Infertility - could use some advice

[Jester]

Without going into deep detail, let's just say that right now she has a couple of (long term) medical issues affecting her fertility. These conditions can be managed and even improved eventually, but not eliminated.

...Now my wife and I are uncertain we'll ever be able to have kids. I come from a small family, I dearly want at least one biological child to keep the line going.

My wife's medical condition means if we did conceive she'd be at an increased risk of miscarriage or complication.

We've talked about adoption or fostering if we can't have kids on our own...but there's a part of me screaming that's just not the same.

Do me a favor. Go find someone who was raised as an adopted child. Ask them who their parents are. Betchya anything you want to bet that they immediately indicate their adoptive parents, not their birth parents. Keep finding adopted kids, and keep asking them that. You'll keep getting the same answer.

Now go find some parents who have adopted. Ask them who their children are. You'll see an amazingly similar response.

Parenthood is not just about biology or genetics, it is about raising someone with love and care, helping them find their way in this world.

My favorite niece, who calls herself my favorite niece and who views me as her uncle, is not in any way related to me biologically. But you better DAMN well believe that she is my fucking niece, and I will challenge anyone to say otherwise in my presence and retain the full use of their limbs. Another (non-biological) niece of mine just gave birth to her son. And yes, you better DAMN well believe that boy is my great nephew, biology and genetics be damned. If anyone were to ever mess with or harm any of my nieces (none of them biologically related to me) or my great nephew in any way, you also better damn well believe they would get the full and undiluted wrath of me coming down on their heads like flaming bricks dropped from the skies.

(Note: I was interrupted while typing this post by a call from my niece Dragon. She was calling, among other reasons, to let me know she is applying to a university and an art school, and she is telling me this not just to be conversational, but because as a gift for both her 17th and just passed 18th birthdays, I am paying the application fees for ALL the schools she applies at. Since she is, after all, MY NIECE.)

Family can be chose, and oftentimes, it is better when it is. I am far closer to my friend Neets than I ever have been with either of my sisters. Hell, I am closer to my stepsister than I am to either of my sisters. My stepsister, who has been battling whatever the hell she is battling, has been in a care facility for almost a year now, after having been in a catatonic coma for months. The doctors said that for her to regain any meaningful brain function would take, and I quote, "a miracle." And on Father's Day, she started speaking. Most of you who are regulars on this site are familiar with that story, and I mention it not to rehash it or to elicit any sympathy, but for this purpose: when my parents (Mom and Stepdad) were showing my stepsister pictures of various family members, and asking her who they were, when shown pictures of my sisters and myself, she used the words "sister" and "brother." Not stepsister or stepbrother, but sister and brother. Why? Because, that is what we are to her.

"Keep the line going"? If your family is a loving and caring one, then keep that going by adopting someone who could desperately use a home. If you believe in a higher power, have you considered that your and your wife's inability to conceive might be a sign or a message from said higher power that you should reach out into the world and find your child another way, say in the form of a child that doesn't have a home, but desperately needs one?

I can't actually speak for your higher power, if you have one, but it is something you may want to consider. Family is not just about biology and genetics. It is about caring and love and them knowing that no matter what else happens, you'll be there for them.

Remember that.

[flybye023]

I wasn't going to post because I don't have children but I read a post in another forum that I think is relevant.

The question there was: "If you found out that the child you had been raising for however long had been switched at the hospital with someone else's, would you want "your" child back?" A surprising amount of posters there said "No. Way. I would want to have a relationship with the biological child, but this child who has been in my home is mine."

I found it very interesting that in their minds nurture very much trumped nature. Just something to think on.

[Cookie]

Ok, a great book about fertility is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-...8904234&sr=8-1

It addresses the natural fertility tracking that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I've used it successfully for over 2 years to NOT get pregnant. It addresses the science behind it before it goes into actual fertility issues and some things that are helpful to know before seeking treatment as well as some things you might try before expensive treatments. Of course, and the book recognizes this too, sometimes the treatments are needed to achieve pregnancy, but the goal is to go into those decisions educated on the topic.

I've never addressed fertility issues myself, but I do know this book made me feel like I had a much better handle on this kind of thing. Perhaps there could be some helpful information in there.

[Mytical]

Jester has put my thoughts down..and as usual did a much better job at it then I could ever hope to do. If you can not have a child, and want a child, there are millions of children out there that would be very happy to have a loving home.

I do want to quote my favorite part of Jesters post.

Family is not just about biology and genetics. It is about caring and love and them knowing that no matter what else happens, you'll be there for them.

[ArcticChicken]

Family is not just about biology and genetics. It is about caring and love and them knowing that no matter what else happens, you'll be there for them.

