Anyone own a KB Home?

[MaggieTheCat]

My husband and I attended a home buying seminar given by KB Homes today. It was very informative and I liked the rep we talked to. We spent about 2 hours talking to him, asking questions and touring different model homes of floor plans that they build. We like the idea of going with them since we would have a new home and they build to order so we can customize a lot of it. However, a friend of ours said that they have heard negative things about KB Homes.

So, does anyone have any experience with a KB Home?

Edit to add: I talked to my parents about it a little bit and they seem to be under the impression that we should customize the house with as much extra stuff that we can, even if we don't want/need it (for example, one of the big additions KB can do is add a fireplace to their homes. We live in central Texas so we would hardly ever use a fireplace. But my parents said we should get it anyway because it would add to the resell value.) They said, "You shouldn't buy a home for yourselves, you should buy it for the resell value." I disagree because we want to buy a home to live in, not turn around and resell in a few years. Thoughts?

[Sandman]

Well take a look at it this way... the weather this year you would need a fireplace in TX.. plus.. you could always get it so it's a gas conversion fireplace for those romatic interludes you and your hubby would want.

[lupo pazzesco]

Don't know who my mom went with when she and stepdad bought a house recently, but they have a fireplace.

Sure, it doesnt' get a lot of use, per se, since they live in El Paso, (desert climate FTW!!), but it looks nice, it's a nice amenity, and some nights when it doesn drop down and get pretty cold, it's nice to switch the fireplace on and play games while the doggy roasts himself in front of the grate.

They got the fireplace because they wanted it and because they thought it was nifty and at no extra cost. Same reason they got other extras that cost extra because they wanted it, resell value be damned.

[Evil Queen]

I remember them; I helped Dad remodel one or two back in NC. Second worst homes ever; first being homes built by a company called Schmidt.

Poorly built, bad insulation (if any), shoddy electrical system. No matter how much you pay them, it seems, they always go with the cheapest materials and the cheapest labour. That's not always the way to go. There show houses are always nicer then the other products (half the time not even built by their company).

Honestly, if you guys are going to spend the money for a custom built home, you should go with someone else.

And don't listen to your parents. Why live in a house you don't like to sell it for a couple extra grand in 10-20 years? You are the ones who have to live with it; not them. Heck, my parents had a fire place in the house in SC. We used it ONCE. To make roasted marshmallows on a rainy day. Totally not worth the hassle.

That and it makes your home owners insurance go up (at least in my state it does, same with a swimming pool and a trampoline).

[csquared]

Even though KB is a national home builder, remember, the house is built locally. Just like a chain restaurant, you may like one location but not another. You need to research the KB builder local to you for quality. Understand how the franchise is set up. You may see good reviews in one town, but not a neighboring town. Could be different crews. You don't want the wrong one.

Check out KB's financials. You don't want KB going belly up on you. Just because they are a big nation wide does not mean that they are more stable than a small local. And remember, the cost of the house will include the cost of maintaining the fancy sales staff that gave you the sales pitch.

"You shouldn't buy a home for yourselves, you should buy it for the resell value."

I have better advise. Don't take wooden nickels. Unless they are rare collectables.

If you hate your house, you will want to sell it. In this market, you won't get your money back. Buy what you want. Get the options you want first. Then, if they do not prevent you from doing things you want, get the add-ons.

I like fireplaces. Given two identical houses, except one has a fireplace, I would choose the fireplace. But I wouldn't pay that much for it. Not having a fireplace would not be a deal breaker. I do not see the fireplace as an investment.

If you would rather have a full wall, hardwood bookcase on that wall, then skip the fireplace.

Don't let the small upgrades push you into a price you have trouble affording. And as Evil Queen pointed out, don't forget the add-on costs like insurance and maintenance.

Personal advise:
In this market, I would not buy custom built or pre-built new. I would buy a pre-owned. You will probably be able to get more for your money.

[MaggieTheCat]

Thank you all for the advice and input. I honestly don't see us using a fireplace, unless a home comes with one. The KB Homes we are looking at do not come with one by default and it's a several thousand dollar upgrade to get one. We just don't see that as a good investment. We have a fireplace in our current apartment and we've never even used it.

EQ, thanks for the first-hand experience with KB Homes. We got some info today at the seminar that contradicts some of what you were saying so I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain a bit for you knowledge.

Poorly built, bad insulation (if any), shoddy electrical system.

