On writing and the likes thereof.

[Amethyst Hunter]

The recent post about submitting to a publisher and the responding comments have got me thinking tonight.

I call myself a writer. I have never had anything professionally published - with the exception of a few letters to newspapers in the past, the vast bulk of what I do is fanfiction. I enjoy fanfiction, so that's what I write.

I've always been good with English-related subjects, and people have consistently told me that I should write 'for real'. Except, I waffle back and forth over whether or not I should. (Hooray Libra suck. Indecision, I has it and then some.)

Part of it is a good amount of fear. The real-life subjects that interest me are also the same ones very likely to get me in a heap of trouble with my family and the general community. I can think of at least one topic that I feel very strongly about that would probably get one or two family members to never speak to me again (and these are family members with whom I would actually like to maintain a connection) because we hold such opposing views on it. I actually have pulled out of a potential column because I felt I couldn't write about what I really wanted to write about without causing too much trouble.

Part of it is my ADD. I have a very hard time focusing, much less committing, to anything long-term. The main reason I've stuck with fanfic for so long is because I love it. I can't seem to find anything 'real-life' that I care about as much.

I've never had any job any higher than retail slave. Going into my current one, I realized I can't continue to do this, because it just destroys me on a physical and mental level. My writing has suffered badly ever since taking this job; I hardly have time or energy to bother anymore. And though I enjoy what little money I am bringing in, I resent losing that writing time.

But I can't see myself doing anything else as far as employment goes. I'm not smart enough or physically fit enough to do much else, and with the rapidly changing world of technology, I'm even less sure that I'll ever be able to find a solid footing. To put it another way, everybody is on Iphones and Wiis, and I'm still using an '80s Nintendo console with a pay phone.

For the same reasons, further school is out. I can't afford it, for one thing. And there's just nothing that I care about enough to put myself into eternal debt for. Add to that my eternal failure with math, and that puts me off even more. I'm not going to waste hundreds if not thousands of dollars that I don't have trying to take courses that I'm only going to fail anyway. Sure, one of my lifelong regrets is that I don't have a college degree, but it's not worth all that time and expense to me butting my head against a brick wall that's not going to budge one inch.

Sometimes I think about trying professional writing, but what Seshat and others have said about rejection really rings true for me. I don't have a thick skin. I wish I did, but I don't. That's always been a problem for me and part of why bullies just loved to pick on me all the time. (Not that it excuses those bullies. I hate loathe and despise all bullies with the fire of a million and one suns...but that's another story) Trial by fire does not work with me. It only makes me resent you (generic you) even more, and even less likely to do whatever it is.

And let's face it, writing from scratch - building your own world - that's a helluva lot harder than it looks, as any writer, pro or not, will attest. Sometimes I think that I could do that, but then again...I'm not exactly the most imaginative or original. Fanfic for some reason is just easy for me and I can come up with a lot of good stories for the fandom I write for. But original stuff...I've made a few half-hearted (or half-assed) attempts, but never gotten beyond a few paragraphs or so, and the characters just don't seem as alive or real; they're more like the dreaded Mary Sues/Gary Stus that I strive so hard to avoid in fanfic.

So if pro writing isn't for me, then I have no idea where that leaves me. I don't want to work retail for the rest of my life. But there's nothing else that I care about or that I can see myself doing long-term.

Thoughts?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah.

I'm a dyscalculic college drop out with ADD. You don't need a degree to get a decent job.

One day, I will come on here and write a long saga about me, my arrogance, and my bullshit and how it got me a high paying white collar job. But for now I will leave you with this: You need to stop selling yourself short.

I suspect you've heard you're not smart enough to do anything else from other people, people who are most likely not as smart as you are. Stop believing those people. And for God's sake, stop colluding with them.