QFT

Family line is more than genetics. I'm having trouble putting this exactly into words, but let me try this: My grandfather was a codebreaker in WWII. I proud of that, and I couldn't be prouder even if I was genetically related to him. My mom was adopted, and she doesn't know anything about her bio-parents. I don't care who they are, or what they did in the past. Their history isn't mine. I wouldn't be proud if I found out they were heroes, or ashamed if I found out they were villains. My history is that of they Russian Jewish family that immigrated to the US in 1904, my grandfather, youngest of 14, military codebreaker and a smuggler, my grandmother, a wickedly smart woman who (legend has it) turned down a career in the CIA to raise her children. Those are my family.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have biological children. What I'm saying is that, should you choose to adopt, those children will be as much yours as a biological child would have been, in all the ways that (I think) matter.

[flybye023]

I second what Arctic Chicken says. My grandfather was adopted. I never knew him because he died when my dad was a teen. I know nothing about my grandpa's bio family nor do I care. Most of the family feels this way--only one aunt has ever tried to find them. My family history is the one my grandpa was adopted into.

[Cat]

As an adoptee....my parents are indeed MY parents. I am *their last name* not *whatevermybiodadsnamewas* I share their history.


Best of luck in what you decide to do.

[Seshat]

I was a biokid of my parents. My best friend growing up was the adoptive kid of her parents, and had two biokid brothers.

My best friend is now not only her (adoptive) mother's daughter, but my mother's 'daughter' as well. In fact, she's closer to my (bio) mother than I am.

Personality matches matter more than biology, based on my experience.

[Teysa]

My grandpa on my mom's side was adopted by his step-dad. In fact, most of my family on my mom's side is made up of steps and halves and no blood relation whatsoever. That doesn't make them any less family. Mind you there are only a few people on that side of the family I actually like, but they're still family.

On my dad's side I have seven nieces and nephews. Only one, my sister's son, is related by blood. The other six are my two stepsister's kids. I don't care about the steps any less.

[Moirae]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I can't think of a way to say it so that it may just sound nice but, you really need to calm down.

The more you both freak out about it, the more stressed you will both get, and the LESS likely you are to get pregnant.

As it is, she may be feeling the pressure from you to get pregnant no matter what and it may be making her less likely to get pregnant as well. And less likely to even want to get pregnant.

The next thing is that she is only 28 years old. I'm 35 and still don't have kids. I actually don't think I can have kids because my first husband and I tried for two years and couldn't, though that could be several things including the immense amount of stress I was under at the time (long story). I'm actually personally fine with that since I'm not a mommy type of person, though I do feel the old biological clock ticking occasionally.

She's only 28. Most women don't enter menopause until they are in their 50's. Even with health issues, she still has at least 12 years to get pregnant unless she has her uterus removed or its nothing but scar tissue, and even then there's still the possibility of surrogates.

So please try to calm down. You are making it worse by freaking out. No, I'm not saying that you should stop trying, but there are methods. Like invitro.

One thing that you should accept though is that it may never happen. Don't wrap your life around this one thing. Remember that you being with each other and happy is at least as important as a child. And thats ok.

Other people have said everything else that needs to be said so I'll leave it there.

One thing, it takes more to be a parent than it does to make a child. And my stepdad, who has no genetics in common with me whatsoever, is someone that I wish was my real dad. He treats me better than my biological dad every did and I can always count on him no matter what. THAT is a dad. Whether we share genetics doesn't matter in the least.

[Seshat]

You mentioned that you wanted a biokid 'to continue your line'. What other reasons do you have for wanting children?

You don't have to tell us. But you do have to tell yourself, and your wife. And one day, your children will grade you on them. Not in words, but in who they become.


I personally believe that there is only one reason a person, any person, should become a parent. And that reason is that they desperately, totally long for the troubles and joys that come from taking an infant, and helping them become a happy, functional, adult. Or, if genetics or accident preclude that, helping them become happy, and as functional and adult as their bodies & brains permit.


Take this as an opportunity to pause and really think about everything that's involved. Emotional. Intellectual. Physical. Fiscal. Is this what you want to do with your life? Are you prepared to have a disabled child? A child whose personality and preferences are totally opposite yours?
Would it bother you if the child turned out gay? Transgender? What if they took off immediately they turned eighteen and spent ten years working for Medicins Sans Frontiers and you didn't see them for a decade - just got regular postcards from some desperately squalid place?

Think about it.

Then act on your decision.

[Jester]

I've said my piece about adoption, so I won't continue on that. But I did feel the need to add a couple of things unrelated to that particular line of thought.