The guys at the seminar said that all of the KB Homes are Energy Star certified. According to the rep, this doesn't just mean that they have Energy Star appliances; it means that the home itself must meet certain guidelines for insulation. I believe he said that to pass the cert, the home cannot lose more than 6% air. All of the homes are tested after they are built but before the owner closes, so this is doesn't seem to be just a general "most of our homes meet the specs but some might not." Every home has to pass for them to keep their Energy Star cert. Can homes become less insulated over time?

There show houses are always nicer then the other products (half the time not even built by their company).

We met the guy who heads up all the construction of the homes in the area that we would buy, if we go with them. We didn't meet his team but I assumed he would work with the same guys mostly. Is that a bad assumption to make?

Honestly, if you guys are going to spend the money for a custom built home, you should go with someone else.

Do you have any suggestions? Pultee Homes has the best reviews in our city (KB being the second best), but they also only build outside the city, and we are trying to stay relatively close to my husband's work. One of the reasons we liked the KB Homes site that we visited was because it's only a 10 minute drive to where he works; getting a Pultee Home would result in more like a 45-60 minute drive one way at least.

[AdminAssistant]

I don't know anything about this particular company, but if you 1) already own land and 2) are going to build a home, I would absolutely go with a pre-fab or custom-ordered home. (My sis is building right now, such a pain!)

Actually, turning on a fireplace makes the rest of the house colder. That combined with the soot and the cleaning and everything...I wouldn't want a fireplace. But that's me.

[MaggieTheCat]

We don't own any land ourselves. We actually just started considering buying. We feel like we have enough money saved up now to put down a good down payment. We heard about this seminar from a friend of ours so this is basically the first step we've taken, aside from doing a little research of our own online last weekend.

Something else to add that I forgot to mention in my last post: During the building of all the homes, KB hires a 3rd party inspector three times to come out and check the place out. If the inspections come back with anything negative, they fix it before we close on it. They said that we can hire an inspector ourselves to do the same thing, however, they already hire a 3rd party inspector and they pay for those inspections, so I assume that's a good sign that they're at least trying to build a decent home.

[Sliceanddice]

in arizona KB is pretty good. 120 summer = equel pretty good houses.

personally i would still hire your own inspector for the last inspection before you assumed owner ship. always good to check.

but remember you wont actually own the hosue til its done.
so you should look at already available houses in your area.

[draggar]

Something else to add that I forgot to mention in my last post: During the building of all the homes, KB hires a 3rd party inspector three times to come out and check the place out. If the inspections come back with anything negative, they fix it before we close on it. They said that we can hire an inspector ourselves to do the same thing, however, they already hire a 3rd party inspector and they pay for those inspections, so I assume that's a good sign that they're at least trying to build a decent home.

RED FLAG!!!!

THEY'RE hiring a contractor to come out and inspect it. Just like buying a home the bank sends out an inspector to make sure the house is OK. They're being paid to say that the house is OK and doesn't need any work - what do you think they'll say if they know the bank may lose the mortgage if they point out issues?

Same thing here. Plus, the economy and housing market is in the gutter so a lot of these people are looking for work, they'll say anything to be able to have repeat business.

personally i would still hire your own inspector for the last inspection before you assumed owner ship. always good to check.

Yes, hire your own to inspect the home - hire them to make sure it is what you want, up to code, and liveable.

[taxguykarl]

When my then-GF, now wife and I were shopping for a house, we were not impressed by the workmanship of KB. Even the models had some shoddy construction. Moreover, they gave us all kinds of run-around when we asked about the price of duplicating the model, which had various goodies that were not in the floor plan's description. Caveat Emptor for new-home builders. Another note: My BIL in the roofing business is in court with KB over non-payment.

[protege]

RED FLAG!!!!

THEY'RE hiring a contractor to come out and inspect it. Just like buying a home the bank sends out an inspector to make sure the house is OK. They're being paid to say that the house is OK and doesn't need any work - what do you think they'll say if they know the bank may lose the mortgage if they point out issues?

I was thinking the same thing. Also check to see if your area requires home inspectors to have some sort of certification or license. Some states (Pennsylvania is one) do not have any such requirements. Any idiot with some tools and a pickup truck can claim to be a "home inspector."

I got lucky when I bought my house in 2006. The place had been empty nearly a year, and the owner wanted to shift it. Not that there was anything wrong with the place, other than a damaged furnace...which they took care of. No, they simply got tired of having to maintain it and pay the property taxes. I simply happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Anyway, when you get a home inspection, depending on the inspector, they might let you observe what they're doing, as well as ask any questions. One thing I noticed, is that the guys were very thorough--they took the furnace apart to check for problems; they went into the crawl space under the porch; checked out the tiny attic, etc. all for the report that I was given later.

