Family and Differing Religions; Acceptance

[Gravekeeper]

As for the religion... voodoo is actually based on the christian religion anyway.

Ehhh, hold up there. Even a cursory Google search says otherwise. Yes, it does have some influences from several western religions, but its certainly not BASED on them.

Kisa specifically said Haitian Voodou, that's a different beast from the New Orleans type.

Actually, Voodoo is spelled many different ways. I've even seen it Voudun, Vodon, and others.

I was referring more to I didn't know the specific word for a practitioner, let alone the plural.

[Barracuda]

I agree with the "Disagree with you but it's your choice." As a Christian, I believe that we have a duty to be unashamed of our beliefs and willing to share them with others. However, that does not translate to "force them down others' throats." I also firmly believe that God gave us free will for a reason. I remember in church as a kid learning something about our faith, a creed, I think, that contained the sentence "He did not make us as robots to automatically love and obey Him, but rather gave us free will, that we might come to Him willingly." While I believe that Jesus did offer the only path to salvation that actually exists, at the same time, God's gift to humanity was free will, and no one can take that away from us. I would remind your mother that no one can be pushed into truly believing something, that they have to come to it on their own. At the same time, while it can be annoying, I can understand her viewpoint--she believes in and wants you to be in Heaven with her someday, and the thought you might not scares her, just like it would any parent who really believes in Heaven and Hell. Not trying to push my beliefs here, just explaining what might be going through her head.

[Kittish]

To thine own self be true. And to Hades with what anybody else thinks. If you aren't hurting anybody then there is no harm in it. Frankly, I would simply tell your mother that you do not want to talk religion with her and leave it at that. And whenever she brings it up either shut her down or walk away from the discussion. Keep doing it until she stops talking.

This. This this this.

It'll be hard. Your mom will probably keep trying to bring you back into the fold for quite some time. Be stubborn.

Side note, would you pm me with some of the verses? Curiousity, ya know.

[Moirae]

Wish I had known you were in NO back when we did a round the country wander, we stopped in Lafayette on the way to Key West. NO is one of my favorite cities for a short stay off season - I have a thing for cafe du monde coffee and beignets, especially in the just post dawn coolness when it is all locals there for breakfast. Reminds me of a great time I had there one late spring/early summer building out a machine shop for the company I was working for, my work gang and I met up there for breakfast pretty much every morning because I wanted to stay at a small hotel there instead of an econobox boring motel.

I try to keep what I say fairly general on here, but over the years I've talked about things like Mardi Gras and Jazz Fest so people picked up on where I live lol. Well, that and I've talked about the south.

We started running this hotel last December so we may not have been running it at the time you came through here. It's been an interesting learning experience that doesn't stop when you actually leave the property even on your days off.

NO is a really fun place for tourists and to play tourists, but there are certain things that are incredibly aggravating about it too. Like the heat and humidity and the hurricanes, for example. And Mardi Gras is great fun for people who don't live here. For the locals, its rather aggravating. For those work the hotel industry, we can't wait for it to be over.

[Eisa]

My religion is similarly misunderstood, Kisa. [I'm a theistic satanist.] Granted, my parents don't know that my religious beliefs have changed...

I suppose just stick to your guns. It's interesting that she didn't know about some of those verses, I hope that actually helps you on that front.

[Eevie]

Kisa, that's actually really facinating! I don't really align myself with any particular religion at all. But I love hearing about different beliefs and cultures! And if it makes you happy, go for it, as I said before.

[Sapphire Silk]

A form of voodo mixed with Buddhism . . . well that makes for a very interesting mix.

Still, I'm glad you were willing to share the mix with us. You see, the issue I had reading the OP was not what Religion X turned out to be, but the fact the OP wasn't willing to disclose it.

As long as you are not willing to talk frankly about your religious faith, you will never get your mother to understand or accept it.

And the harsh truth is, she probably won't ever accept it. She doesn't even understand her own faith if she has to get other people to interpret it for her. She lives in a self imposed bubble; religion to her is a shield and a comfort, but not something to actually be understood or practiced. Because your faith is so different, because it involves aspects that her brand of Christianity condemns as devil worship, what you believe and what she believes are diametrically opposed.

