This is certainly a job-related curveball...

[mjr]

Ok, I turned in my two-weeks notice this morning. I recently accepted a position that will pay me approximately 35.5% more than I currently make. It's about 20 miles further to drive, and there are some specific benefits I'll lose, but I'll be working with technologies that will help me improve my skillset.

Anyway, my boss at my current employer calls me (I said glowing things about him in my resignation), and asks me why, and how much of an increase I'm getting.

So I tell him, and he basically tells me he's going to talk to HR and see if they can put together a counter offer to get me to stay.

I've told this to a couple of friends, and they each have conflicting opinions.

One says I'm "a fool" if I entertain a counter offer. That, and he says I'd probably be a "marked man" of sorts, since my pay would probably be close to the highest at our facility, and I wouldn't appear loyal to the company. So if there were to be layoffs, they'd probably come after me, first.

The other says I should at least consider the counter offer, if it's close to what I've been offered. He also says, quote, "A new person would have to be trained, and it would take management a while to find a new person, conduct interviews, etc. It's a pain. Much easier to keep people who already understand how things are done...They value you and want to see if they can arrange a solution where you'd be happy to stay."

He also says, "Sometimes companies view employees who get external offers as more valuable. Sometimes less. Depends on the company and the people involved."

I'm not exactly sure what I need to/should do here. I don't even know if my current company is going to make a counter offer. And if they do, I'll be shocked if it's anywhere close to what the new company offered me.

Anybody have any thoughts on this??

I recognize that it looks really bad, and I'll be burning a bridge if my current company matches, and I tell the "new" company to not worry about it; that I changed my mind.

[EricKei]

Even if the pay is (Exactly) matched, it sounds like the new job will be better in the long run; it gets iffier the better the counteroffer becomes. You may very well be right about being the first head on the chopping block if things go south; if they're serious, require a written contract that includes a month or two of severance pay -- if you accept THAT, speak to the "new" place and ask if they'd be willing to consider you in the future if things do change.

PS -- If you live in the US, that extra distance may qualify for Mileage deductions on your taxes (around 50~55c/mile for actual work distance traveled (read: lunch doesn't count), iirc, it adds up). If so, get a pocket notebook and start keeping track if you end up jumping on the new opportunity -- or just take shapshots of your odometer with yer cellphone-cam at the start and end of each leg driven, with the time/date embedded in them. Consistent documentation is important for such things (hold on to that data and keep it safely backed up)

[Jester]

I'm not exactly sure what I need to/should do here. I don't even know if my current company is going to make a counter offer. And if they do, I'll be shocked if it's anywhere close to what the new company offered me.

Anybody have any thoughts on this??

Absolutely.

You should listen to the counteroffer, if there is one. And you should consider it, ifs worthy of consideration, and doesn't make you laugh so hard you spit don't bubbles. (Sadly, some "counteroffers" are ridiculously insulting lowballs.)

But, and this is important, if they merely match your new offer, they've come in too low. Because, as you pointed out,

I'll be working with technologies that will help me improve my skillset.

Yes, you'll be losing some benefits for the time. But improving your skillset makes you qualified and eligible for better jobs in the future.

More than once in my life, I've taken a pay cut, knowing that by taking that position, I was making an investment in my future.

I am not saying that the new company will be that to you. But it sounds like it is, or at least that it could be. So, knowing what little I know, if it were me, unless the old company offered SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the new company, I'd take the new job for the opportunities it would afford me in the field in the future.

[Sapphire Silk]

More than once in my life, I've taken a pay cut, knowing that by taking that position, I was making an investment in my future.

This. So this.

I'd look at the counter offer. If it were me, it would have to be better than what the new employer is offering to make up for the fact that you won't be getting the new skill set. I doubt they will do that. But if they do, and if you take it, insist on a written contract that includes a severance package. Because if you turn down a job after accepting it, that employer will never, ever consider you again.

It can be very hard to cross bridges; they often burn behind you even if you think things are amicable. Only once in my career have I been able to go back to a previous employer and get rehired.

I once had job interviews at two hospitals in the town I lived in. One was an ER job, the other was a home health job. I really wanted the ER job. The manager offered me the job on the spot, and I decided to take it. I called the other hospital to cancel my interview, explaining I'd been offered a position and decided to take it.

Six weeks later, I was laid off when the hospital ran into major financial trouble.

My old employer refused to hire me back, even though my old position was still open, even though I'd given two weeks notice and had been a good, reliable employee.

I tried applying for open positions at Other hospital. HR told me I would not be getting an interview. They didn't like the fact I canceled the interview. I thought I was being responsible in not wasting their time interviewing for a job I really didn't want, but I guess they took it personal or something.

I had to take a job 70 miles away just to get something.

[mjr]

Absolutely.

Yes, you'll be losing some benefits for the time. But improving your skillset makes you qualified and eligible for better jobs in the future.