Keep in mind that the inspection wasn't cheap. Mine ran about $400. Expensive yes, but look at it this way--would you rather spend $400 to uncover potential problems now.... or possibly-thousands later, that you could have saved if you'd gotten the inspection in the first place?

Should also mention that I don't have a fireplace either. It would have been nice to have last year when the gas service was out...but oh well.

[thegiraffe]

Eh, I'd be concerned about buying a new, "custom built" home.

I mean, yeah...it's nice to have what you want and choose everything and have it all be nice and shiny and pretty when you move in.

*BUT*

They don't build houses now like they used to. Is the construction wood or solid block? In my area, at least (Central Florida), they've moved away from the solid block houses in favor of wood houses.

You live in Texas. Texas is near the Gulf of Mexico, which is infamous for brewing up some wicked Hurricanes. I remember driving (well, riding in a car) through parts of Miami a couple months after Hurricane Andrew. The place was a total disaster, but one thing you consistently saw still standing were garages made of solid block. Something to think about...

Second, I worry about these "seminars" that companies put on to sell their product. Yes, times are super tough right now, I get it. But I know that there have been significant quality issues with KB homes here in recent years (mold appearing within a couple years, overall crappy workmanship, etc), and I just get kind of a funny feeling about them in general. The pessimistic part of me makes me wonder if they're trying to paint a picture of roses when it really isn't so.

I dunno...do your research. Shop around. Don't get your heart set on this particular model with these particular features. The great news is that there are tons of homes on the market right now for well below what they're probably worth. Also keep in mind that older, more established neighborhoods may in fact be more fun, safer, etc because people have established friendships, it's established a culture, etc. Newer neighborhoods need to build that, and it takes time.

The best advice I was given when it comes to considering making a large purchase is to always let them know you don't NEED what they're selling. Let them know that you'll walk if they're being dishonest, unfair, pushy, etc. Once they see that you have your heart set on something, they feed off of that. Not to sound pessimistic, but they're hurting right now! They want to make money...


Some research to get you started:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/kb_home.html

http://www.kbhome-classaction.com/

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...1083_mz017.htm

http://classactionlawtoday.com/blogs...ts-expand.aspx

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../kb_homes.html

[Evil Queen]

EQ, thanks for the first-hand experience with KB Homes. We got some info today at the seminar that contradicts some of what you were saying so I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain a bit for you knowledge.

Be my guest. I'm a little rusty (it's been 5 years since I did any major construction, i.e. built a house from scratch, but I still help remodel on occasion)

Can homes become less insulated over time?

From my experience, they can. But it takes a very long time. Over time, anything and everything will degrade. Duct tape, for example. I suggest you can get highest R rating you can find for your insulation (and make sure it's installed; the condo I lived in in Houston did not have ANY. WTF, right?). The thicker the insulation, the higher the rating. But that could also take away from your square footage.

The normal interior wall is approximately 4 inches thick. Mine are 8 inches, but I also live in an older, plaster house. Air is the insulation for plaster homes and it tends to stay a comfortable temperature.

The most common (easiest to find) insulation is the Pink stuff (with the Pink Panther on it). It's easy to install, just make sure you (the royal you) wear gloves. It's very thinly spun glass so it will cut and make you itch. The best insulation I've found is a material made of denim called Natural Denim or Cellulose (up to R-30 I've found). It's pricey but seems to work. They also recently came out with one made of shredded newspaper, treated with a flame retardant material but it's messy and makes it difficult to remove a wall later if you want a bigger room. (also, I don't believe in "Flame retardant" anything, but that's another story. One that includes Stupid People thinking "retardant" means "proof")

Double pane windows are usually expensive as well but always worth it. They're easy to clean and really do cut down on the amount of energy going... out the window... (sorry for the pun, I didn't mean to!)

Doors; the heavier the better. My parents always used steel storm doors. I have solid oak. Make sure you use a good weather stripping.
Thicker is not necessarily better for this application. The fuzzy ones are okay as window liners but I like to use the thin rubbery ones for doors since they get a lot of abuse (and clean the door frames, wiping them down with rubbing alcohol with help make sure there's no grime sticking to the adhesive strips)

If I remember correctly, you're in central Texas, right? Lets talk about Swamp Coolers verses Standard Air Conditioning Units.

