I'm at my wits end...please help :(

[Jester]

I'm considering filing a police report and visiting a center for abused women to get advice on what to do.

Stop considering, and do both. In an earlier post, you said that your mother, sister, and yourself had agreed to call the cops whenever he did something crazy. Well, this qualifies, and so you should definitely contact the police. No question, no considering necessary.

As for the women's center, definitely go pick their brains. They've dealt with this sort of shit before, multiple times, and almost definitely will have some excellent insight, suggestions, ideas, resources, etc.

Jester, Usually your advice is spot on, but if this guy is as nuts as Kisa describes, do you REALLY think THIS is going to work?

Yes I do, for a couple reasons. First of all, by "discussion" I mean discussion. As in with intimidation tactics, etc.

Secondly, men who abuse women are by their very nature cowards. This guy is a fucking coward. He would not dare confront someone who is his physical equal or larger, or anyone who is not scared of him. I have found out in my own life that people who are larger will often back down when they realize the person confronting them is not afraid of confrontation, is not afraid of them, and is not fucking around.

Now the obvious worry, and it is a realistic one, is that such a "discussion" could result in this scumbag retaliating for said discussion on Kisa's mom, sister, and/or Kisa herself. Yes, that is a very real possibility. But the thing is, he's already DOING that shit. And my philosophy is that if he tries something against the ladies, the men in the equation have another discussion with him.

Second discussions of this type tend to be large in messages and small in conversation.

Is this approach foolproof? Of course not. But then, none is. It is simply one avenue they might want to consider exploring. I would not blame them for rejecting it OR for taking it. It's merely an idea. (And I should say, in my experience, one that works more often than it doesn't.)

Not with just one guy it won't.

Several much larger and scarier guys who are willing to give him a "sample" of what is to come might.

Depends on the guy.

And in my experience, scarier is always more effective than larger. Of course, if you can get both, that's just a bonus.

Or might make things worse. Because this fucker doesn't like to lose and doesn't care what he has to do to get his way.

True enough, and it might, but his basic nature is still one of cowardice. I don't think he'll stop trying to get custody/visitation of his son, and I don't think he'll stop annoying Kisa's mom, but a lot of the other shit might well go away if he were amply "persuaded."


Kisa, as much as I hate the cold, I really wish I was up in your neck of the woods so I could help you out more directly with this.

[PepperElf]

I kinda blew the don't-be-a-target plan. Today, he was calling and texting my mom like crazy. .

Wait, didn't she already file the PPO? Does that legally prevent him from contacting her?
If so I'd suggest calling the lawyer. cos clearly he doesn't respect the PPO.



and, seriously, start looking into self-defense options. Perhaps even abuse counseling.
right now he's in control if he can scare you all that badly. he knows he can intimidate you and he's using that as a weapon.

[KhirasHY]

Every time I read something like this, it really makes me wish I had somehow ended up being a lawyer. This is exactly the sort of pro bono case I would take, if only I had the ability...

[Aislin]

Contact your local women's shelter. They will have resources for abused women and know of programs to find free or low cost legal aid based on a sliding scale. Contact your local precinct for information on battered women's resources or your local community college.

[wolfie]

One idea is to find out what the wire-tapping laws are in your area and record all contact. He's just proven that he is willing to lie and bad at it. If you have immediate proof of lies, he gets shut down.

Can't do that in our state.

There's a way around it even in "all parties must consent before recording" jurisdictions. As soon as the call is complete, say "This call is being recorded. If you do not consent to recording, hang up now". This is why so many businesses have their recorded message saying "This call may be recorded for quality purposes" - to let people know about the recording. It's also why answering machines are legal in "all party" jurisdictions - the person calling KNOWS that anything they say will be recorded to the machine, so if they leave a message it's implied that they consent to the recording.

One idea - have the recorder set up to mix in (at low volume so it doesn't swamp the conversation, but audible so it can be checked if there's the need) a local radio station. Just in case sociopath claims that the recording was edited, having a continuous "time marker" that's added AT THE TIME OF THE ORIGINAL RECORDING" can put a stop to it.

Of course, if he refuses to continue the call due to it being recorded, that will result in one of 2 situations:
1) No further calls - WIN!
2) If he wants to keep in touch, he'll need to use some other medium (text, e-mail, snail mail), which means his messages are ALREADY recorded - WIN!

[Cooper]

My Mom had that happen to her. I don't know too much about it, but what I do know:

* My grandmother was the one that worked out of the two, but he often took her paycheck and spent it on things like new cars and stuff for him. He was very very controlling about money.
* He was two-faced to my uncle, being great to him in person, but behind his back belittling him. The act was so good that my uncle had no idea what was going on.
* he had another daughter, who, after some time alone together would apparently get money for shopping and that sort of thing
* He offered a similar deal to my mother

I suspect my grandmother had to go through similar legal channels to get rid of him for good. She did do it though. She had another (a few other) husbands after him, and is now happily living with her boyfriend. It does end.

