The Greatest Thing I've Ever Attempted...

[Dilorenzo]

My daughter, if you will.

Will and are.

"No, you didn't. It's far worse than that. You had your friend hit on a 12 year old for you. That's far more pathetic."

Y'know, I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life. But now I finally have something to look at and go "well, gee whiz, at least I didn't do THAT.

[Jester]

Semi-update....

After thinking long and hard about what I told them, my mom and stepdad sent me a long email reply to the long email I had sent them explaining all of this. Predictably, it was similar to what many of my friends had said, i.e., you two know this relationship exists, why go through all the hassle and red tape of making it legal?

I haven't gotten back to them on this yet, but the short answer is pretty simple: Because we want to.

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I have a telephone consultation with a lawyer scheduled for next week.

Also, I talked to my friend who is a lawyer, though she is not overly knowledgeable about Florida law in general or family law in particular. That being said, I often forget what a freakin' genius she is (she really is), and she had a lot of thoughts on the subject, several things I hadn't thought of, and asked me to send her the details, and she would do a little research. Bless her, she is adamant that I should be able to do this without laying out major dollarage to a lawyer. (We've been friends since my first high school, so about 1985 or so.....) She made it sound a lot easier than I think it's gonna be, but she also did say it won't be quick or simple.

That being said, talking to her actually changed my thought process quite a bit, and I went from thinking "this is a definite possibility" to "this probably WILL happen." Pretty damn good feeling to have.

[Andara Bledin]

You're making it legal so that you enjoy the protections that legal status gives you both.

At the very least, hospital visitation rights, which we all hope you never need but realistically will probably happen at some point.

^-.-^

[Jester]

My parents' comment got me thinking, on many levels.

So I am going to ask you folks to turn on me.

And I mean really turn on me.

I want you, whether you think this is the right thing to do or the wrong thing, to come up with every possible thing you can think of that you or someone else might say is a reason for Dragon and I NOT to do this.

This is not, mind you, an exercise in masochism. Rather, this is something that Dragon and I WILL have to face, for various reasons, and may even have to face legally, IN COURT, as in essence we are going to be challenging Florida law, and we have to be prepared for Florida to defend itself from our challenge.

So please, do me a favor, and attack this idea, show what is wrong with it, explain to the best of your ability why this should not be allowed to happen.

No one will be attacked, rebuffed, chided, derided, belittled, or in any other way made a fool of, as I am asking...no, BEGGING you to do this. Dragon and I have to be ready for what may face us in court, and to do so, we need to have considered and dealt with every potential and conceivable angle. And I have no doubt that you folks can do that.

So, in the words of Ms. Benatar, please....hit me with your best shot.

Fire away.

[AccountingDrone]

You are doing it just to get access to a nubile young just barely legal cutie. Classic Ward pressured to get into an abusive situation <but you need a really good waxed handlebar moustache for that, and maybe a railroad trestle and train, or a lumber mill with huge saw>

[Jester]

Semi-update...had an amusing text conversation with Dragon last night, after I came out of my drunken Fourth stupor and came back to life around 3:30 am. It being a holiday and 2:30 am her time, I knew she'd be up. (And if she wasn't, she wouldn't have texted me back.) The following is pretty much verbatim:

JESTER: I see I called you yesterday evening. Did we talk, or did I get your voice mail?
DRAGON: Yes we talked lol. I was supposed to call back this evening but I've been kinda busy with pool stuff and drinking and smoking. Great fourth of july. c:
JESTER: Oh good lord. How drunk was I?
DRAGON: Pretty drunk I'd say.
JESTER: Great. Some role model I am. Lol!
DRAGON: Lol the best one I've got.
JESTER: Scary thought.
DRAGON: Lmao nah you're awesome and you know it.
JESTER: Meh.
DRAGON: Meh my fucking ass we went skydiving together motherfucker. And went and had some goddamn sushi and went out drinking. You gave me my first hangover. And all the day before my graduation. And you've been there for me since I was 6, guiding me and teaching me and helping make me a better and wiser person. Fuck you if you say you aren't a good role model lol
JESTER: Lol. The meh was more for my current hangover. But thanks!