I have a damn learning disability and I am a college dropout. I am also mostly SELF TAUGHT. I studied, read books, tutored under people, asked questions, took tutorial after tutorial, read more books, tutored under some more people. I am still doing these things. I said "fuck this", dropped out, and then commenced to learning some useful things. Untill the economy turned to shit and I got laid off, I had an extremely fun and cushy job that paid quite well.

Do not sit around and bemoan the fact that the world won't let you have something. I always say if the door's shut, either climb through a window or bore a hole in the fucking wall. Wade past the rules and do it anyways.

Employers ultimately don't care if you have a piece of paper saying you're qualified. They may think they do, but they don't. They want to know if you are, in fact, qualified. Take it into your own hands to be qualified. Granted, this approach will not work if you want to be a doctor or a lawyer or some such. But some skill you can study yourself? No reason you can't.

[Amethyst Hunter]

You need to stop selling yourself short.

I suspect you've heard you're not smart enough to do anything else from other people, people who are most likely not as smart as you are.

Do not sit around and bemoan the fact that the world won't let you have something.

I'm not bemoaning the fact that I'm not (and am not likely to be even in the best of circumstances) a big-name writer like Stephen King or something. (Although I do think it's disgusting that like Sarah Palin and George Bush can churn out bullshit and get paid millions of bucks for it, while better writers get paid squat for their efforts (and they probably don't use ghostwriters either)) What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not writing and I are a good fit, career-wise, or if it's something that would fare better off as a hobby (which is what it is right now), in which case I would have to look elsewhere to find meaningful yet profitable employment - which at this point in time I have no clue how to do or even if that's achievable in my case, considering all the negatives that are stacked against me (long story). If it turns out that I'm better off as a hobbyist, then I need to come to terms with that in spite of whatever delusions I may have had before.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am a damn good writer. Not the greatest, not by a long shot. But good. So it might not be a case of selling myself short, although you're right in that I've been told, in various forms and ways, by various people not always smarter/more talented than me, that I basically suck. Hear enough of that and it does eat away like acid at you over time, whether you believe it or not. (How I feel about that depends on which day you ask me and how good/bad of a mood I'm in at the time.) And, well, it's kinda hard to avoid some of those people when you've grown up with them and have to live with them out of necessity instead of choice. (The ADD, which is its own story, does not help at times - it is very true that in spite of my trying not to, sometimes I can be my own worst enemy and when I do screw up, it piles on more to the mountain of "yes I am a colossal failure and will never be anything worthwhile.")

So basically, I'm trying to figure out, at the ripe old age of 30-something, what I'm going to do with whatever life-time I have left. I've never been able to answer that damned question when they flung it at you in high school; decades later I'm still no closer to it than I ever was before.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Let me ask you this: why does it matter to you if you get paid for writing or not? If you're a writer, it shouldn't matter what you have to do to pay your light bill. You're still a writer.

Do not fall into the confidence-eroding trap of defining yourself by what you have to do to make money. Sometimes you get lucky and get paid for doing your thing and sometimes you have to go to work, if that makes sense.

This is what I have learned in my profession (and otherwise) life: talent and competency have way less to do with anything than you'd think. I flipped through a published novel that got rave review last night that felt like it was written by a child. Heck, look at Twilight. Not tremendously well written. Terrible singers are huge stars. Bad graphic design and art is everywhere. It's annoying, yes. And not fair. But that's life.

Nobody is gonna show up on your doorstep out of the blue and hand you a writing contract that is going to enable you to quit your job. Even if you do get a contract, unless you are a big name, you still probably will not be able to quit your job. I'm not trying to discourage you, but you need to keep the playing field in perspective. It's a lot less about talent and more about connections and drive. And that's the case in just about any field.

