I may lose my niece forever

[Zellie Crescent]

I just got off the phone with my boyfriend shaking and crying, thinking I'm never going to see my niece again. My sister is a bitch who thinks that she can do whatever she wants and if she doesn't get her way she threatens to move away so we can never see Lauren again, ever since Christmas she got a new girlfriend and kept sneaking her into the house without permission to have sex. At first she denied it, then she switched her story around and said she hardly ever has anyone over so who cares.

About a little over a month ago it happened on a day where we were only watching her for a day (jamie and Mike switch off weekends) and her and her girlfriend left before Lauren got dropped off, around lunchtime and she went upstairs I didn't think anything of it I just thought she went to go get one of her animals. About five minutes later she still didn't come down so I went up to get her, she was in jamie's room she told me that she thought her moms room was messy so she would clean it for her.

I told her to give me the plastic bag she was holding so I could throw it away, I looked at what was in there then I threw the bag down and told her to go wash her hands right now. There was a used sex toy in the bag, when my mother came home I told her about it and she was furious. jamie just laughed and thought it wasn't that big of a deal, two days later she found out that Mike went out on a date and she flipped out. About a week after that she needed to work early again so instead of telling anybody she just invites her girlfriend over and leaves her there with Lauren, as soon as I go downstairs I see her on the couch flipping through the channels.

I ask her what she's doing here and she says jamie wanted her here so there's someone to watch her kid, I told her I was upstairs she could've asked me. She just rolled her eyes and said yeah but I'm here so I guess I'll stay, Lauren said Aunt Sarah's here so go away. The girlfriend called jamie and she told me to lie for her and tell her she wasn't over and to let her stay, I told her there was no way in hell I was going to do that and she told me that felt like I was trying to run her out of the house. I told her she can think whatever she wants, she didn't clear this with mom and dad. They yelled at her that night and told her they did not want her over here ever again.

Every time she gets told no about something she uses the same threat, tonight was the worst and I don't think I'll be able to sleep I'm so upset. jamie had her girlfriend pick her up and drive her to work so I was watching Lauren until eleven when mom came home and at twelve thirty they went to a play date, at four thirty they came home and watched tv. A little after eight thirty jamie comes home and tells mom that her girlfriend is coming over an they're going upstairs, mom says no and jamie raises her voice and says that she'll just wait until she goes to sleep. Mom says that she's not to set foot in this house or else she'll call the police, jamie just laughs and says no she won't that if anything if our grandmother sets foot in this house she'll call the police and have her arrested because she hates her husband.

Then she started yelling and screaming about how dare she judge her just because she has a girlfriend and that she lives here so she'll do whatever she wants, and that she's a lot better than that scumbag piece of shit that Lauren has for a father. (he's the nicest, most good hearted person you'll know, he'd do anything for Lauren) Mike was on his way here to pick up Lauren and jamie demanded moms car seat because she didn't want Lauren in this place anymore, when mom went to hug and kiss Lauren goodbye jamie yanked her away and told Lauren shouldn't say goodbye to her and took her out of the house crying hysterically because mommy was fighting with grandma.

When I came home mom told me about what happened with jamie, I called Bill to help him calm me down I told him the latest update on jamie's bullshit since he's also concerned for Lauren's safety and well being, he told me if anything my mom should try to adopt Lauren or have Mike get full custody but either way jamie should be cut out of her life completely she's absolutely toxic. I told him I completely agree, I also told him that I hope Lauren got to her dad's house ok and that jamie crashes off a bridge or gets t boned by a drunk driver doing over eighty. He told me that I shouldn't wish for something like that, I told him that's why I didn't say wish I said hope.

If you wish for something and it happens you have to feel bad about it because you wished for it, if you hope something happens and it does you're not obligated to feel shit and you don't even have to pretend that you care or that you're upset. He asked me how I would feel if I woke up tomorrow and my sister was dead, I told him I didn't have a sister and I would feel so much better knowing that her toxic influence is out of Lauren's life.




I'm sorry if this is long and ranty and ragey but I just could not keep this in, I just feel so helpless and Lauren deserves so much better. I just fucking hate this.

[Moirae]

Somewhere along the line, your sister got it in to her head that this kind of behavior is ok because no one will ever do anything about it. And until someone actually does, nothing will change.

It's time for child services to step in and your family is perfectly justified in asking for help from them.

As for your sister having a girlfriend... I don't see why that's an issue at all. It's how she's handling it that's the problem.

