Our Commune Idea

[LewisLegion]

So for a couple of years my BFF and I have been kicking around this idea. Lately, we've talked to some other really good friends of ours and it seems to be becoming less a dreamy 'wouldn't it be nice if' idea and more a 'this is potentially viable, what do we need to do to get it done' kind of idea.

We want to start a commune.

Not a religious one (NEVER EVER in a BILLION YEARS). I'm Christian. My BFF is Buddhist. Our other good friends are atheist/agnostic/also Buddhist. Religion will not play a factor.

Rather, we want it to be an independant, off the grid as much as possible artist community. We are all artists, running the gamut from photographers of every kind to painters, writers, film-makers, confectionists etc.

The idea is to get a lot of acreage. All of us will each have our own houses that we will put up on the property, built to be solar/wind powered with water reclamation set-ups and onsite wells (if possible). We will still remain on the grid as far as tv/internet connections go and some goods but we will grow as much of our own food as possible, have chickens, goats, some alpaca and possibly a camel or two. There will be a large 'community house' where we will spend our evenings gaming, socializing, watching movies, eating dinner, etc. while each maintaining our own living space as we like and prefer it.

Two of our good friends will run a photography studio that will be open for use for other photographers to rent out, with special days where the studio is available for free to the general public to use. There will be onsite computers with editing software and different photography equipment also available for use/rent. They're also considering opening it up twice a month for schools to come in for use/field trips in order to get schooling grants from the state.

Another pair of our good friends make jewelry, so they will do jewelry making workshops and they will have an on-site store that sells the jewelry, as well as various other art and products from the community (camel milk, goat milk, art, art supplies, alpaca produts, baked goods, etc.)

I will have a small bakery and possibly do cake-making workshops or at least rent out the equipment/space for others to do workshops in.

There will also be a Bed and Breakfast on site for artists to come and stay for a while and make use of the landscape for photography, painting, etc.

The idea is to be as self-sustaining and efficient as possible, to be eco-friendly, and to support budding artists and photographers of all kinds so they have a place to go and feel welcomed and inspired. And of course, living close to very good friends while still maintaining personal and private space.

Thoughts, ideas?

[Sarlon]

not a bad idea...and someplace temprete so the weather stays decent all year.

Grey water systems are a good investment on top of the solar and wind energy.

[LewisLegion]

Yeah, one of our friends mentioned the grey water system.

Right now we're looking at northernish California. I don't want to live in Cali but I can stand the north part of the state. Due to some of our health reasons somewhere blue and sunny and decently warm is a must. I threw out Arizona or New Mexico but seem to be mostly shot down right now. They all wanted Southern Cali but I so don't want to do that. We all hate Texas (ROFL) so we're still hashing location out.

[Sarlon]

Tennessee is pretty >.>

I live right in the mountains.

[Kanalah]

My family was planning on something like that for a while. We were going to have 40 acres of land, raise cattle and chickens, have a huge garden, a store and all kinds of other stuff.

Then this kerfluffle with my uncle being a deadbeat and a scammer happened and now we realize that we all hate each other.

EDIT: Although after thinking about it for a bit. If we did all live together, we'd learn really quick who does and doesn't pull thier own weight pretty quickly.

[Nurian]

Sounds like a great idea. A place for artists to collaborate and help each other grow.

[Frantic Freddie]

You'd better check the EPA regs on graywater,you're not allowed to use it on any edible plants or fruit trees.

If you're going to sell animal products & cooked/baked food you'll need the various licenses,processing equipment,etc...that the state & feds require.

Where will the water to grow your crops come from? If you have a well that's fine,but you'll need to know how many acre-feet per year you're allowed to use.If you buy it from a water system they may have a limit on how much you can use without incurring huge surcharges.

What kind of houses will you put up? Zoning laws & construction codes can be a nightmare to navigate unless one of your members is a licensed general contractor & even then it can be a huge hassle if you want to build something unconventional (rammed earth,straw bale,yurts,hogans,etc...)

