The Doctor Said I'm Gonna Die. So...Who Wants a Beer?

[Jester]

Yeah, this is a tough one. In a nutshell, the ratio determines your risk for cardiovascular disease. The higher the ratio, the higher the risk. In your case, the ratio is high because your LDL is too low.

You got them confused. My LDL is too high, my HDL is too low.

I'm glad you corrected him. Hopefully Dr. Mike brought it up again as well. You can't ever make assumptions as to someones religion based on their name or where they live any more, especially in the United States as it becomes increasingly secular. The way Young Doctor put it came across to me as an admonition, "well if you just followed your faith you wouldn't have this problem."

Nope, Doc Mike was right there with the guy on that. But they weren't being preachy. It's simply true that a kosher diet would eliminate many (though not all) of the foods they didn't want me eating. Although Doc Mike DID say ham was fine, just not bacon.

And I don't know that there's any evidence that kosher or halal diets in particular are healthy

Not healthy in and of itself, just restrictive of foods the doctors said I shouldn't have.

BUT! It's more than just how you live. It's how WELL you live. Odds are, with today's medical technology, the heart attack or stroke you are setting yourself up for won't kill you outright.

But they may disable you, and make it difficult or impossible for you to do things you normally enjoy very much.

Pleasant thought. Thing is, though, I may not be setting myself up for a heart attack. I am merely increasing the odds of having one. There is no guarantee that I will have one on my current diet, or conversely, that I wouldn't have one on a different diet.

I'm 46. I've eaten a high sugar, high fat, high meat diet most of my adult life. I'm paying the price now

That's the thing, though....my diet is definitely not high sugar, not all that high fat in total, and not all that high meat, as I eat a lot of produce and seafood. As I said in the OP, my diet is far healthier than the vast majority of people I know.

Well, in defense of Dr. Mike, it was the guy he was training, not Dr. Mike who made that faux pas.

Nope, as I said above, Doc Mike was right there with him. No biggie. They were really only trying to help, and for that I can't blame them.

[BlaqueKatt]

and Doc Mike told me to cut down on the oils, since oil is basically fat.

Oil is fat, but humans need about 25% of their calories from fat, FAT is not bad, if it's the right kind of fat.

Pistachios have sterols which raise HDL, and everyone but me loves those things(can't stand them).

Also yeah I agree with the "who's to say I won't have a stroke even if I do change my diet" living, existing, and surviving are very different things, you have to pick the one you're ok with.

[Jester]

I know this is oversimplifying things, and I know I have exactly zero medical training, but I can't get away from the idea that, if my cholesterol levels are so bad, why is my blood pressure so damn perfect? Isn't it the basic theory that high cholesterol (or in my case scarily low good cholesterol) causes plaque buildup within the arteries, thus restricting blood flow and eventually potentially a stoppage, and thus potentially a heart attack or stroke? And yet, other than the lab results for my cholesterol levels, I am pretty much the poster boy for a healthy 40something.

One thing that I have noticed is that my doctor focused on the completely out of whack ratio, but several of the articles I've read, including ones linked to by some of you (thank you for that) come right out and say that the ratio is not as important as the total cholesterol level. My total cholesterol level was high, but not as out of whack as my ratio (only 210, whereas it's considered good if it's 200 or below).

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

Jester, speaking from experience cutting out foods you like to eat is hard but the benefits are undeniable.

At the start of the year, I undertook a religiously motivated fast. I was on what's known as a Daniel fast. The rules are somewhat flexible, but the basic rules are these:

- No leavened bread
- No meats
- No dairy
- No processed food
- No sweets/desserts

So you must eat:

- Fruits
- Vegetables
- Nuts
- Non-leavened bread

While I was fasting, I actually felt pretty awesome as far as health was concerned. Interestingly, I just happened to have a physical during this time and have blood work done. The results came back and all my levels including cholesterol were excellent. My cholesterol was in fact LOWER than when I last had it checked. I was most worried about it because high cholesterol runs in the family.

There's a good chance you will be able to find reasonable alternatives for many of the foods you like to eat now (except bacon, unfortunately there are no good substitutes for bacon as far as I'm aware).

Since your requirements are nowhere near as restrictive as mine were on the fast I think you'll actually do pretty well with it.

I don't know about the cholesterol/blood pressure connection, but a couple of years ago when giving blood I had both taken. My cholesterol was 195 (a little high which surprised me) but my BP was something like 128/74. Go figure.

[Jester]

I don't deny that there are probably health benefits. And as I said, I will probably modify my diet somewhat. But in my head I've been listing all the things that, if I followed Doc Mike's strict edict, I would not be having. On the list are such things as pizza (too much cheese, way too much fat when I get the meat version), buffalo wings, all but one of the salad dressings I like (and that last one is available only at my bar), burgers, anything with bacon, which includes my award-winning chili, most meat chilis in general, pretty much every Mexican dish ever, two of the best soups I've ever had (cream-based), most Italian cuisine, steaks (which I don't even eat that often, but like occasionally), most barbecue dishes, cereal (not that I eat a lot of it, or even unhealthy cereal, but to eat it with skim milk would make me nauseated), and so on and so forth. More keep popping into my head every day.