[Kheldarson]

As for your sister having a girlfriend... I don't see why that's an issue at all. It's how she's handling it that's the problem.

I don't think the fact that she has a girlfriend was brought up as a "she has a girlfriend instead of a boyfriend" fact, but more of a "she has a sexual partner she's bringing over without permission who happens to be a girl". At least, that's how I read it.

And I agree that sis is acting this way because nobody will stand up to her. If you won't advocate for the child to be in a better position, even if it means not seeing her again, then who will protect her?

[Seshat]

You said that Lauren's father was the nicest person who would do anything for her. So if he got custody, he'd surely ensure that she got to see those members of her family (maternal as well as paternal) who were good for her.

Go to child services. Advocate for her father, her grandmother, you, whoever other than her mother to have custody.

If the mother's own family is advocating for the father to have custody, that should hold weight in the courts. Yes, it's harder for a father to get custody than for a mother; but this might tip the balance - depending on where you live.

If the courts are too 'mother is best' for that, try for grandmother or aunt to have custody.

[Zellie Crescent]

"she has a sexual partner she's bringing over without permission who happens to be a girl". At least, that's how I read it.

This. The only time mom saw her it was a two second hi/bye, mom said she talked to jamie and apparently the three of them (mom, jamie, and the girlfriend) are going to make plans to spend a day out somewhere so she can get to know her as a person and not see her as a stranger. I told mom to let me come with her just in case one or both of them decides to be a bitch to her, she said she doesn't want anyone to feel like they have to have their guard up and that she doesn't think they'll say anything to her in public.

I told her that was a lie, I asked her didn't she remember last year when we went to that diner by St. Stan's when we were talking about what big raffle prize they might have that year she chose to very loudly ask me when I was going to pay back the eight hundred dollars I owed mom and dad for fixing my car, I told her I was almost done paying them back and she shut right up. I also told her to tell Mike about what jamie said about him, mom said that she's afraid that if Mike gets full custody that she won't be allowed to see Lauren anymore. I'm not sure exactly what she does but at the baby shower before Lauren was born the people at our table that didn't already know found out that Mike's mom works with children's services, so if Mike tells her anything negative about jamie regarding Lauren she'd help him make sure she never sees Lauren again.

I've already told my mom before if it ever came to it and I needed to testify in court (or however they do it) to make sure Mike got full custody and jamie isn't alowed to see her, or mom adopts Lauren and jamie has to move out that I would absolutely do it and wouldn't give a second thought about it.

[mathnerd]

Geesh, when I moved back in with my parents a little over a year ago, as a 37 year old mother of three, I still had to abide by their rules regarding bringing over a sexual partner. My father couldn't have made it more clear: "I don't care what you do outside of my house, but at my house, only married couples are allowed to have sex." Alrighty then. Granted, I pushed that rule to the very limit, but I digress. It's not about the gender of the partner, it's about the homeowner having a rule and that rule being respected.

That said, I agree with the others. It's time to get CPS involved if there's a legitimate fear for the child's safety. Be prepared, however, for wild accusations to be made. Having been a teacher in the inner city, plus having volunteered with CPS, plus several of my family members being very involved in the dependency court system, I've seen thousands of cases. Sadly, a vindictive parent will very frequently through out wild and completely untrue accusations about other people who might gain custody of the child.

[Tama]

Document everything she does, good or bad. That will help tremendously in a court case.

[Zellie Crescent]

I'm already writing down everything no matter how little or stupid it might seem, and both me and my mom have off tomorrow and are going to be here when Mike drops off Lauren. Jamie would never hit Lauren, she's just very clever with what she says and how she says it when Lauren is around. When she's not, there is no filter.

She always hated moms rules, she would go right up to the edge just to see how much she could get away with. As for wild accusations half my moms family won't talk to us because of things jamie said about grandpa and aunt Marie (grandma's sister), so we're worried about what she might say about us.

She has pulled the "you're anti gay!" Bullshit knowing full well me and mom worked with and are friends with two lesbians, and I have gay friends so it's a bullshit excuse.

[taxguykarl]

Sounds like you're going about this matter, correctly--documentation. I agree with the rest about CPS involvement.

[Automan Empire]

Sounds like a controlling and manipulative individual. Read up on Axis II disorders and see if this brings insight.

Sounds like tough love time for all. She has gotten away with the manipulative behavior this far; it will take a united front of a consistently different pattern of behavior from all parties moving forward.