How much land are you looking at? The more you buy the cheaper it gets,but you have to be aware of again,zoning,covenants,deed restrictions & any local ordinances.If you plan to drill a well,are there other wells in the area? How much do they produce? Wells can cost in the 10s of thousands. Is the land suitable for building or growing crops? You can easily build on solid rock but it makes a piss-poor farm. Conversely,rich soil that's good for plants might not be so good for homes in heavy rains,foundations sink & crack,possible flooding.

Waste disposal needs to be considered too,each house on it's own septic or a communal system? (not unusual but again,subject to the whims of the local gov't).No,you can't put it on your crops without an EPA approved treatment system,doesn't matter if you're selling them or not.

Power generation (wind/solar) is very expensive,aside from the solar panels & windmills you need power inverters & lots of big,heavy batteries that produce hydrogen,which as we all know from science class is highly explosive.You need power to run the well pump(s) or you have no water.

Not trying to bum you out,just pointing out a few of the hurdles you'll have to clear for such a project,I've been a Realtor in a rural area for a long time now & I see all these issues crop up.

I'd suggest getting some books on communes,I know there've been any number written but don't know any off the top of my head,as always,Google is your friend.

[telecom_goddess]

Freddie makes a valid point...but then again communes used to exist without a whole lot of trouble....I would definitely research that and look for the books.

One thing I've heard of lately is co housing, which sounds like what you are trying to create. There is a directory of them for my state here

[Frantic Freddie]

...but then again communes used to exist without a whole lot of trouble....

I'd be careful about making such a blanket statement,from what I've read even the famous ones had their issues,both internal & external.Very few of them exist anymore,that says something to me.

[LewisLegion]

You'd better check the EPA regs on graywater,you're not allowed to use it on any edible plants or fruit trees.

Understood. We're also doing rainwater reclamation, not sure what the EPA specs are on those but we have plenty of time to research

If you're going to sell animal products & cooked/baked food you'll need the various licenses,processing equipment,etc...that the state & feds require.

Absolutely, and we will have. We want to do it all right.

Where will the water to grow your crops come from? If you have a well that's fine,but you'll need to know how many acre-feet per year you're allowed to use.If you buy it from a water system they may have a limit on how much you can use without incurring huge surcharges.

Understood. That's where the well, water reclamation, grey water regs, etc. come in. We will hash out what is cleared for what and how to direct and make the most use of it.

What kind of houses will you put up? Zoning laws & construction codes can be a nightmare to navigate unless one of your members is a licensed general contractor & even then it can be a huge hassle if you want to build something unconventional (rammed earth,straw bale,yurts,hogans,etc...)

Nothing unconventional, at least that we've talked about. We've mostly discussed putting on pre-fab or modular housing (think quadrant homes). Modern, prebuilt, moved and installed on the land rather than stick-built on site.

How much land are you looking at? The more you buy the cheaper it gets,but you have to be aware of again,zoning,covenants,deed restrictions & any local ordinances.If you plan to drill a well,are there other wells in the area? How much do they produce? Wells can cost in the 10s of thousands. Is the land suitable for building or growing crops? You can easily build on solid rock but it makes a piss-poor farm. Conversely,rich soil that's good for plants might not be so good for homes in heavy rains,foundations sink & crack,possible flooding.

Obviously, we will have to choose our site carefully and make sure we research the local laws and zoning before making a final choice There has been talk of anything between 40 and a 100 acres. My personal preference is the bigger the better.

Waste disposal needs to be considered too,each house on it's own septic or a communal system? (not unusual but again,subject to the whims of the local gov't).No,you can't put it on your crops without an EPA approved treatment system,doesn't matter if you're selling them or not.

We were planning on each on its own septic system with its own stand alone solar power generators (and backup wind power that is connected to a communal generator/generators, depending on which turns out to be most realistic). Also it will have a tie back into the grid so any excess power we generate becomes a source of revenue.

Power generation (wind/solar) is very expensive,aside from the solar panels & windmills you need power inverters & lots of big,heavy batteries that produce hydrogen,which as we all know from science class is highly explosive.You need power to run the well pump(s) or you have no water.

All part of the research We know vaguely some of the cost, as I've been looking into solar and wind power for a while now.

