is in fact a legitimate registered HOA and not just a bunch of residents who decided to form their own amateur 'ad hoc' HOA. I hear that happens on occassion too and people will sign into it because they don't know better.

Most states also have a government department that oversees HOAs and such - get in contact with them ASAP also over this.

You might not have money to spend, but failure to get an attorney could cost you significantly more than getting one would. Do not just cave in on this. If you do, you will regret it.

QFT *10,000.

Did you have an attorney represent you during the sale? Hopefully you did but I fully agree, NOT getting an attorney now, even if it is a free consultation, can get you screwed big time in the near future. We delayed and got stuck with a special assessment that was assessed before we even looked at the property.

Now, the bad thing: Failure to act on that advice in a timely fashion could screw you out of your legal rights. You know (now) that something can possibly be done. If a lawyer can show later (in court) that you failed to act in a timely fashion on this issue, then that lawyer will be able to get your case thrown out if you decide to pursue it later.

Please don't abandon this with "I don't have a choice." There's no point getting screwed over on this.

I agree - you were screwed over with this. The seller did not disclose, no HE FLAT OUT LIED, over this information which should be disclosed since it includes EXTRA expenses on your part.

[Caveat Emptor]

When I bought my condo a few months back, there were several documents -HOA disclosure with monthly payable fee, HOA liability insurance, HOA bylaws, HOA rules - included and sent by my Realtor. I am not a lawyer, but it seems coomon sense that by not disclosing anything that a serious fraud was committed. Contact the Legal Aid Society or similar for help.

[Millahtyme1983]

There is a difference between not disclosing and lying, from what I read you had asked them if there was an HOA and you were told no there wasn't. Not disclosing it would be you not asking and them not bothering to tell you. Besides that when I bought my condo there were a ton of forms I had to sign that had to do with the HOA alone, and my buying the place was conditional on me reading and agreeing to the CC&R's (bylaws). I am not a lawyer but if you can prove that you asked if there was an HOA and that they told you there wasn't then you have an open and shut case. In fact you not having signed any documents involving the HOA could be proof enough (again I am not a lawyer ). But as far as the house goes as you said yourself, as long as you own it you are part of the HOA whether you like it or not.

[Seshat]

Now, somewhere along the way, someone is attempting to attach a condition of sale after the sale is made. This is not legal, at least not here in the USA (and, quite likely, anywhere else in the world).

I totally agree with Pedersen.

Actually, I agree with everything he said in that comment - but I am most firmly in agreement with this part here.

Also, you almost certainly -had- the services of a real estate attorney in the process of doing the paperwork for the house. Part of that attorney's job involves checking for and divulging to you such things as HOA existence.

Call your real estate agent. Have them call the person who did up the paperwork - or have them give you the name of that person. Check with them. It's quite likely they'll say 'what? Hell no! I checked for that, and it doesn't have one! Tell them to get stuffed.' (If so, get them to give you something official and/or advice on what to do if someone comes up and tries to be all HOA at you.)

Also ask them if they are an attorney representing the -seller-, or an attorney representing -you-. If they're the former, get your estate agent to recommend another attorney, who will give you the initial consultation for free (as many have said).

But I agree - you cannot afford NOT to get legal advice on this. And if the house has been misrepresented, you should be able to reverse the sale AND get all fees refunded because of that misrepresentation.

But only if you act with all due promptness NOW.

And don't sign ANYTHING without legal advice.

[Stormraven]

To add to what everyone else is saying. Since you trust that your Real Estate Agent was taken in as much as you, bring her in on the issue. Let her know that the Seller and/or his agent LIED.

She may want to help fight, and if she does, will be able to bring some serious leverage to the issue, depending on her affiliations.

[Caveat Emptor]

Call your real estate agent. Have them call the person who did up the paperwork - or have them give you the name of that person. Check with them. It's quite likely they'll say 'what? Hell no! I checked for that, and it doesn't have one! Tell them to get stuffed.' (If so, get them to give you something official and/or advice on what to do if someone comes up and tries to be all HOA at you.)

Also ask them if they are an attorney representing the -seller-, or an attorney representing -you-. If they're the former, get your estate agent to recommend another attorney, who will give you the initial consultation for free (as many have said).

I forgot about the lawyer at the closing. If they were aware of the HOA and failed to bring it up, I'm fairly sure that's grounds for serious censure and possible disbarment.