Swamp Coolers
In regularly dry climates (scrub desert areas like western Texas, New Mexico and parts of Arizona) the Swamp Cooler is king. It puts cooled water into the air, pumping the hot air through a cardboard or hay-like sheet that has bee drenched in water. In my experience, running this machine for about an hour cools the house down quickly. These things will go through anywhere between 3 and 15 gallons of water a day. So far the most my water bill has ever been was $40, with the cooler running 3-4 hours in a 24 hour period. They come in very few models and are not particularly energy efficient. However, if rain is a regular phenomenon in your area, you may want to go with a Train (Air Conditioning Unit)

Air Conditioning Units
Come in different models and brands depending on your need. You may not have heard of it, but Train is a very reliable brand. I've used this same system and have installed it in several houses in NC, SC, GA and TN. (I've not had the opportunity to install in FL or VA only because I worked in the winter months for those states) Air Conditioning units use a chemical to cool the air, running it around metal pipes filled with Freon. This is what cools the air. It has the ability to be more energy efficient than the Swamp Cooler and works well in most urban and suburban settings.

Lightbulbs; You know those energy efficient ones that say "will save up to $30 on your electric bill"? It's true! I bought a bunch of them and replaced them right away in areas where I don't normally need a lot of light, but leave the light on a lot; the foyer, the mudroom, both porches and it's saved me $32! I went back to the store and purchased the ones that are equal to a 100 watt bulb to put in the living room, bathroom and bedrooms. Another $15 down! The bulbs were cheap at Sam's club, coming to approximately 75 cents each. Ace Hardware is currently selling the individual ones for about a buck a piece.

We met the guy who heads up all the construction of the homes in the area that we would buy, if we go with them. We didn't meet his team but I assumed he would work with the same guys mostly. Is that a bad assumption to make?

Yes, it is. Most of the construction workers I knew in Texas were day labourers picked up in front of Home Depot (and I drove past them twice a week). Sometimes you'll luck out and get someone who knows what they're doing. But most of the time, I wouldn't want them to do my landscaping, much less my house.

Do you have any suggestions?

Not without knowing where you live currently and the people who work there. That takes years to figure out. Honestly, I would go through the trouble of building myself, but I have the ability to do that (well, no, my electrical license expired almost 2 years ago now so I would have to take classes to get it renewed). See if you can talk to KB's customers, see what they have to say about their homes and service. Then talk to the BBB and see if they can possibly suggest someone worth your time.

During the building of all the homes, KB hires a 3rd party inspector three times to come out and check the place out. If the inspections come back with anything negative, they fix it before we close on it. They said that we can hire an inspector ourselves to do the same thing, however, they already hire a 3rd party inspector and they pay for those inspections, so I assume that's a good sign that they're at least trying to build a decent home.

You would think so but it's not. Not unless you know the inspector, personally, that they are hiring. Hire your own inspector, one that's been recommended through friends or that you have used before is preferable. Lots of states have their own codes. For example; a house in Texas up to New Mexico codes would NEVER pass Texas inspection. (NM homes tend not to have supporting walls INSIDE the house, it's always the outer walls that are supporting, and people tend to add on to houses out here as carelessly as an idiot putting in a garden without checking for gas or water lines)
I hired a guy I knew from Albuquerque; great guy. I knew him when several friends were looking into buying my then landlords' house. He remembered me and gave me a HUGE discount ($150 instead of $400)
Also, you don't need an inspector to come out so often. Once if he's good, maybe twice, is all you need.



God that's long. Hope I was helpful. If you have any other questions, let me know.

[MaggieTheCat]

Thanks everyone. My husband and I have gotten some info from KB homes, namely their warranty and a copy of the HOA by-laws. I don't like the idea of living in a neighborhood with an HOA, but from everything I've heard, every decent neighborhood in the city has some kind of HOA. My husband says we don't want to live in an area without one, simply because no HOA = sleezy neighborhood. This one doesn't sound too complicated. I don't like the idea of having to get permission from someone to do stuff like change the exterior of the house, but I don't really see it as being an issue, either.

We are also looking at some other options. A co-worker of my husband's had his home built by a company called Medallion a few years ago, and he loves it. There is a Medallion neighborhood not too far away from the KB neighborhood we were looking at, so I contacted Medallion to find out if we can meet with them and go check it out.

Also in that area, and the area we were looking at the KB homes at, has a LOT of pre-existing homes for sale in our price range. A friend of ours knows a Realtor who she's going to set us up with and my husband is thinking of taking Friday off work so we can go house-hunting Friday and Saturday.