Of course, one could argue that some of what she said could prove I'm NOT the best role model, but anyone who thinks an 18 year old is not going to smoke and drink is just not being realistic. That being said, I have attempted to battle part of that, as I've told her if she gives up smoking for a year, I will buy her next skydive. Huge incentive for her, but as yet, she has not quit. I can keep hoping.

On another front, I am hoping some more of you can point out what some people might think is the problem with this whole adoption, or why we should not go through with, as my parents and some of my friends think. Even if you don't believe it, if this has a chance of succeeding, I have to be prepared for as many contingencies as possible. Also, I have told Dragon to really take some time and think about this, do some research on it, find some negatives about it, and make certain that this is what she really wants, and that she is not doing it simply because I want it. I don't think that's the case, but I want her to be 100% on this.

One thing a friend did suggest in the way of what someone might say was that this is "nothing more than an opportunistic grab for drama and attention at the expense of your intended daughter." I addressed that with her, but felt the need to address it here as well.

First of all, not that many people know about it (some friends, not all, and my parents, and that's about it...no coworkers, for example). I have not been screaming from the hilltops about this. As much as I DO enjoy the limelight as a performer, I would love nothing more than for this to go quietly and unnoticed through the court system. I am not championing anything, as our situation is not exactly standard, and I don't expect there would be many more like it. Am I prepared to challenge state laws and court rulings? Yes. Am I prepared to endure a media circus to win? No. My absolute first priority is and always will be Dragon's well being, and if ensuring that well being means dropping this, than I would drop it like an anvil.

"But Jester, you say you don't want attention, and you told an entire website." True. I was sharing news in my life with people I consider my friends. More importantly, though, how many people in here know who Dragon and I are?" This site is anonymous, I use pseudonyms constantly, and while a few people in here are privy to a bit more information, this is hardly what I would call chasing the limelight. Some may disagree with that, but it's the way I see it.

(My apologies if I've repeated anything I've said before....sometimes I forget what I said, and to whom, and when!)

[Mytical]

Jester..can I be Frank? Good. I always call it like I see it, suffer from foot in the mouth disease, and will never say something I don't mean (even if I am wrong, at the time it is what I believe to be correct). Now that we have that established, here goes.

I've read everything you've said in this thread about this. I've listened to it, gave it consideration, and even made a comment about it earlier. Not once, in that whole time, have I thought "This is just Jester trying for an attention grab." Not once, have I even thought "He is only doing this for himself." Are you doing it for you? Absolutely.

"But Frank," you might ask, "Doesn't that mean I am doing it selfishly?"

No..because you are also doing it for somebody else. You are taking into consideration what is best for them, not just you. You are putting it out there for people to point out what might go wrong. What can go wrong. What will go wrong..and so far the only thing I personally can see is some odd looks. But honestly, Jester, do you really care if you get odd looks? I don't think you do, or you are not half the man I think you are.

So..yeah..you are doing it for yourself..but you are not only considering what it will mean to JUST you. You are also doing it for her, and considering what it will do to/for her. So repeat after me.

"I am not just going for an attention grab, and those who think otherwise can kiss my left buttcheek and make my right one jealous."

Jester, I think what you are doing is one of the most admirable things I've ever heard of. Any man can be a father..all it takes is a genetic contribution...but not every man can be a DAD. My hat is off to you, now go be the best Dad you can be.


Disclaimer - My name is not really Frank..just for you who might wonder.

[Jester]

Jester..can I be Frank?

I dunno...Frank might object. Especially if you wear his good boots.

Good. I always call it like I see it, suffer from foot in the mouth disease, and will never say something I don't mean (even if I am wrong, at the time it is what I believe to be correct).

As you might imagine, I respect that. Since, ya know, I am pretty much the exact same.

" Are you doing it for you? Absolutely.

"But Frank," you might ask, "Doesn't that mean I am doing it selfishly?"

No..because you are also doing it for somebody else.

You are both right and wrong. I am doing it for someone else, but I am also doing it for me, and that does make it, at least partly, selfish. Is it selfish at the expense of the other parties involved? No. But there is some selfishness involved. I am doing this, at least partly, because I want to. Of course, that is only part of it, and when the other parts are taken into account (Dragon wants it, and her mother supports it), it is plain that it is not just selfish.

