ME2 SPOILER thread (warning, spoilers ahead!)

[RayvenQ]

It might have just been something as simple as not assigning your guys the right roles.

[Gravekeeper]

got the geth dude, ran a few more missions, mined some minerals to get my final ship upgrade, and THEN went through the relay....


be honest...did I wait to long or does it reeally matter?

Depends, if you wait between your crew being captured and going through the relay the casualty list starts to tick up starting with non-squad crew ( Kelly, the doctor, the mess cook, etc ). Not sure if it affects squad crew or not, it might if Lewis's game is any indication. I went through immediately because I wanted vengeeeeeance~.

[LewisLegion]

Yeah, I still can't figure out how I lost Legion.

I've started my main ManShep playthrough and restarted my main FemShep. So hopefully I'll be able to get everyone through alive this time.

My roommates have started ME1 chars to play through that and get them into ME2, so I've started a fire apparently Course, this does mean we'll be fighting for the Xbox now....

[Gravekeeper]

Just for tormenting Lewis purposes. The PC version of the game has one cut character ( Kasumi ) that didn't make it in time for release that's being repackaged as a DLC. All her files are in ME2 cept art/model already and you can hear references to her around Citadel. Second up is the Hammerhead ( Replacing the Mako ). Though I recoil in terror over having vehicle missions again. >.>

The PC game code also seems to have additional flag references to Liara and unused Liara audio. Like they were working on moar but didn't make it.

Fingers crossed for Liara DLC. But will gladly take a Kasumi in the meantime. ;p

[lordlundar]

Fingers crossed for Liara DLC. But will gladly take a Kasumi in the meantime. ;p

Supposedly they're tying it in with the redemption comic, as an explination on what Liara was actually doing in that time between the Normandy being destroyed and the events of the second game.

[Gravekeeper]

Supposedly they're tying it in with the redemption comic, as an explination on what Liara was actually doing in that time between the Normandy being destroyed and the events of the second game.

Yar, though technically the Redemption comic does explain that, ehe. Even with reading the comics though it still strikes me as a bit of a cop out reason for having Liara refuse to join the crew.

"Hey Liara, I have my own ship, the best crew in the galaxy, unlimited funding, years worth of Cerberus intel data and access to one of the largest information networks in the universe. Oh and if my mission fails you and everyone you know will die screaming anyway."
"Nah, this will go faster from my shithole office on Illium with just me and my laptop kthxbye."

Yeah, no. ;p

[lordlundar]

"Hey Liara, I have my own ship, the best crew in the galaxy, unlimited funding, years worth of Cerberus intel data and access to one of the largest information networks in the universe. Oh and if my mission fails you and everyone you know will die screaming anyway."
"Nah, this will go faster from my shithole office on Illium with just me and my laptop kthxbye."

Gotta disagree with you there GK. Don't forget that the Normandy SR-2 is owned by Cerberus, not Shepard, and EDI admits to there being an incredible amount of monitoring equipment on the ship to ensure Shepard does the job. In addition, Cerberus isn't willing to allow an alien, let alone one with ties to the Shadow Broker, free access to the intel database. (remember, the only ones on that ship are ones specifically approved by the Illusive Man personally, Legion and Grunt being the only exclusions but approved because they are set on the same goal) Remember, Liara is bound determined to expose secrets, and the Illusive man has a LOT of them.


Now as it stands, Liara is one of the top information brokers in the galaxy. Heck, she's come a hell of a lot closer to destroying the entire Shadow network than most have ever dared to try and is still alive.

That "shithole office" and laptop have done a virtual impossibility. So given the choice of a database that you might not have access to or if you did will be heavily monitored, or a personal information network that is capable of tackling some of the greatest secrets in the galaxy, I'd take the "shithole office" myself.

[Gravekeeper]

Gotta disagree with you there GK. <snip>

#1: I was being a sarcastic bastard. ( It's kind of my MO, <cough> )

#2: Dunno about you but I recovered and kept that entire Cerberus database for myself and TIM didn't pick up on that one.

#3: TIM has a rather obvious bone to pick with SB.

#4: Shepard has ultimate control over the ship's databases. ( Otherwise there's no way you could have ordered them open to Jack. )

#5: Its implied and noted a few times that the monitoring equipment on board has Miranda at the helm, not TIM. Else TIM would have sunk your farkin' ass with a push of a button at the end of the game. >.>

#6: Even if Liara's reasoning made sense, Saving Galaxy > Shepard > Vengeance for Numbnuts. Ignoring the threat to the galaxy is rather stupid. Ignoring her loyalty ( and possibly LI ) to Shepard is rather stupid. Leaving Shepard in Cerb's talons ( When Garrus and Tali both trusted Shep and came on board to watch Shep's back ) is also rather stupid. Especially after she did so much to revive Shepard in the first place.

#7: Oh, and if that laptop is all powerful, how come I'm the one running around hacking things for her. ><

She needs a smack upside the head.....albeit not as hard a one as Ashley deserves. <mutter>

[RayvenQ]

#7: Oh, and if that laptop is all powerful, how come I'm the one running around hacking things for her. ><

She needs a smack upside the head.....albeit not as hard a one as Ashley deserves. <mutter>

Becuse Shep is too dumb to see that he's been made the gopher.