The next thing is that she is only 28 years old. I'm 35 and still don't have kids.

My sisters and I are children of parents who waited until they were in their 30's to have any of us. They were married for nine years before they had my oldest sister. This was in the Fifties and Sixties, when such a thing was not the norm.

When my oldest sister was born, my mother was 30, approaching 31. My father was 33.
When I was born, my mother was 34, approaching 35, My father was 37.
When my little sister was born, my mother was 36. My father was 38, approaching 39.

Continuing that particular point, when my stepbrother was born, my stepfather was 37.
When my stepsister was born, my stepfather was 40.
(I don't know how old their mother was (I only ever met her once, and very briefly at that), but I believe she was around the same age as my mom, dad, and stepdad, all born between 1931 and 1935.)

One thing, it takes more to be a parent than it does to make a child. And my stepdad, who has no genetics in common with me whatsoever, is someone that I...can always count on...no matter what. THAT is a dad. Whether we share genetics doesn't matter in the least.

My stepfather is an awesome guy. He never tried to replace my father, never tried to be my father, and in the process, he became my third parent, and I love him as much as my mother or father. I feel blessed that I have had three wonderful parents, and that I still have two of them around to continue to bless me. The fact that the third one didn't come into my life until my teenage years and is in no way biologically related to me has no bearing on that.

Are you prepared to have a disabled child?

I know people with special needs children, and people with disabled children.

One person in particular, the younger sister of my best friend, has two children, both extremely disabled, and either one (or both, I can't remember which) is not expected to live much beyond their tenth birthday or so. This despite the fact that, as far as they know, neither of the parents had any medical condition that would have predicted such birth defects.

The fact that there are medical conditions involved in your case makes this even more poignant. Are you and your wife ready emotionally and financially to deal with such a situation, which can be quite exhausting, in both of the above ways and others?

More bluntly, don't you think that if you know such medical conditions exist and yet you continued to push for a pregnancy "to continue the family line," that that would be utterly selfish of the two of you?

These are things to consider.

Consider them. Consider them well.

[Moirae]

Yeah, my stepdad is a really great guy. I've said it many times... I wish he was my biological dad. He's a better man than my father can ever hope of being, right down to being a former Major in the Canadian army (he was shot in the arm in the first Gulf war, as well as being in Cypress and a bunch of other places). He treats us like gold.

You'd never know that my sister and I aren't related to him by blood. My nephew calls him papa because he loves him so much, while he calls my dad grandpa. Papa plays games with him, takes him to the park, decorates the house for Christmas with him, etc. Grandpa plays ball with him sometimes and thats about it (my dad used to love baseball before he got arthritis). Papa is a great influence on my nephew and I think he and my sister (nephews mom) are the biggest reasons my nephew has won the classroom citizenship award four years in a row and that he has always had all A's and B's. Knowing how much of a jerk my dad is, its really fascinating to see what a good dad, or a good papa, actually can do for a child as I watch how my nephew absorbs everything he says and does, then copies him by being just as good a person as he is. Because of their influence, my nephew decided that he wanted to donate all the money in his piggy bank to buy toys for children in need. And my nephew is only 8. My nephew isn't adopted, but I guess you could say my stepdad is. By us. We lost my mom in 2003, and none of us could imagine life without my stepdad in it. It used to be "What would mom think". Now its "what will my stepdad think" when we make decisions, and my sister, my nephew and I often consult him before making any final decisions in our lives because we respect him that much.

The people that mean the most in a childs life are the people that raised the child. Biology is important (in that its what created the child), yes, but not nearly as much as a good loving parent. Biology comes a far second.

Please don't limit yourself to only being willing to give birth to a child. There are lots of children out there that desperately need good loving parents.

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

Ok, let me address a few questions this discussion has brought up:

1. I want a child not ONLY to continue the family line, but because I want the opportunity to love and nurture and raise a human being who will do great things in the world. I want to raise a child in a stable, loving family and do all the "dad things" that guys do. To put it simply, I want (we want) a child for the right reasons.

2. I understand an adopted child can be loved as much as a biological child, I am sorry if I came across as implying it didn't. I realize an adopted child can be just as much a product of its parents as a biological child can.

3. My wife and I aren't exactly freaking out about this, but it is something we discuss routinely. When you're the only ones in your group of married friends who do not have kids yet, these types of issues tend to come up.

Thank you for all your advice and input.

[Jester]

I understand an adopted child can be loved as much as a biological child, I am sorry if I came across as implying it didn't. I realize an adopted child can be just as much a product of its parents as a biological child can.

If the parents are loving and caring and nurturing, the word "can" is replaced by the shorter yet far more powerful word "is."