As I said, there are probably some health benefits to it, although the jury may be out on even that. (See the articles BlaqueKatt linked to.) But to what end? A foodie who doesn't enjoy his food is going to be miserable. A drinker who only has two drinks a day EVER is going to be miserable. Maybe not all of them, but *I8 would.

Again, to what end? So I can be miserable for more years on this planet rather than be happy for less years? At some point, as I said, you have to weigh quality of life against these factors. I am far damn happier in my life, even with all of the crap I have to deal with in it, than most of the people I know or encounter. I enjoy my life immensely. I am not going to give that up. It is Not Going To Happen.

Adjust my diet somewhat? Sure. I can do that. I might even DO that. But to follow the blanket ultimatum of my doctor so I can live to a ripe old age of misery?

Screw that. Wings and beer on me, kids!

[BlaqueKatt]

I know this is oversimplifying things, and I know I have exactly zero medical training, but I can't get away from the idea that, if my cholesterol levels are so bad, why is my blood pressure so damn perfect? Isn't it the basic theory that high cholesterol (or in my case scarily low good cholesterol) causes plaque buildup within the arteries, thus restricting blood flow and eventually potentially a stoppage, and thus potentially a heart attack or stroke? And yet, other than the lab results for my cholesterol levels, I am pretty much the poster boy for a healthy 40something.

it's pretty much the junk CAN clog the pipes(high triglycerides make it more likely to do so), as without the HDL cleaning it out, it just kinda sits there...eventually forms plaque which may collect calcium and narrow the arteries, resulting in hypertension.

It's not a direct high cholesterol=plaque=hypertension, more of a high cholesterol over time, usually causes plaque which over time will lead to hypertension. You may develop it next week, or never. It's certainly more probable that it will eventually become an issue if your LDL cholesterol stays high and HDL stays low, but there is currently no 100% accurate way of telling. And things like cycling make your heart very efficient and cause your blood pressure to be lower(mine is almost dangerously so-normal for me is around 80/60). It's very possible your other lifestyle choices are offsetting some of the potential issues right now, but not being a physician that has examined you, I honestly don't know.

to use one of my famous car analogies:
If you don't change your oil, the car isn't going to break down at 3000 miles, but eventually it's likely to have issues, maybe after 30,000 or 50,000 or more, depending on the car and the engine. It may never have problems, or it might, you never know, so a lot of people do the ever 3,000-5,000 mile oil changes, heck my stepdad changed the oil in his cars once a year-most of them lasted around 5-7 years(they were usually at least 10 years old when he got them), and what went out usually had nothing to do with the oil, but sometimes it did, didn't matter he still only did once a year oil changes.

And here's a few more things to read if you're bored(caveat-I have not double checked the research)

the great cholesterol myth
dangers of lowering cholesterol
higher cholesterol may not be as bad as it's portrayed
And tangerines may protect against hypertention(mouse study)

[Jester]

Thank you for not only putting it in plain English, which I understood, but also in a car analogy, which is something I use a lot. Even in cases where car analogies make no sense. This one very much did.

So it seems my body's natural HDL-maker is the equivalent of a Triumph's electrical system, huh?

[Android Kaeli]

Do you enjoy corn tortillas? 'Cause if you like them, I have a recipe for pizza using them that's surprisingly good considering how small these things can come packaged. *shifty eyes* Hey, it's pizza and considering I can't really enjoy a good piece of pizza anymore, it's better then nothing.

The thing I really don't like about doctors -- outside of waiting time -- is that they'll give you something that you MUST do with dieting but really don't factor in a lot of other things. My doctor wanted me to go on a low calorie diet, which is fine in itself but she wanted me to only eat no more then 750 calories a day. That lasted all of a week, 'cause there was no way in hell I would be able to keep THAT up long term.

I said screw it, gained more weight......then my roommate had to lose weight or stay on her current meds. Her doctor told her to go on a low carb diet, roommate said we're both doing it together. It's manageable in a sense that while I need to eat less then 80 carbs a day, I still have full range of what I CAN still eat.

I CAN still enjoy pasta and breads -- which, in the low carb diet world, is a big no no -- but not as much as I used to eat. French fries, bacon, eggs, etc are in moderation but I can still have them. Yes it's hard to walk by the bread aisle and not pick up the different breads there, or make a pot of mac and cheese and eat the whole thing. But the beauty of having it once every other week is that I look forwards to those yummy treats.

[Jester]

Oh, the waiting time. It was ridiculous. Of my three different days in there (Monday for the general checkup, Tuesday for the drawing of the blood, Wednesday for the results of the blood work), the one day where they weren't actually doing anything but TALKING to me had the longest wait time. Two hours of waiting just to get a 10-15 minute talk. I had to rush home afterwards, wolf down a sandwich, and rush off to my second Wednesday job.