Acceptance requires an open mind. I doubt your mother has one, not when it comes to religion. But she won't even have a chance at understand or acceptance as long as you conceal your faith from her.

It really boils down to this: can you live with the consequences of telling her the truth? If you can't, you should let sleeping dogs lie.

Sounds like she may already suspect something since she's is trying to push religion on you. But it's really up to you : tell her or not.

Having said that, I'll now say this. As a Roman Catholic, there are certain things I take on faith. What I'm about to say is not Catholic doctrine, but I believe it to be true (and would probably have to repent if my priest heard me say it ). I believe that God reveals himself to us in the way we can best understand and relate to him. That's why I became a Catholic; it's where I believe God wants me, because that's where I can best have a personal relationship with him.

Other people do better in other faiths. If the one you practice is how best to relate to God, then it is not my place or anyone else's to judge.

Many Christians lock themselves into this us or them dichotomy, which is unfortunate. I do believe that faith is something that should breathe and grow. I can find spirituality in a lot of things that aren't Christian. I see God in many places, but feel closest to him in the Catholic faith.

I think you are still finding your own path to faith, and it may still have some twists and turns. I think that not being frank with those around you about your spiritual journey stifles your soul, and leads you astray from that journey. As long as the path is one of peace, then I have little fear for your soul. Others may not take that approach. I can only urge you to have the courage of your convictions; it will bring you pain when those you love reject you.

That can happen regardless of the faith path you take. You'd think my path would be an easy one, since I chose Catholic Christianity, but that's not the case. Two of my closest friends have had a very difficult time accepting my path and my faith. One is atheist, the other identifies as Christian but does not like organized religion. We have had disagreements on the issue, and a couple of arguments. It's painful. It's very painful . . . because these two friends care deeply for me, and their concerns for my well being are genuine.

You're going to have to go through that. For me, I can accept it because it's part of the faith; Jesus tells us that following him comes with a price.

Even though you are not Christian, following your own faith will come with a price, because it is so different from the path your family follows. It may not be part of your faith, but it is reality all the same.

So, you'll have to decide what you can deal with, and deal with your mother accordingly.

The best outcome is that she eventually comes to accept who you are. That will take time, and it will probably take work.

The worst outcome is that she never accepts it, and shuts you out of her life.

It's up to you to decide if the risks are worth the benefits.

I wish you the very best.

[dalesys]

One of my favorite songs: The Christians and the Pagans - Dar Williams

[Seshat]

Sapphire, you reminded me of a theological principle I devised in my early teens. In typical teenage self-importance, I capitalised its name.

The Principle of Divine Fairness.

If God cared what Name we worshipped/served Him under, He would have made it clear to us. He hasn't, therefore He doesn't.

I added some other stuff about 'any god who does care, and doesn't make it clear isn't a god I'd want to worship/serve anyway'; but meh. I was a kid.

[Sapphire Silk]

Seshat, I actually got the idea from a friend of mine who is Ba'hai.

Both Bahai's and Catholics believe that God is ultimately unknowable. Bahai's believe that God has revealed himself differently throughout time to meet the needs of the people of those times. It's part of the reason why they believe in absolute religious tolerance.

I find the idea appealing, and it makes sense to me.

[Seshat]

Makes a lot of sense to me, as well.

For example, a lot of the Leviticus rules (not all, but many) are common sense for a desert-dwelling nomadic or semi-nomadic peoples in a pre-refrigeration, pre-antibiotic era. Many things, like Kosher slaughtering and meat handling methods, ensure that someone educated (the Rabbi) is present to ensure that proper food safety precautions are taken.

Even if the culture didn't fully understand the reasons behind the rules, the rules worked and kept the people alive.


You can see the same thing in the sacred cows of India, and - well, in a lot of what people have held sacred or used as life rules, in one place or another over time.


God does, indeed, seem to provide rules that work for the location and environment.

[Fire_on_High]

Since everyone is so curious I may as well spill the beans. Religion X=Haitian Vodou.