Sad that she'd use a child as a pawn like this, but it is the hook or trump card by which she regains sick control of those around her. Ultimately you will have to accept the possibility of the worst consequence, her cutting off access to the niece, to set yourself free of her power to manipulate you.

Best wishes, I have dealt with this category of issues before and it is difficult.

[Zellie Crescent]

I talked to my mom about different ways to fix this without it affecting Lauren too much and not placing the family in a negative light, she told me she has thought about adopting Lauren before. I told her I have too but seeing as I don't currently have my own place and I don't think I make enough money I wouldn't be an option, mom said that she ended up paying for about eighty percent of Lauren's medical bills she has that covered. It turns out most of the times jamie paid the doctors she borrowed the money from mom.

I talked to her about Mike and she feels like it's not her place to say anything and put her foot in it, I didn't mention cps because I know she'd say that it's not an option. What is a very serious option for her is adoption, she told me she's looked into it. I think she's just waiting for something to make her pull the trigger on it, I told her if she's looking into it she should just do it already.

[Jester]

I have a few things to say, and I'm going to be very upfront: you may not like everything I say.

I see this situation as having a few possible outcomes.

1. No one does anything, Jamie continues to be a horrible parent, and your niece suffers for it. Possibly she grows up well-balanced, possibly she grows up to emulate her mother. You can hope for the former, of course, but the latter is a possibility.

2. Things continue along the same way, with the exception of Jamie leaving with her daughter, and cutting y'all off from her. Possible outcomes same as above.

3. Your mom sues for custody, with or without Mike's support (though her likelihood of success increases if he supports it). If she succeeds, and puts her foot down where Jamie is concerned, things look good for Lauren. If she fails, see 1 and 2 above.

4. Mike sues for sole custody, with or without your family's support (though his likelihood of success increases if your family supports it.) If he succeeds, and he and your family lay down the law to Jamie about how visitations will be allowed, things look good for Lauren. If he fails, see 1 and 2 above.

5. Mike sues for sole custody, gets it, and to keep Jamie away from Lauren, cuts off all ties with your family. If he's as good a guy as you say he is, this will, in the end, likely be better for Lauren.

My take on it is that your mom or Mike should sue for custody to keep Jamie away from Lauren as much as possible. I personally believe it's best for a child to be with at least one of their parents, if at all possible. Which of course means Mike.

And if this happens, it's important that you and your family understand that Mike will be free to do as he chooses, and if that means taking off with Lauren to keep her away from Jamie, while that will suck for you guys, it will be better in the long run for Lauren.

So going into this, you not only have to understand that you risk losing Lauren forever, but you need to accept that not seeing her again if she's cut off from Jamie is a better end result than her staying with Jamie and you still being able to see her. In the end, what's best for Lauren should be your first priority.

Even if it breaks your heart in the process.

[MoonCat]

Jester's absolutely right that the focus should be what is best for the child.

Also, your mom may not want to involve CPS but I don't think adoption is as simple as "I want to do this." If your sister is legally an adult, your mom can't just adopt Lauren without her consent or the involvement of the courts. So in the end, CPS is probably going to come into it, because your mom is going to have to prove that Jamie is an unfit parent. The next person they look at will be Lauren's father. Your mom and you will probably be a distant third and fourth as possible guardians (in the event that the court finds that both Jamie and Mike are unfit).

If you and your mom (and Mike) truly feel that Lauren is not being care for properly, contact a lawyer who specializes in family law. You need expert advice.

[Seshat]

Worst case that I see as likely with Mike, if he's the good guy you say he is, is that you make an arrangement with him that:

- he keeps Lauren from you while she's a child, to help her heal and keep her safe from Jamie.

- he gives you regular reports and photos, and stays in touch: possibly from a hotmail or other not-immediately-traceable email address. He keeps your contact details.

- Once Lauren is mature enough to not be easily affected by Jamie (ie, her personality is settled, and she can take and understand 'dealing with toxic people' advice), Mike gives Lauren your contact details, and the four of you arrange a re-introduction.


That assumes that Mike is the nice guy you think he is, and is sufficiently worried about Jamie's influence to cut her off from access to the two of you during the most vulnerable part of her life.

You may well have to suggest this method; but I see no reason for him to refuse it.

[Zellie Crescent]

Lauren is absolutely being cared for properly it's just that jamie is a shitty influence on her, and the stuff she says around her especially about Mike isn't right. I'm going to talk more about this with my mother as soon as I get home from work today.