I like to write, too. So I write. So far, not exploding my bank account. I sold a few coffee mugs with my characters on them, but otherwise, that ain't setting the world on fire, either. I'll tell you what I tell people who ask why I post four thousand words a week online: You can't sell what you can't give away. The publishing process does not appeal to me at all. I don't want to screw with that. I just want to write. I just have to write. So I do. (although the husband has decided to do some print on demand of my stuff...fine, whatever. I have had readers say they would buy a hardcopy if one was available, so he's welcome to do that if he wants. Frankly, with Kindle and Amazon and all, why not, there's no stigma attached to it anymore.)

Right now, if I had to define myself by making money, it would have to be fortunetelling or freelance graphic art. Unless you count the coffee mugs I peddle. If you define me by what I do the most of, I would have to say laundry.

[AnaKhouri]

Everything Kinkoid said is completely true. Even if you do sell some of your writing,more than likely you can't live off it anyway (the vast majority of authors- even novelists- don't make enough to live off of and have day jobs), so why worry? Write what you like, what makes you happy. Submit it if you think it's good; the first 'no' stings, but it's like getting a shot. In an hour you won't even remember it. If you never submit anything, that's fine. Whatever makes YOU happy.

I don't know what to tell you about your future. I don't know what your obstacles are. But if you want a different job, apply. All they can do to you is say 'no'. Like I told SengaKitty, my toddler takes every 'no' as a challenge. Frustrating for me, but not a bad attitude to have!

Like Kinkoid said, learning can be done many different ways. You don't need a professor to tell you how to do it.

I leave you with a poem by WS Merwin, a writer far more talented than myself.



Berryman

I will tell you what he told me
in the years just after the war
as we then called
the second world war

don't lose your arrogance yet he said
you can do that when you're older
lose it too soon and you may
merely replace it with vanity

just one time he suggested
changing the usual order
of the same words in a line of verse
why point out a thing twice

he suggested I pray to the Muse
get down on my knees and pray
right there in the corner and he
said he meant it literally

it was in the days before the beard
and the drink but he was deep
in tides of his own through which he sailed
chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop

he was far older than the dates allowed for
much older than I was he was in his thirties
he snapped down his nose with an accent
I think he had affected in England

as for publishing he advised me
to paper my wall with rejection slips
his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled
with the vehemence of his views about poetry

he said the great presence
that permitted everything and transmuted it
in poetry was passion
passion was genius and he praised movement and invention

I had hardly begun to read
I asked how can you ever be sure
that what you write is really
any good at all and he said you can't

you can't you can never be sure
you die without knowing
whether anything you wrote was any good
if you have to be sure don't write

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Oh.

Wow.

I'm going to put a copy of that away for myself.

I have tears in my eyes.

Dammit.

[RootedPhoenix]

I'd have to agree with Kinkoid and AnaKhouri.

I've been a writer since I was 15. I've never made any money from it. I've been a musician since I was a child. Never made money from that either. I've made jewelry off and on for....maybe 10 years? I've made 20 dollars. (I won't say what I've spent on any of these pursuits.)

Creative pursuits are the hardest things to make money at. Some dingbat will always try to tell you suck. Some jerk will merrily insinuate that your work is worthless because of....well...whatever reason they discovered while shoving their head up their butt. Who knows.

I can say this though. Creative things are one of the things that keeps the world spinning. I have to write, or I will be a statistic of some flavor. Music does the same thing. It keeps my world spinning.

My hope is that my work makes someone smile. Makes someone hope for more in life than a dismal greyness. It already does that for one person, every single day.

Me. That's worth more than all the praise and money the world can throw at me.

I still beat on myself, but I have to remind myself of these things. I'm saving my own self from a crappy existence. That's reason enough for my stuff to exist.

*offers hugs and cookies to all*

[MoonCat]

Oh god, that poem, especially the last 3 verses...I'm crying too. Yes, yes that's the way it is.

If I don't write I am nothing.