But honestly, Jester, do you really care if you get odd looks?

Not since about 1987, no.

I don't think you do, or you are not half the man I think you are.

Well, I am short....

So repeat after me.

"I am not just going for an attention grab, and those who think otherwise can kiss my left buttcheek and make my right one jealous."

Um, no. I won't say that. What I will say is that those who think otherwise can kiss my ENTIRE ass, and while they're at it, they can suck the toejam from my feet. I tend to be a bit more blunt than you, "Frank." Sort of like the face of a cliff is a bit more blunt than a dagger.

But yeah, *I* know that this is not an attention grab. But considering my personality, and my history, and my nature, it is not that much of a stretch to see why some people would think that. I am an attention whore. Always have been. That is no secret, and not something I deny or shy away from. But in this case, nothing could be further from the truth. That being said, I am very thankful to my friend from raising that point, which no one else had, as it is potentially something that could be raised in opposition to the proposed adoption.

My hat is off to you...

Is it with Frank's boots? For that matter, is that Frank's hat?

(Seriously, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate that, and have trouble accepting compliments as strong as yours, so I tend to duck behind Humor. Which is annoying to Humor, as it was minding its own damn business.)

Disclaimer - My name is not really Frank..just for you who might wonder.

I am sure Frank is relieved. But he is asking about his boots....and his hat.

[Jester]

So at work the other day, while setting up, the Harry Chapin song "Cat's in the Cradle" came on, and it got me thinking. A lot.

This has always been a song near and dear to my heart, not because I grew up "just like him" (my dad), but because I never really knew if I did or not, as he died when I was 10.

That is not the point I am making here, though. It is just what got me thinking.

Specifically, I grew up with a father, at least for the first part of my childhood, but never really had a father as an adult, or not my father. My stepfather is awesome, don't get me wrong, but hearing songs like "Cat's in the Cradle" and "The Living Years" by Mike and the Mechanics always makes me wonder "what if?" How would my life have been different, or would it have been all that different, if my father had not died in 1981, but had lived on to see me grow to an adult and see what I have become, professionally and personally. Clearly this is not a question that can ever truly be answered, but it is still one I often ponder.

And that brings us to Dragon. She grew up without a father in her childhood, something I can only partly relate to. At least I knew mine. And while the facts remain that her biological father, by all accounts, as pretty much a shithead, and that from the time she was six *I* was pretty much her father figure, that can't really change the fact that she must often ponder such things, too.

My father could not be there for me in my teenage or adult years. As she grows and matures, I CAN be for Dragon what my father couldn't be for me.

And yes, I know, we don't actually have to go through the formalization of a legal adoption to make that the case. I know that, and I get it. As my parents put it, far more eloquently and rationally than I could, since the emotional bond already is in place, why do we need to go through with the legal bond?

Well, two reasons. The first is simple, and I have stated it here: we want to. We won't be crushed beyond reason if we can't make it happen, but we do want to make every effort to make it happen.

The second is far more direct. How can I, in good conscience, after suggesting this rather unusual thing to Dragon, who loves it and wants to pursue it, then go to her and say, "Let's just drop this."? Even if I wanted to--and I don't--while it may make rational and logical sense to let it go, emotionally, how devastated would she be? How could she not see that as yet another abandonment in her life? How could I, as her uncle, as her father figure, as someone who loves her and wants nothing but the best for her, DO that to her?

The answer, quite simply, is I couldn't. And I won't. If she decides that this whole process is not worth it, I will drop it. I have told her that. I have told her to think about this, and to make sure this is something she wants to do, not something she is willing to do simply because *I* want to do it. But if she wants to forge ahead and make this happen, well damn it, I am going to do everything in my power to make sure it happens.

People ask me why? THAT'S why.

[Shpepper]

There is nothing wrong with being selfish. Sometimes in life you have to be that way. I think what you are doing is wonderful for all of you involved. She gets more family, you get a pretty cool daughter and as for her sperm donor, Well he lost out on her a long time ago.

Blunt time now for those things that people may say.


You will hear things like what was previously posted about just wanting to get access to you ass.

You will also more than likely hear that you are doing this for a tax write off. I know she is a legal adult, but that won't stop people from saying this.