In personal experience, I had a boyfriend like this. I hadn't even left high school, so it couldn't go as far as this. (Neither one of us could drive yet.) People like this try to get inside of your mind, isolate you, and then take you down.

But again, it's proof that it does end. I'm in college now, and that guy is long-gone. I had to stand my ground, and get help. It wasn't nearly as severe as this, but if I had been with this guy ten years later... it could have been.

Good luck Kisa.

[Kisa]

Kisa, as much as I hate the cold, I really wish I was up in your neck of the woods so I could help you out more directly with this.

that would be nice, but you are still helping this way

Wait, didn't she already file the PPO? Does that legally prevent him from contacting her?

She did file the PPO but it has to go to court (Tuesday) and the judge will decide whether or not to grant it. Until then, we're open season.

But again, it's proof that it does end. I'm in college now, and that guy is long-gone. I had to stand my ground, and get help. It wasn't nearly as severe as this, but if I had been with this guy ten years later... it could have been.

Good luck Kisa.

Sadly, he will always have my brother as an excude to involve himself in our lives to some extent. I hope he outgrows this...

[Cooper]

Kisa, I'm no law expert, but listening to everyone here, so long as you document, document, document, you'll be able to cut that avenue off too. If you prove this guy is seriously, dangerously crazy, and it looks like you can quite easily do so, it shouldn't be hard for him to lose even the little amount of custody he has.

With that, he's going to find someone new, and easier, to manipulate and harass.

[Gizmo]

Kisa, I'm no law expert, but listening to everyone here, so long as you document, document, document, you'll be able to cut that avenue off too. If you prove this guy is seriously, dangerously crazy, and it looks like you can quite easily do so, it shouldn't be hard for him to lose even the little amount of custody he has.

With that, he's going to find someone new, and easier, to manipulate and harass.

This^ Especially if the younger brother is seeing/aware of some of this and will speak up to say he knows 'daddy made threats towards mummy'. I'm not saying feed him information but its worth asking him what he's aware of and letting him say it in his own words.

[Jester]

The guy losing custody is a possibility, sure, but it is by no means a certainty or even a probability. Most courts require quite a lot to cut off someone's custody and/or visitation of their offspring, so let's not get Kisa's hopes up too readily on this one. As I said, it is a possibility, but it is by no means probably or even likely.

But there may be a way for the guy to have visitation and/or custody that does not overly impact Kisa or her sister. If the court views the guy's actions towards the women here as over the top, they may well put some strict rules in place regarding his contacting of them and/or his seeing of his son.

[Seshat]

Supervised by a court-appointed third party, and with contact between mother and father only via a court-appointed third party. (Probably the same person.)

Child welfare is often taken very seriously.

[Kisa]

Update:

The PPO hearing was yesterday. In the end, the PPO was granted but not without a fine display of idiocracy and jerkiness on his part. My mom has been preparing evidence and statements for weeks; phone records, saving text messages, logging dates and times, etc. Steve hired a lawyer hours before the hearing, fed him edited information and lies, and sent this poor sap in the court room to be blindsided by a freight train. My mom went up by herself and went over the various issues; frequent texting and calling, even while she's at work which is disrupting her work so much that her personal line is being removed, his behavior, etc.
The lawyer claimed Steve is only calling to talk about their son.
Mom mentioned that Steve calls and texts her about 30+ times a day, most of which have nothing to do with their son.
Cue Lawyer giving steve the best what-the-hell look in the history of time.
Mom mentioned that steve has threatened to kill her on several occasions.
Lawyer says Steve did no such thing and it cannot be proven.
Mom mentioned that he made these threats in front of their councellor.
Lawyer: Oh...Well Steve has said that he will not call her at work anymore.
Judge: Has this behavior continued since you filed for the PPO?
Mom: Yes, and it has gotton worse since then.
L: Oh...

Did this help Steve see the error of his ways and make him realize that he can't do whatever he wants? No. Today, he called both her work and cell phone more than once and sent several texts while she was at work...


Back to court I suppose :/

[Sapphire Silk]

Back to court hell. You have a PPO. Call the cops. Time for Steve to go to JAIL!

[Crossbow]

Back to court hell. You have a PPO. Call the cops. Time for Steve to go to JAIL!

Less than 24 hours to violate the order? Yeah, Gray Bar Hotel time. He obviously thinks the legal system can't touch him, or he's simply too stupid to realize what he's doing is going to get him locked up. Either way, it's time for the cops.

[Kisa]

Less than 24 hours to violate the order? Yeah, Gray Bar Hotel time. He obviously thinks the legal system can't touch him, or he's simply too stupid to realize what he's doing is going to get him locked up. Either way, it's time for the cops.

My guess is the first. He thinks "I have a lawyer so I'm untouchable! Durrrr!!"! Mom is going to hire a lawyer and collect data until the PPO comes in the mail. In my state, you can get up to 93 days in jail and'or a $500 fine for each violation. He's at 4 violations so far. There will be more. The plan is to let him bury himself.