Amethyst, it is hard to put your heart and soul out there for other people to critique. But sometimes the hardest things in life are the most necessary. There are online writing groups you can join (some are free, some charge a fee) and most people on them will not be cruel to you. And if anyone is, they're breaking the site's rules and you can report them. It's hard to post your work on them, at least at first...I used to shake when I hit the "send" button...but it does get easier, and you can get to know people there the same way you do here on on CS. And it's not just about posting your own work. You also contribute by critiquing other people's work, which can teach you a lot about the writing process and help you improve your own work.

I hate having to work all day, too. I never get enough time to write. But I keep at it, even if it ends up being only for myself.

You say you're a good writer. Knowing that is a first step. Most writers aren't Stephen King or whoever. So what? You have something no other writer has: Your own voice. Have faith in it, use it, develop it. Find a way to take the next step, whether it's a local writing group, an online course or workshop, whatever. I can't give you advice about jobs, but I know that if you've written good fanfic, then you can create your own worlds, too. You can do it.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah, another thing about rejection. If you can't handle rejection, don't even bother. Seriously. You have to get to place in your head where you just don't give a rat's fuzzy ass what people think.

There is always someone out there who is bitter, or jealous, or just plain so desperate inside themselves that the only way they can cope is to try to tear everyone down to where they are. These are people who would rather tear you down than pick themselves up. Because let's face it, it's easier. You have to believe the truth about that. And the truth is that you are better than they are (at least in this regard) and you should either pity them or ignore them, but by no means believe them.

Want to know what one of the worst episodes of stage fright I ever had was? I wrote a story, put it on Word Press, and hit "send." I broke out into a blood racing, heart pounding sweat. I sing in pubs and have been in plays. I have acted on TV. Worse stage fright was showing strangers my writing.

Now I have my own site and hit send every week and don't even think twice about it. I can even see people hitting the site and reading what I just wrote, from all over the place. They comment. It's still fun, but I don't have near panic attacks anymore. So believe me, it gets easier.

Maybe you ought to try what I'm doing? Keeps you motivated, it's fun, and you meet people. I'm not the only person doing this, so it's evidently it's not all that crazy an idea. (oh, and hey...I accept fanfic submissions and post them on my site....I'm just saying.....)

[Red_Dazes]

Keep doing what you are doing, work on your writing, build it up... and look for other things that interest you.

The sad truth about writing is that, with a few brilliant exceptions, most writers who are published are still going to have to work other jobs to make ends meet. Some of them may get to ride out the publicity wave for a while, but eventually all the 'hot sellers' are going to die down and those people are going to need jobs to make money again.

I don't want to be the downer, cause I am a firm believer in the thought that if you are passionate about something and work hard at it you can be successful, but I am also a realist. And I know that writing is a hard world to get into, especially now in our tech-driven world... hell half the teens I know haven't read any sort of literature beyond Twilight and whatever their English teachers make them read.

As far as rejection goes...I know a girl who has had several of her books published and done quite well. She always tells us Un-published people, that you have to be able to handle rejection....because you will get rejected, some of her best selling books were rejected 10+ times before a publisher picked them up... you just have to accept it gracefully and try again.


Other than that ((my two cents)) I don't have much to add ((Everyone has given you such good advice)), besides the closing thought that next time someone tells you that you should "write for real". Remember that You ARE a writer. It doesn't matter if you never get a word published, or if it is only on your home computer or stashed in notebooks around your house. You write, you love it, and THAT is what makes you a writer.

[Amethyst Hunter]

Thank you everybody, especially Kinkoid.

I kind of suspected it, but I think...my writing is just going to have to stay a hobby.

I guess I've just either been so frustrated that nobody ever seems to give much of a damn about me unless I'm in their way somehow, or they want someone to do their stupid chores for them, and I (mistakenly) thought that writing would bring me some positive attention for once, or I was just caught up in some misguided idea that I could ever be a Big Name. (Or both) And maybe that played a part in my indecision.