You might enjoy reading the work of Andrieh Vitimus then. He's a chaote who works heavily with the Loa.

[Kisa]

You're best off reading the Dalai Llama's books to be bluntly honest.

I didn't know Vodouisants was a word. Duly noted in my vocabulary. Truth be told it doesn't sound much different from any other earthy or spirit based religions. I can see how you went from pagan/wiccan into it. It even sounds a little bit Shinto with its views on spirits and Deist with its view towards god/gods.

But I can see how it ( much like wiccan and paganism ) can inspire the OMFG TEH DEBIL reaction in the fundie Christian types down south. Voodoo, like Islam and Wicca/Paganism, got the Hollywood treatment for a while as a convenient bad guy.

I've read a couple of the Dalai Llama's book and they are incredible.
Vodouisant=practitioner of Vodou; Houngan=Vodou priest; Mambo=Vodou priestess; Hounsi=Vodou societe initiate
I have loads of practically useless yet interesting information.
Exactly. Vodou is just another victim of the different=bad mideset. The "Christian"* mindset that "not in the bible"="of the devil" didn't help either.

*I put this in quotes because I know not all Christians are like this and do not want to make false blanket statements.

If you are interested, give me a pm and I'll give you rates. Also, if you come here, I suggest you go to Reverend Zombie's Voodoo Shop. Marie Leveau's Voodoo Shop is another good one. Speaking with the people who run them will allow you to find out who to get in contact with and they may have suggestions of their own. Reverence Zombie's even has a real altar in the shop.

That sounds amazing. I've actually heard of Marie Leveau and it would be amazing to someday see her shop. I have a little altar but it's nothing special.

Ehhh, hold up there. Even a cursory Google search says otherwise. Yes, it does have some influences from several western religions, but its certainly not BASED on them.

Kisa specifically said Haitian Voodou, that's a different beast from the New Orleans type.

The general story of Vodou (by general I mean not book length) started when African slaves were brought to what is now Haiti. The slave owners were Catholic and French speaking; the slaves spoke their native tongue and practiced their African spirit religion. The owners saw the slaves dancing and singing and worshiping the Lwa(spirits) and immediately flipped their shit thinking "OGOD THEY AR WORHIPING TEH DEVILLL!!!" To purge the "evil" from the island, the slave masters made the African religion forbidden, made the slaves learn French, and anyone who disobeyed was punished. Anyone caught worshiping the spirits would have their home raided and all non-Catholic paraphernalia was taken away and destroyed. Rather than give up their religion and language, the slaves began using the Catholic saints as images to represent specific spirits and blended their native tongue with French to create Creole and eventually Vodou was born; an old religion adapted to survive in a new world (although I don't use the Catholic images myself).

New Orleans Voodoo is similar to Haitian Vodou and is influenced by Haitian Vodou, but the New Orleans variety is mostly about the more exciting spirits and the flare (divination, readings, etc). New Orleans Voodoo is also very big on Hoodoo which involves the potions and spells and the like which are supposed to make someone love you or make you better looking or whatever. Haitian Vodou is more about the balance of the spirits (meaning working with the exciting spirits as well as the calm ones), finding your path, building relationships with your spirits, etc. Haitian Vodouisants do magick as well, but it's an occasional thing for when you need it as opposed to in the New Orleans variety where magick is done all the time. Neither one is better than the other; it's just about which type calls you in.

And this concludes this segment of Useless Knowledge With Kisa. Thanks for tuning in.

It's interesting that she didn't know about some of those verses, I hope that actually helps you on that front.

I thought it was interesting too. She's read the bible before so it surprised me that she both didn't notice and didn't have an explanation for those verses.

A form of voodo mixed with Buddhism . . . well that makes for a very interesting mix.

Still, I'm glad you were willing to share the mix with us. You see, the issue I had reading the OP was not what Religion X turned out to be, but the fact the OP wasn't willing to disclose it....*snip*
....I wish you the very best.