[Gravekeeper]

Becuse Shep is too dumb to see that he's been made the gopher.

Oh I could see it. It was just, oh hey, creds. >.>

I just don't like how the ME1 love interests were so neatly disposed of ( Hell, Ash was practically blown out an airlock writing wise ) when they proved with Tali and Garrus that they could have easily brought them on board.

[lordlundar]

#1: I was being a sarcastic bastard. ( It's kind of my MO, <cough> )

Duly noted.

#2: Dunno about you but I recovered and kept that entire Cerberus database for myself and TIM didn't pick up on that one.

You mean the one where you turn it over to cerebus , the alliance, or keep it? Yeah, I turned it over to the Alliance. Here's the thing, TIM knows you. He spent the last two years (and god knows how much longer before that) knowing your exact details. Think about it, there are references made during your "interview" at the beginning that was well beyond regular access because you were a Spectre. Under any event, with the Reapers breathing down your neck, the information you kept is inconsequential in the grand the scheme of things.

#3: TIM has a rather obvious bone to pick with SB.

Yeah, I doubt he's a big fan of the SB, but Liara has a determination of exposing secrets regardless of the source. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend in this case.

#4: Shepard has ultimate control over the ship's databases. ( Otherwise there's no way you could have ordered them open to Jack. )

Ah yes, Jack. The psycopathic biotic with a hatred toward cerberus. Here's the fun thing, TIM knew Jack that was focused on finding out about her history, and he had no real involvement in it. Apart from wanting to rip Miranda apart for trying to hide the info, Jack calms down considerably after that event. Jack's info hunt was focused on soley about herself. Liara on the other hand has a habit of wanting to destroy the organization entirely. Liara is FAR more of a threat than Jack is.

And if you think for a second that TIM didn't know or approve the decision, then you need to look into the behind the scenes of cerberus a little more. Shepard's on a pretty tight leash, whether s/he knows it or not.

#5: Its implied and noted a few times that the monitoring equipment on board has Miranda at the helm, not TIM. Else TIM would have sunk your farkin' ass with a push of a button at the end of the game. >.>

1) Miranda doesn't answer to you in the grand scheme of things, she answers to TIM. At the end of Jacob's Loyalty Mission, Shepard clearly says that nothing goes on in the ship without TIM's knowledge. The only reason she listens to you is because tactically, you know how to get things done.

2) the Reapers aren't gone, so there's still bigger fish to fry. Eliminating the only one who has destroyed a Reaper is a very stupid thing to do, and TIM is by no means stupid.

#6: Even if Liara's reasoning made sense, Saving Galaxy > Shepard > Vengeance for Numbnuts. Ignoring the threat to the galaxy is rather stupid. Ignoring her loyalty ( and possibly LI ) to Shepard is rather stupid. Leaving Shepard in Cerb's talons ( When Garrus and Tali both trusted Shep and came on board to watch Shep's back ) is also rather stupid. Especially after she did so much to revive Shepard in the first place.

What could she bring? She was a valuable addition more for her knowledge of the Protheans than her skills. She has no archeological knowledge of the collectors and next to Shepard, her knowledge of the reapers is minimal at best. Her biotics are not the strongest by her own admission. (Jack and Samara bring more tactically) As for the leaving Shep in Cerberus' claws? Like you said, Garrus and Tali has Sheperd's back, more so than she could do. As well, only two people are Cerberus on the core team, and only Miranda is actually loyal to the organization. At best, if she screws over Shepard, she'll have a lot of pissed off people on her ass. All Liara can really bring to the mission that isn't covered better is her information network, which is sorely hampered away from her base of operations.

#7: Oh, and if that laptop is all powerful, how come I'm the one running around hacking things for her. ><

Not everything has a single source, and not all sources link directly to each other. Information wars are a funny thing, you have to get the info in your adversary's network while leaving your own secure. That's why it's so tough to bring down someone like the Shadow Broker. S/he knows how to keep the info hidden. That's why you have to hack those terminals. She can't trust her normal sources, she can't do it herself without leaving herself vulnerable, and she certainly can't use any equipment with ties to her.

She needs a smack upside the head.....albeit not as hard a one as Ashley deserves. <mutter>

Liara knows she's not nearly as valuable to the objective this time around, and the only way she could be valuable as a team member would cause her to lose her validity the second she joins up. She knows that the galaxy is in good hands with Shepard on the case and trusts him/her to get the job done.

Ashely though, yeah, she could use a rife but up the side of the head to knock some sense into her.

[Gravekeeper]

I kept it for leverage. -.-

Think about it, there are references made during your "interview" at the beginning that was well beyond regular access because you were a Spectre.

Nothing in the initial interview was deep information of any sort. Your background, military service record and who was KIA was the bulk of it. I can't imagine that's hard info to obtain considering Shepard was practically worshiped as a superhero after the events of ME1 before he died and was swept under the rug by the council.

