Need an unbiased opinion (long)

[flybye023]

Cast of characters:
Mom (in a leadership position at church that would oversee the needs of members)
Jane (mentally ill, physically fragile church member who needs a lot of help)
Dorene (65 years old, raising a grandson, has HIPPA permission for Jane)
Lisa (young mother, works as a nurse, helps Dorene with Jane)

Jane has had several physical and mental breakdowns over the past two years and they are becoming more frequent. She relies on Dorene because Dorene is one of the few people she trusts. Dorene is not in the best physical condition either plus her marriage has some stress because of Jane's demands on Dorene's time.

About 2 weeks ago Jane fell down in her apartment and hit her head. An ambulance was called and took her to the hosptial. While there, the doctors realized that she was in the midst of a psychotic breakdown so they admitted her for observation. Dorene bore the brunt of this latest crisis because she was unwilling to burden anyone else with the trouble (i.e. she didn't say anything to anyone).

This week was time for Jane to come home. Everyone thought it was no problem until they were informed that Jane had been moved to a psychiatric hospital 4 hours away and no one at the hospital had notified Dorene or anyone else when it happened.

At this point Dorene's husband called Mom and told her that Dorene couldn't handle this latest problem anymore and it was now Mom's responsibility and he had told the people in charge to contact Mom with any further issues. Problem with this is, the people from church helping Jane need information on her condition and care, which HIPPA laws prevent them from getting and which only Dorene can take care of.

Lisa steps in at this point and says that the hospital should have some way of getting Jane home either by shuttle service or helping her get on the bus. She gets Jane to allow her to have some permission to speak to hospital staff and finds out that yes, the hospital can send Jane home. She then sets up an appointment to talk to someone at the hospital to finalize getting Jane ready to come home and find out what kind of help Jane will need. Jane then came home on Tuesday.

Turns out though, that the hospital just put Jane on the shuttle, notified Dorene she was on her way and left it at that.

Lisa gets up early on Wednesday, hires a babysitter to watch her kids and heads to the hospital for her appointment. She calls halfway there to make sure things are still set up and that's when she is informed that Jane's already home. When she questions why no one called her their response is "we thought one of your church people would tell you."

So here's where I need an unbiased opinion. Both Mom and Dorene are blaming themselves for not telling Lisa because they both knew Jane had come home on Tuesday. Plus they're both responsibility eaters and blame shoulderers (is that a word?)

I'm leaning towards feeling it's the hospital's fault and responsibility. Either Mom or Dorene could have told Lisa but was it really their responsibility? If it matters, Lisa is fairly put out with Mom and kind of chewed her out because she (rightly) feels that if she is asked to help with Jane she needs to be kept in the loop.

So, what do y'all think?

[Slayer]

If I misunderstood part of the explanation, please let me know. Here goes...

I think the hospital did their job when they informed Dorene about Jane getting on the shuttle. Yes, Lisa helped set up the transportation, but Dorene is the hospital's main point of contact; not Lisa. When I need to call someone, I call the first person I'm supposed to; I only call the second person if I cannot reach the first. The hospital reached the first and thus no need to call Lisa.

If Dorene was aware that Lisa had helped with transportation and was taking the time to get her, then she should have been the one to notify Lisa. Jane is her responsibility. Your mom could have told her, yeah, if she knew Lisa was taking the trip but Jane is not her responsibility.

Also, Lisa could have easily called the hospital before leaving the house or called Dorene. That's what I would have done. Why waste time going there if it's not set up set? That's why she called halfway there; should have been before leaving.

To me, Dorene is to blame for not notifying Lisa and Lisa is to blame for not checking before leaving.

[flybye023]

No, Dorene is not the point of contact. The only reason anyone knew anything is because Jane herself was calling Dorene and then Dorene would call Mom and Lisa. Lisa was the only one who had spoken to the psychiatric hospital, they didn't even know about Dorene

[Andara Bledin]

It depends heavily on what transpired in the arrangements made between the hospital and Lisa.

If the set-up mentions everything, that means that Lisa set up the getting Jane home scenario with the hospital and then, instead of finalizing things with Lisa, they just shipped Jane on.

Now, if Dorene knew that Lisa was handling the get Jane home arrangements, and then the hospital set up with her to get Jane home, she probably should have informed Lisa that the hospital went back to her rather than through Lisa to make sure that all parties were on the same page. Regardless, if Jane was delivered home, whoever had first direct knowledge of her arrival should probably have informed Lisa, if they were aware that she had taken on the handling of it.

As far as I can tell, the mom is pretty much just a bystander and really has no culpability in any of this.