*trimmed to keep my post shorter*

This is amazing. What you said about God appearing to each person in a way most relatable to them makes so much sense and fits with my beliefs as well. For the time being, she seems to have dropped the religion issue but next time she brings it up I'm going to tell her "I have my beliefs, you have yours, I'm not trying to make you share my beliefs so please do the same for me. If you don't think it will be possible for us to discuss religion without hurt feelings, then let's not discuss religion and stick to other topics." I know she won't shun me or anything drastic like that. At the very most, I think there will be an aura on uneasiness around the topic of religion but I have never really fought with my mother and we have never had any major disagreements which I think may be part of the problem; this is so weird because we've never disagreed over anything more serious than my dislike of aerobics and salads and her like of aerobics and salads. All bigger disagreements I kept to myself to keep the peace and I suspect she did the same.

I tend to be very wary of sharing about my religion because of its reputation and the reactions I've gotten in the past but I'm glad I shared with you all and in fact feel a bit foolish for being so nervous of it before. The people here on CS are like a second family to me; I should have known that nothing bad would happen. Thank you all for being so kind and so accepting and so helpful.

You might enjoy reading the work of Andrieh Vitimus then. He's a chaote who works heavily with the Loa.

I'll definitely have to check out his books, thank you! Finding good Vodou books isn't easy...

[Gravekeeper]

This is amazing. What you said about God appearing to each person in a way most relatable to them makes so much sense and fits with my beliefs as well.

Fun Fact: In the Tibetan Book of the Dead ( Which is literally a manual for how to die and what to expect after you do. Its fascinating if a bit unsettling ;p ) the beings you encounter after you die take on the form that is most comfortable to you. Your perception shapes their image.

Granted, the rest of the Book of the Dead is pretty surreal. Though it makes a weird sort of sense.

[42_42_42]

I was raised Methodist and switched to Episcopalian shortly after my marriage. For years I've been very interested in religion and especially the early history of Christianity and it's roots. Eventually, I studied myself right out of the religion. I learned so much about the roots of Christianity and Judaism that I no longer believe in Jesus as a divine figure or in a god.

For most of my life, I knew what I believed personally didn't always match exactly what the doctrine of the faith I practiced said, but I ignored that for the comfort and familiarity of Christianity. Once I no longer believed in god/Jesus, however, that was no longer an option. I'd always been interested in Buddhism and I quickly realized that I've always been a Buddhist, I just didn't realize it.

So now I'm studying Buddhism, albeit not as much as I'd like due to being in nursing school. The book I'm using as my "introductory course" so to speak is Awakening of the Heart: Essential Buddhist Sutras and Commentaries by Thich Nhat Hanh. I also find this website: http://viewonbuddhism.org/ helpful. I plan to work my way through the Dalai Lama's books as well.

So far the only person in my family that knows I've left Christianity for Buddhism is my husband. I plan to tell my parents eventually, but I don't anticipate really discussing it with anyone else in my family as I don't really see it as their business.

My husband is an agnostic/atheist (depends on the day), but has always been very supportive of my religious choices. Basically, as long as what I am doing fulfills me, he's happy.

I do miss my church family. I also miss the ceremony and pageantry of the church service. Sometimes I wish I could go back without feeling like a hypocrite. I know this Christmas, as the first Christmas since my personal revelation, will be especially difficult for me as the Advent services and Christmas mass were very special to me. I know I am on the right path for me, but that doesn't make changing 35 years of habit any easier.

I'm sorry your mother is being so difficult. Unfortunately, she's one of those Christians who probably knows very little about the faith she professes outside of what she's read in the Bible and what she's heard from the pulpit. Of course, if my experience is any lesson, if all Christians educated themselves to the point I did, the faith would go extinct! I do find it extremely sad that so many Christians miss out on the central message of the faith which is simply "love" (I don't have a problem with the central message). Instead of this love, they judge and discriminate and hate. When I was a Christian, that wasn't how I behaved and it wasn't how I was taught to be, so I've never understood why so many Christians behave that way.

In the end, you have to do what is right for you. Hopefully with time your mother will at least stop the proselytizing, even if she is never able to truly accept that you have found a faith path different from hers.