There are really two main benefits that I'll lose that I spoke of earlier:

1. The current company I work for has a "tuition disbursement" program, that allows up to $15,000 a year in "tuition disbursement". In other words, as long as I pass them, the current company pays for my classes. The new company doesn't have this option, so any courses that I pay for would have to come out of my own pocket. Right now, that's between $1,800 and $2,100 per semester.

2. I get the privilege of telecommuting twice a week. Not only does this save gas, it saves money, and allows me to spend a bit more time with my family.

Those are the two big benefits that will go away. The health insurance is different, and some of the discounts that I might be eligible for go away (i.e. I can buy a version of Microsoft Office for $10 or so).

I will say this: The new company also offers a bonus of up to 10% of the salary that I'll be making. My current company doesn't. I didn't even really tell my manager that. Though I have heard that companies will sometimes come up with excuses (legitimate or not) in order to avoid paying bonuses, or at least avoid paying the full amount.

And, a friend of mine pointed out to me that with a pay increase (either way) I can probably gain the necessary skills I need at home, and not really worry about "on the job" experience, especially since he encouraged me to put a section on my resume specifically dealing with projects I'm working on outside of work.

So I guess I'll see what happens.

[mjr]

Well, I think the decision may have been made for me.

I just spoke to my manager. He told me that he seriously doubts that Human Resources is going to come back with a counter-offer anywhere close to what the new company offered me.

I'm supposed to get an "exit interview". I don't know when that's going to happen. According to my manager, he's submitting my resignation to HR. They will then call him with some questions (why, etc...), then they will determine whether or not to make a counter offer, and they'll set up an exit interview with me.

[taxguykarl]

Think about it: What did it take to get the counter offer.

Moreover, your friends are right about you becoming marked and one of the first to go when things sour.

[EricKei]

Well, at least he was honest about it, and didn't string you along.

[mjr]

Well, at least he was honest about it, and didn't string you along.

Definitely. Throughout my career, he's probably one of the best managers (if not the BEST manager) I've had.

He even called me into his office this morning to make sure I knew I would have to pay back the "tuition disbursement" money, and informed me that I could probably use the accrued PTO time that I have to do so. He again told me that he was sorry to see me go.

I hate to leave, I love the environment I work in, I love the people I work with, I love the benefits, but I'm not getting the skills I want and the money isn't there.

At this point, I'm probably not going to take any kind of counter offer made to me, unless it just absolutely blows me away (which, according to my manager, is highly unlikely).

[mjr]

I just thought of this, but I kinda hope my new employer doesn't make me sign some kind of Intellectual Property agreement.

Some software shops make their employees sign these. They basically state that any code you write (even code done at home on your own time, on your own computer, for your own purposes) belongs to them, as long as you are in their employ -- at least that's my understanding.

I have a couple of projects I'm working on at home that I hope to sell, and I'd hate to think that I couldn't.

[EricKei]

Stuff done at home/on your comp/with software you paid for that is totally unrelated to them...? Eh...ask any lawyer friends you may have. Sounds iffy (if it's even done). Anything at all done on their comps or network? Sure. All theirs.

[Grendus]

If they do have an IP agreement, or if they have it as part of your hiring agreement, ask them if they would remove it. Many companies have those clauses in there as part of the standard hiring contract they had a lawyer draw up years ago and don't really care about them. A lot of times they'll remove it if you ask.

[Crossbow]

I just thought of this, but I kinda hope my new employer doesn't make me sign some kind of Intellectual Property agreement.

Some software shops make their employees sign these. They basically state that any code you write (even code done at home on your own time, on your own computer, for your own purposes) belongs to them, as long as you are in their employ -- at least that's my understanding.

I have a couple of projects I'm working on at home that I hope to sell, and I'd hate to think that I couldn't.

If it's a software company, expect the IP clause to be in the term of hire. I have yet to find a house that doesn't do it.

That being said, discuss your projects with the company's HR department and anyone else they feel is appropriate, in an official capacity. If the personal projects are way outside the scope of the company's business (you're writing games, and they do logistics, etc...), they may give you permission to work on it (on your own time, of course). If it's close to what they do (games and you're at a game company), most likely not a chance.

[mjr]

If it's a software company, expect the IP clause to be in the term of hire. I have yet to find a house that doesn't do it.

That being said, discuss your projects with the company's HR department and anyone else they feel is appropriate, in an official capacity. If the personal projects are way outside the scope of the company's business (you're writing games, and they do logistics, etc...), they may give you permission to work on it (on your own time, of course). If it's close to what they do (games and you're at a game company), most likely not a chance.

I can say this without really giving away too much. They are not a dedicated software shop. They have an IT department, though. That's where I would be working.

Any projects I'd be doing at home would have no relation whatsoever to any work I would be doing on the job.

[Crossbow]

I can say this without really giving away too much. They are not a dedicated software shop. They have an IT department, though. That's where I would be working.

Any projects I'd be doing at home would have no relation whatsoever to any work I would be doing on the job.

Then you're probably safe. Still might want to check with them, just in case.

IANAL, nor do I play one on TV, and all that.