^-.-^

[flybye023]

yeah, I don't know exactly what Dorene knew about the travel arrangements. All I know is that Lisa was the one finding out what resources the hospital had and that she was the name on the appointment to finalize Jane's release so that someone could be at Jane's home when she got there.

I see an error I made in the original post. The hospital did not call Dorene, Jane called Dorene from her doorstep because she couldn't get in and Dorene had a spare key.

[Slayer]

Ah, ok, I understood it as the hospital had called Dorene. I also figured that since Dorene had permission, the hospital was more comfortable with her than with Lisa.

So the hospital got Jane home and then Jane called Dorene for help when she got there. The hospital had only ever spoken to Lisa and not Dorene. In that case, the hospital dropped the ball in not notifying Lisa about the cancellation of the appointment and of the arrangements that had been made.

Did your Mom know that Lisa had made the appointment and was going there on Wednesday? How did the psych hospital know about the other church members and not Dorene? Did they call there asking about information, too? Did Dorene's husband call the first hospital or the second?

Lots of questions now, lol XD

[flybye023]

Yes Mom knew about the appointment. The hospital only knew that Jane's church was helping her, not any specific people. Dorene's husband is only involved in that he's Dorenes's husband.

The reason Mom didn't want to call Lisa is that she had already made several calls to her at work and assumed the hospital would call and cancel.

[Slayer]

I asked about the husband because you said he called the people in charge and told them to contact you Mom. I was wondering which place he spoke to.

I would have called Lisa the night before after she got home to let her know. Though honestly, I do still think that Lisa should have called the hospital before leaving to confirm the appointment. 4 hours is a long way to go and I wouldn't have felt comfortable without a confirmation. Either the night before or the morning of.

Though maybe they tried like your mom did to reach her and couldn't. So they gave up and figured she would find out once Jane showed up. I guess now it's just left to speculation, lol.

A bit of blame for everyone. I hope she doesn't hold it against your mom for long. Lisa did have responsibility, too.

[flybye023]

Oh, I see what you mean about Dorene's husband. By people in charge, I meant the church people who are aware of Jane's issues and have taken care of things in the past.

Thanks for your opinion. I tend to be a little biased because people tend to just dump Jane issues on Mom and Dorene because they don't want to deal with it themselves. My knee-jerk reaction is "they want what?!"

[violiavampyr]

It sounds like there was a whole lot of assuming going on.

[wolfie]

This week was time for Jane to come home. Everyone thought it was no problem until they were informed that Jane had been moved to a psychiatric hospital 4 hours away and no one at the hospital had notified Dorene or anyone else when it happened.

At this point Dorene's husband called Mom and told her that Dorene couldn't handle this latest problem anymore and it was now Mom's responsibility and he had told the people in charge to contact Mom with any further issues. Problem with this is, the people from church helping Jane need information on her condition and care, which HIPPA laws prevent them from getting and which only Dorene can take care of.

Lisa steps in at this point and says that the hospital should have some way of getting Jane home either by shuttle service or helping her get on the bus. She gets Jane to allow her to have some permission to speak to hospital staff and finds out that yes, the hospital can send Jane home. She then sets up an appointment to talk to someone at the hospital to finalize getting Jane ready to come home and find out what kind of help Jane will need. Jane then came home on Tuesday.

Turns out though, that the hospital just put Jane on the shuttle, notified Dorene she was on her way and left it at that.

Lisa gets up early on Wednesday, hires a babysitter to watch her kids and heads to the hospital for her appointment. She calls halfway there to make sure things are still set up and that's when she is informed that Jane's already home. When she questions why no one called her their response is "we thought one of your church people would tell you."

No, Dorene is not the point of contact. The only reason anyone knew anything is because Jane herself was calling Dorene and then Dorene would call Mom and Lisa. Lisa was the only one who had spoken to the psychiatric hospital, they didn't even know about Dorene

I see an error I made in the original post. The hospital did not call Dorene, Jane called Dorene from her doorstep because she couldn't get in and Dorene had a spare key.

I see 3 places to distribute the blame:

1) Original hospital. They transferred a patient to another institution without notifying the primary caregiver.

2) Psychiatric hospital. Despite Lisa having set up an appointment to make arrangements for Jane's return home, they put her on a bus without notifying Jane.

3) Dorene's husband. He has no business being involved, but takes it on himself to tell people that Dorene can't handle Jane's care any more. My guess is that Dorene didn't know he was doing this, he just decided for himself "This Jane character is taking up too much of my wife's time that she could be spending taking care of ME - I'll put a stop to that."