Also some may wonder if you are actually adopting your own biological daughter to avoid any child support issues.

Then of course there is as you have said, the grab for attention crowd. Well, if you want attention, you can I am sure get that with just a few slight of hand tricks. You do not need to go as far as adopting Dragon just to get attention.


I think you are pretty Damned wonderful for wanting to make the fact that you are her Dad legal. I hope and pray that everything works out for you the way you want it to.

I don't know if it will help, but way back in the 1960's my dad and his dad did what was called an adult adoption in California. My gramps did not process the adoption before my dad and uncle were legal adults because they were receiving Social Security payments due to the passing of their biological father. There may be something in California case law that might be of help to you too..

[Jester]

Also some may wonder if you are actually adopting your own biological daughter to avoid any child support issues.

This one actually made me laugh out loud. Not only has no one said it, but anyone who knows me, Dragon, and her mother knows that that is simply not the case. Not only do Dragon and I not a think like each other, and not only is her biological father's name on her birth certificate, but her mother and I have never been sexually intimate and, and I did not even meet them until 1999. More damning to those who might suggest such a thing is that I didn't even get to Key West for the very first time until September of 1998, shortly before Dragon's 5th birthday. And the impossibility of such a thing is not only based upon my word, but also upon my tax records (which show I did not come near Florida until 1998) and Dragon's birth and medical records, showing she was born here and lived here until she was 14. Kind of hard to be the biological father of someone whose mother you didn't even meet until six years after the child was born. I may be a good magician, but that is just utterly ridiculous.

Then of course there is as you have said, the grab for attention crowd. Well, if you want attention, you can I am sure get that with just a few slight of hand tricks. You do not need to go as far as adopting Dragon just to get attention.

To be fair, attention whores are rarely satisfied with simply getting attention one way. I am an attention whore, and I know this to be true. But I will do what I can to get this done without it deteriorating into some kind of media circus/cause de celebre. Fuck that. I have plenty of other ways to get in the limelight if I so choose, magic being just one of them.

I don't know if it will help, but way back in the 1960's my dad and his dad did what was called an adult adoption in California. My gramps did not process the adoption before my dad and uncle were legal adults because they were receiving Social Security payments due to the passing of their biological father. There may be something in California case law that might be of help to you too..

I will look into that, as it may hold some legal basis for what we are trying to do, but the likely problem with that is that it happened in California, and California state cases do not generally set precedents for other states, such as Florida, Texas, or Arizona, the three states we would have any chance to do this in, as explained in the original post.

Thanks for your comments!

[BroSCFischer]

I will look into that, as it may hold some legal basis for what we are trying to do, but the likely problem with that is that it happened in California, and California state cases do not generally set precedents for other states, such as Florida, Texas, or Arizona, the three states we would have any chance to do this in, as explained in the original post.

I'm just thinking off the cuff here, but are you sure about that? Some states have much more liberal laws on things like adoption, which might enable you to proceed without being a resident, ESPECIALLY because it is an adult adoption. I'm thinking kind of like the people that get married in Vegas, and it's legally binding in the other states.

Just a thought.

SC

[Jester]

I...never thought of that, actually.

I suppose it is possible, and it is one of the questions I will ask the lawyer I am having a phone consultation with on Wednesday, but I am guessing it is not quite the same. Though that would definitely simplify a lot of things.

Definitely something I am going to look into. I would hope to be able to google this easily, but will actually probably have to check each State's adult adoption laws individually to see if any of them allow it when neither party is a resident of the State. Now THERE'S a fun project! I am about to learn more than I probably ever wanted to about every State's adult adoption laws.

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

That's really cool Jester!

I would however caution you about going back to Arizona, that place (politically) has become quite the nuthouse in the past few years.

[Jester]

Clerk, trust me, I know all about Arizona and its politics. It is, after all, where I call home, even during my self-imposed "exile" the last few years here in Florida.

But it IS home, and eventually I will go back there, political nuthouse or not.

And I should point out that I live in Florida, which is not only politically nutty, but which, in the opinion of myself and many others, has taken over from California over the last several years as the Weirdness Capital of the country.

Don't believe me? Well, among other things, I feel the need to remind you that this IS where the Zombie Apocalypse began!