I imagine his background, military service record and whomever bravely died during his mission are practically on the back of cereal boxes. >.>

Yeah, I doubt he's a big fan of the SB, but Liara has a determination of exposing secrets regardless of the source.

Only in regards to SB, and a determination conveniently penned in for ME2.

Jack's info hunt was focused on soley about herself. Liara on the other hand has a habit of wanting to destroy the organization entirely.

Jack wanted a hit list ( and got it ) and has more reason to hate Cerb then Liara does. Liara on the other hand, her entire motivation is wrapped up in the destruction of SB. She's obviously willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish this regardless of morality or association. Depending on how Shep played it, me thinks Jack would be more dangerous honestly.

Liara fights with information, which, ironically, I think would be easier for TIM to counter considering his position and resources. Jack on the other hand, with Shepard to taxi her around and give her a semblance of tactics would be a biotic a-bomb going off at every Cerb facility you could find the location of. Which is quite a few.

Honestly, the entire crew ( The best and the brightest so to speak ) are extremely dangerous in Shepard's hands. TIM's already taken a huge risk giving them to Shep, Liara isn't going to tip the scale in any way.

Miranda doesn't answer to you in the grand scheme of things, she answers to TIM.

Miranda is easy to win over to your side and practically flips TIM the bird at the end if you play it right. Jacob never came across as really loyal to Cerberus anyhow.

What could she bring?

Considering she helped me kill a Reaper the first time around? Her combat abilities and biotics are nothing to sneeze at and now she's armed with a vast information network and a killer instinct? Hell yes. There's no argument for her being weak compared to the ME2 crew, else Tali and Garrus could fark off too. Miranda and Jack are powerful human biotics. Asari biotics, ala Samara, are always described as being more powerful. I'll take two Samara over a Jack/Samara thanks. >.>

Liara doesn't even acknowledge Tali/Garrus, or visa versa, if you bring them to her office. Bad writers, bad.

That's why you have to hack those terminals.

See: Sarcastic bastard. <cough>

I don't think Liara particularly cares at the moment, she's just a tad obsessed this time around. Hence the kinda weak plot excuse to keep her off the crew. Requiring people to read a comic series they may not even know about to have any clue why Liara seems to be tossing Shepard aside was also kinda weak.

I think the weak writing in this regard comes as a result of trying to make the sequel "friendly" to people that never played the first game. Hence ejecting the love interests, then building a new persona around Garrus and tossing Tali in very early in the game for new players to become acquainted.

Its just that its kinda lame to do it this way. The scenarios that play out for Ash, Kaiden and Liara are fine for new players but there really, really should have been much much more for veteran players of ME1. Its kind of a smack in the face ( Almost literally with Ash >< ) for anyone that played ME1 and was hoping to see an LI plot continue into ME2. Instead of having to wait for DLC or ME3.

Made especially annoying by the Tali romance, which is perhaps the best in ME2 simply because it builds from ME1.

Now we can only hope for DLC, but still kinda lame that it has to come from DLC to begin with.

But at least we are in agreement on the smacking of Ashley. <nods wisely>

[lordlundar]

Meh Agree to disagree at any rate. Under any event, I found my Favorite quote set in the game. It occurs when talking to the detective when you're trying to recruit Samara, bring Garrus and Tali

Shepard: your superiors are sending you to die for no good reason. You have a right to disobey.
Garrus: we can disobey suicidal orders? Why wasn't I told?
Tali: That's about twice a day.

Brought a good laugh to me.

[LewisLegion]

I’m playing through this time as a complete and utter bastard, with a MaleShep that didn’t romance anyone. Ash was a lot less harsh than I expected her to be (then again, if the Shep is a Shep she loved I can see her being more hurt and angry, regardless of if it’s justified). Liara as well seemed a bit more mellow but unusually happy to see Shepard (which is odd because that particular Shepard was a total ass to her…and everyone else). The ONLY one who seemed to remember that this Shepard was an ass was Tali…man, she was almost HOSTILE the moment Shepard appeared at Freedom’s Progress. I’m surprised icicles didn’t form on her mask.

As for the ongoing Liara debate…yeah, I’m a bit miffed that she was reduced so much in this game. And yes, her whole hostile attitude was a bit off-putting…though less so when I found out some of the motivation behind it. I feel as GK does a bit, that the excuse to keep her off the ship was simply contrived to be an excuse to keep her off the ship. However I will wait for the DLC and even ME3 if need be, to see how Bioware resolves the LI conundrum. And hopefully I’ll be going ‘wow, that’s really awesome’ instead of throwing my controller at my tv.

[Gravekeeper]

I’m playing through this time as a complete and utter bastard, with a MaleShep that didn’t romance anyone. Ash was a lot less harsh than I expected her to be <snip>
.

Yeah, my MaleShep had her as an LI in ME1 and she just goes off on you like a grenade regardless of what you say or do. In fact the more reasonable you try to act the more she tears into you.

Interesting on Tali being hostile. ME characters tend to develop to one degree or another based on whether you're Paragon or Renegade, but Tali was pretty much 100% Paragon regardless of what you said or did. So stands to reason she'd remember and resent you being a dick, hehe.