Another problem with this whole thing is what to tell Mom. I don't like lying to her, but no good can come of my telling her my cholesterol levels or what the doctor told me. I often tell people that I only lie to my mother and the government, and I am thinking this would be a good time to gloss over the whole truth, and only tell her the partial truth, i.e., how I am "obnoxiously" healthy, all my vitals are great, and my kidneys and liver are superb. Just don't know what to say if she actually asks me about the cholesterol. Ugh.

[trailerparkmedic]

You know, a heart attack might not kill you. One of my patients had a heart attack in front of me and he walked out of the hospital a few days later.

A heart attack without insurance WILL bankrupt you. You'll have an ambulance ride, a stay in the most expensive ER room (our expensive rooms cost thousands of dollars to ENTER), a very expensive procedure in the cardiac cath lab, and a stay on specialized (read: expensive) hospital floors.

Yes, it sucks to make life changes, but maybe this will help with the motivation.

[fireheart]

Screw that. Wings and beer on me, kids!

Who the hell are you calling kids?!

I'm old enough to drink thank you! (both in Australia AND overseas)

[bhskittykatt]

Sounds like you're eating a fairly balanced diet, with all things in moderation. The only other thing I could think of would be to make sure you're getting enough of the right micronutrients (calcium, iodine, etc) that can help keep cholesterol levels under control.

It would be nice if doctors had more education in nutrition science, but most of the time they don't. If you're concerned, a dietician who is specialized in that field can help.

When I last went to the doctor, she mentioned my high BMI and gave me a handout, but didn't give me any ultimatums. I mentioned how I'd been working on weight loss (I'm down 100lbs from when I started) and what I'd been doing. She nodded and said that was good. If I'd had any real concerns, though, I'd probably have had to see a dietician.

The thing I really don't like about doctors -- outside of waiting time -- is that they'll give you something that you MUST do with dieting but really don't factor in a lot of other things. My doctor wanted me to go on a low calorie diet, which is fine in itself but she wanted me to only eat no more then 750 calories a day. That lasted all of a week, 'cause there was no way in hell I would be able to keep THAT up long term.

What is your doctor smoking? I don't know any reputable physician who would recommend less than 1200 cal/day, and that's the low end of the scale. 750 cal/day is a starvation diet! (ftr, I lost my weight on 1500-1700 cal/day.)

[ParkingWitch]

Two very simple things that have greatly helped with Mom's cholesterol; fish oil tablets and a daily bowl of oatmeal. They have brought her down to very near perfect which is a good thing and every one of the statin drugs that have been tried cause her horrible leg cramps.

[Mytical]

Not sure if it is true or not but read that under 1200 cals/day for females and 1800 cals/day for males the body will use muscle instead of stored fat..so not a good idea. IF that is true that is. That is for the average male/female also so smaller then normal males/females would have lower minimums and larger would have more.

Jester your right, can't let fear rule your life. Sometimes docs have no clue. lol if they had been correct I would have been gone over 15 years ago. Just don't take any health advise from me..I am a wreck

[MystyGlyttyr]

Personally (and I must preface this by repeating once again that I despise doctors almost as a rule...I know there are a few good ones out there but I've never met any), the whole thing with cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc., seems more like freaking voodoo to me than anything.

Take my mom. Died of a heart attack that was basically "BOOM" and gone. Her heart had been in bad shape for years, they diagnosed her with congestive heart failure when I was a teenager and told her she had basically a year to live, and she plugged along for another decade after that. Ate well, active as she could be, etc. Her health was otherwise as good as a woman with one functioning kidney (since an idiot surgeon cut a healthy one out of her) could be.

Then take my sister. Six inches shorter and a hundred pounds heavier than my mom. Pretty much lives on cream cheese and sunflower seeds. Doesn't exercise at all unless I just get behind her and push. Yet all her tests confirm she might possibly be the healthiest person in our family. They try to tell her that her blood sugar is high to the point where she's risking developing diabetes, so I put her on a low-sugar diet, plenty of fresh veggies and only the relatively low-sugar fruits, lots of protein, blah blah, and we bought her a blood sugar tester. According to that thing, her blood sugar was constantly too LOW. Testing with TWO meters, she had to eat two ice cream cones and chug an entire bottle of coke before it even would spike anywhere in the range of normal. So now I'm just trying to feed her "basically healthy diet" and making her go outside and play with me a few times a week.

So far as me, they can't even figure out what the fuck my deal is, because every medicine they give me has exactly the opposite effect it should. Sleeping pills make me wired and hallucinatory, caffeine makes me groggy, dairy products SETTLE my upset stomach, pain meds don't make the pain stop-they just make me quit caring about it so much, and my pulse consistently runs at about 100 beats per minute even though they swear with my level of activity that should be impossible and I should have dropped dead from it years ago. (And again, otherwise I'm like you, obnoxiously healthy.)

So...honestly, I just don't even bother with doctors anymore unless it's like "hey, my arm's turned into a blood fountain, I should get that looked at."