But I have to admit: I don't have the thick skin, I don't have the patience and I sure don't have the endurance to get rejected indefinitely before getting any sort of nibble. I also don't have the patience or ability to handle legalese contracts and whatever else comes with the technical details. (For example, if I were to buy a piece of furniture or some such, I don't bother with the hundred-foot manual they include on how to assemble it. I just rip the sucker open and start going to work, trial-and-error, if need be.) And money is very important to me. So is praise. I'm not saying I'd expect the whole world to fawn over me, but I like getting recognized in a positive way. It's not the sole reason I write, but I'd be lying if I denied I got a thrill out of every time a reader of my fanfic sends me a note saying how much they loved it, even if it's just a two-word "great fic!" response.

Unfortunately, money is what rules the world and money is what makes the rules. And by those rules I am defined by what society wants to consider me as. And by society's rules, I'm pretty much a nothing, a nobody - whether I agree with this label or not (and there are plenty of times when I do).

My own family, I suspect, goes by the same line. By anyone's standards, my brother is the one who's made something of himself. Not only does he have a potentially good career ahead of him (and a very socially acceptable one at that), he's also done the "life script" (get married, have kids, etc.). Those aren't necessarily choices I want to do; it's the fact that he's been able to carve out a certain stability for himself that I envy because I've never been able to do it myself (and likely never will). I guess I made the mistake of thinking that writing would fix that.

Oh, I'll still write my fanfic. I enjoy that. But there is nothing by way of actual work that I have ever loved, or would love, doing that I could get paid for. (Unless it's to go around whacking all the people I hate with a big stick.) I'm just there to collect a check, pretty much. And I dread getting worn down by that (especially since retail is notorious for grinding away the soul), but I just don't see any way out of it for me.

[Mytical]

Consider looking into your local community college. Even if it is just basic classes until something catches your fancy. You might find something you love to do, are great at, and can make some decent money off of.

If you are creative, take their art courses, creative writing courses or the like. Don't let the naysayers get you down. I know that voice in the back of the head, it tells people a lot of things that just are not true. It can be hard to ignore that voice, very hard.

You ARE smart enough and you are talented enough. You just have to find out what it is that you are best at. You never know until you try.

Rejection can be hard, but that is what friends and family are for. To be there to ease the pain of rejection. Think about this, it only takes one YES. If you get a YES, and can't handle the paperwork, get a lawyer. You might not make a dime on the first one, but guess what? You will now be a NAME, and the next one you WILL make money on.

Hehe there I go rambling again..sorry.

[AnaKhouri]

I'm afraid I wasn't clear. I wasn't discouraging you from writing or submitting- just saying rejection and criticism will not be as bad as you think they will be. I have been rejected many, many, many times. It stung at first, but now it's like water off a duck's back. Rejection is not necessarily a criticism on your work. Much of it is about markets and what the editor feels like at that moment.

Many libraries and bookstores offer writing groups. I suggest attending one- you don't have to present anything your first couple times- just to see how they work. If you think they might be helpful, go back. Failing that, there are plenty of people here who would be happy to read your stuff, and I can assure you they'll be nice.

As Mytical said, you are not stupid. Stupid people do not engage in creative pursuits of any kind.

As for learning new skills, there are several free online typing courses. Data entry is hardly glamorous but it pays decently.

What interests you? If you like to write, you probably like to read. Is a bookstore job a possibility? Look at what you write fanfic for. Why do you like it? Is there something there that could be turned into a course of study?

As for money making you successful...that's a bunch of bullshit, which I suspect you know, but it is easy to feel overwhelmed by the importance society places on it. Look, my husband is a biochemistry postdoc in one of the best cardiac research labs in the country. He was in school for 10 years and has a doctorate. Know how much money he makes? About $35,000 a year, what a first-year teacher fresh out of college makes. He works anywhere from 60-90 hours a week (never less than 12 hours a day, seven days a week). By most scales, we are not successful. We are, in fact, quite poor. But Husband is doing research that could save lives. We don't have HDTVs or SUVs or any of that fancy shit. We don't even have cable. But we are happy. And I am proud of how hard he works and all the good he does. As long as you can take care of yourself and save a little, that's all you need.