Not trying to bum you out,just pointing out a few of the hurdles you'll have to clear for such a project,I've been a Realtor in a rural area for a long time now & I see all these issues crop up.

Not bumming me out at all. We're realistic enough to know the costs involved and this is soooo not going to be an overnight thing...probably not even a 'within the next five years' thing.

One thing in our favor is a large source of potential revenue is possibly dropping into my lap in the next few years in the form of a LOT of farmland...unfortunately it is in Montana, which is not conducive to our weather needs (alas) but it provides an opportunity at revenue generation both by leasing to other farmers and ranchers (which is what is being done with it now) as well as leasing it as a set to film-makers.

[Mikkel]

You might study Svanholm, a Danish commune that have existed for more than thirty years and are still continuing successfully.
There is a Wikipedia entry here.

They have worked through most of the difficulties you will meet, both internal and external.

[AriGriffin]

The Mountain to Western Piedmont area of North Carolina or Virginia may be a suitable location.
http://www.resales.usda.gov/ has lists of foreclosed farms, ranches, and lots.

[Blade_Raver]

Will it have broadband and Air Conditioning?

[Jester]

Two of our good friends will run a photography studio that will be open for use for other photographers to rent out, with special days where the studio is available for free to the general public to use.

Free? To the public? No good can come of that. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to helping out your fellow man, but when you start offering high-dollar equipment for use for free, there are going to be scumbags and douchebags that take advantage of that, and there is high potential for serious damage to that equipment. Offering it at a discounted rate (or even a normal commercial rate, but with the guidance of the photogs on premise) would, in my mind, be a more pragmatic way to go.

Yeah, one of our friends mentioned the grey water system.

Right now we're looking at northernish California. I don't want to live in Cali but I can stand the north part of the state. Due to some of our health reasons somewhere blue and sunny and decently warm is a must. I threw out Arizona or New Mexico but seem to be mostly shot down right now. They all wanted Southern Cali but I so don't want to do that. .

But Arizona is awesome! (Yeah, I'll admit it--I'm a shameless shill for my home state.)

Central California might be ideal for what you guys are looking for. It's agricultural, it's not near any major cities (Fresno and Bakersfield are hardly major cities), but it's still close enough to civilization to be workable. Probably somewhat more affordable land than So Cal, and decent weather to boot.

And while you don't want So Cal yourself, you might want to consider eastern So Cal. It's basically Arizona-type climate, sparsely populated, central between Phoenix and L.A., and probably cheap land as well.

Keep in mind, when I say "cheap land" I am merely guessing....I actually have no idea what land costs in either location I mentioned.

Other possibilities you might want to consider are southern Oregon, Colorado (very sunny, from what I've heard), perhaps even Utah. If you are not tied to the idea of being in the West, northern Florida might work for you--it is the antithesis of Miami. Or perhaps even Georgia or one of the Carolinas.

You'd better check...

For a lot of the regulations and rules, and how best to navigate through them, once you figure out your desired location, find yourself a lawyer familiar with the local laws and retain him for help with all this. It will cost you some bucks, but it will also make things move much faster than it would otherwise, and in the long run, it will help you save money from not knowing the red tape you have to go through.

Yes, I just recommended a lawyer. I also just recommended the Bakersfield area, something I never thought I'd do, so anything's possible!

Power generation (wind/solar) is very expensive.....

I know a guy here in town that has his house totally solar powered, and actually generates enough power that he sells excess back to the local electric company. If done right, solar power really can pay for itself. Although the initial setup is, as Freddie says, rather expensive.

I'd suggest getting some books on communes...

Also consider contacting a couple of communes to get their feedback on the pros and cons of what they did.

communes used to exist without a whole lot of trouble....

There used to be far less bureaucratic bullshit to deal with, also...

[telecom_goddess]

Jester....you just called Fresno and Bakersfield civilization .....I'm so disappointed .

I personally would not want to live in that area but that's me. Oregon probably has a ton of nice areas to choose from....and Washington too. The farther east you go the hotter and colder it can get in summer/winter....the Portland area is more wet and temperate in climate.