OK, rant over.

[Amethyst Hunter]

We are done here.

I have reached my snapping point as of tonight.

I have had a nice big shit sandwich sundae shitsicle of a week, and today's crapper coating has cinched it for me.

I finally realized that writing is what I want to do. It is the only thing I actually enjoy doing. It is the only thing I can concentrate for hours on. If I'm lucky, maybe I'll even make some money off it.

I'm fed up with retail bullshit. I can't do this anymore. It's eating away at me like the acid it is, and if I have to do this any longer I'm going to snap in a Very Bad Way.

I don't want to go back to school for anything. There's nothing that I care about enough to spend time and money on. I think this is why I was always so bored in school/community college. All I had to do was barf back up the stuff that was fed to me, and everybody was happy. Meanwhile I don't think I ever really truly learned anything, certainly nothing practical like skills that I could have used. But it makes sense now.

My folks, who are coming to visit me this week, will be pissed to hear this news. But I don't care anymore. My whole life has been lived tiptoeing around them doing what they wanted, and all it's ever gotten me is stepped on and nowhere. They won't support me in my writing. I know this as fact; when I've shown them stuff in the past they always squished it in some way. Fuck it. I'm tired of wanting/needing their approval. I'm never going to get it. So I may as well do what makes me happy, even though I'll be poorer for it. But I've kind of resigned myself to that future anyway. I never could rise above retail slave status. Now I know I never will. I don't have the stomach for it. If I'm doomed, I want it to be on my own terms.

So be it.

[Kara]

I fancy myself a writer. I've been writing stuff since probably 2nd grade. Small stories, full-length novels, even a sprawling epic (intended as a video game) that I co-wrote with my best friend in middle/high school that we'll probably never be able to do anything with. Most recently, I wrote a three-part story that I absolutely love, is desperately in need of being re-written, and it's just been sitting on the back burner for 3 years now. I have a recent edition of the Writer's Market (listings for publishers and agents and what their submission guidelines are). I have a metric f*ckton of ideas in my head. Will I ever publish anything? I don't know. Because I'm my own biggest critic and can't help but find flaws in my work. Nothing is ever "good enough."

What really got me to the point where I could realistically consider the possibility that I could be published was this book by Stephen King. It is kind of an autobiography, but more of a look back at how he grew to love to write and eventually become a published author. It's not, "I'm successful and you can be too," it's "This is not for everyone and you may utterly fail, but it can't hurt to try." Take this immensely successful author and try to picture him working 12 hour days in a laundromat, coming home to a tiny apartment, and using a typewriter on the washing machine to write short stories for Penthouse. There's a lot about failure and rejection, it's a REALISTIC look at being a writer. There are things that I'd never read before, such as avoiding agents who want you to pay them to read your work (any GOOD agent can sustain themselves off selling manuscripts to publishers), and that some agents will send you advice along with the rejection notice (for instance, you should never staple a manuscript you submit; if you have to use anything, use a paperclip).

The point to consider is this. When Stephen King wrote "Carrie," his first novel, his first big break, he threw it in the trash. His wife found it and read it, and told him she thought he really had something there and encouraged him to not give up. This man LITERALLY nearly threw away his entire career. But the frustration is part of the writing process, it comes with the territory. Most successful authors don't hesitate to tell you that they could wallpaper their homes with their letters of rejection. Take constructive criticism seriously, listen to the advice of professionals, and if you really believe in something don't give up.

Anyone who sets out to be the next (Insert Popular Writer) is in it for the wrong reasons. Don't overestimate your chances. Many writers keep their regular jobs, not everyone can make a living writing. Most importantly, enjoy it. Even if it doesn't get anywhere, I find so much fulfillment in writing the last page and completing a story.