Advice and Vent: Hubby BFF

[cleorose]

Okay so this might be a little long and winded and I am sorry. But Hubby's niceness has put us in a bit of a situation.

We have been married 13 years in May. We have 3 kids , ages 2, 9 and 11. And we have a massive dog. We are in debt and working our way out.

6 years in the military and now hubby has a steady GOOD paying job with BNSF. Its a railroad. makes around $28 an hour. He has been there since December.

We just moved into our place in January. And our landlord (bless his heart) was very specfic that he did not want ANYONE not on the lease living with us, unless he approved them first. That and his last two tenants have or will be evicted. The people to the left of us got served their notice after 1 month tenancy to evict. Drugs and no rent. People down the road are gone as well. They moved in about the same time as us. I know cause we looked at that house at the same time we looked at this one.

Hubby has this BFF who is a douchenozzle for lack of a better word. Sexist, Jerky. In his 30s but still a boy. I say this because he in the 13 years I have known him, has never worked more than a month in any location. He gets fired or he quits. He then spends his time on side jobs, under the table work. He couch surfs. Leaves when people get sick of him. His own parents do not want him. He has a daughter I think about 8-9 years old. The mom works at Dennys and he does not pay child support. Obviously no work = no money. Except he always found money for beer, cigarettes and marijuana. Imagine that.

I have no fear that he will be interested in me. He has called me ugly. We had a truck that was a 3 seater. He told hubby I should walk home (4 miles) while 7 months pregnant if I didn't like him riding with us. Note that truck was in my name. Not hubbys. And its been like that forever. Stuff how hubby would be happier if he was with someone skinnier, better cook or did housework or whatever. We see him like twice a year. And thats way too much for my tastes. I would love to run him over with car. Thats about how I sum up how I feel about him.

So now hubby is in this great job. great benefits, good people. And his crappy friend his of course giving him the sob story. I only work 10 hours a week. I will be lucky to make 6k this year. He pays no rent. I am sure whoever's couch he is on is worn out. I would feel sympathy. But the man is a louse. He has no work ethic. No consideration for others and while hubby says he could help with the rent (PFFT) if we let him live in the basement for 3 months max. I think he would become the cockroach I can't kill.

I feel its stupid to bring someone out for a job you are HOPING they will get instead of telling them to apply and then go from there. We live 600 miles away from him. He would have to hop greyhound to get to us IF he got the interview. If being the big word for me. I think one look at a sporadic work history and they are gonna send him a big fat no thank you email.

I am not sure how much more of a logical argument I need to keep his friend away away from us. We are still living paycheck to paycheck with his bad habits. And now he wants a new truck and junk. His friend would have habits that would be have to be fed. He likes to drink and smoke as much as hubby. I averaged hubby smokes 2-3 packs a day (5 dollars each) and his six pack is like 22-25 dollars a day. Thats 175 a week. 4 weeks =750. Now add a 2nd person to that habit. We could not afford it. It would cost us EVERYTHING. And we are still struggling to build up savings.

I don't even know what to do at this point. How to explain it to him this is a bad bad bad idea. And he only hears that I dont want his bestest buddy to come be his new roomie.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Show him the numbers and put your foot down. This guy has a track record that proves he's not reliable and you do not want to risk losing your home over it. Don't even bring up that you don't like him personally. (Though if it does come down to that, point out that he clearly has no respect for you and hubby should not expect you to live with that.)

And if the landlord has to approve another tenant, maybe you could give him a heads up that this is not a tenant he wants to approve. Perhaps a quick phone call while hubby is at work. Sneaky, but might do the trick. Unless hubby is wanting to try to sneak him in, in which case it's back to "we are not going to risk losing our home for this guy."

[Seshat]

Unfortunately right now, it seems that your husband is hearing what he thinks he's hearing, not what you're actually saying.

You might need some sort of mediator: a wise family friend who he will listen to, your religious-advisor-of-choice (priest, pastor, minister, rabbi, imam ... whatever), or if necessary, a family counsellor. I mention the religious person because many people will listen to advice from them when they won't listen to anyone else: I have no idea whether or not your husband is one of those.

Explain your view, including the number crunching, and including the fact that this third party doesn't respect you or treat you as a person-of-worth, to the mediator. Then shut up.
Let your husband explain his view, and make a point of listening. If you know 'reflective listening' techniques, or any other technique which makes it obvious that you're actively trying to hear him, use them. Otherwise stay silent but attentive.

Once he's finished making his points, make it obvious that you've heard them. Perhaps even writing them down - actually, writing them down in a 'pros/cons' table might not be a bad idea.

Be prepared to be told that you're not hearing him. And actively work to try to hear him.

Include emotional reasons in your pro/con list. Yes, if his side can include 'he's my best friend', your side can include 'he treats me like shit on his shoe'.

Then you ask him to reflect what you said. And to write that down.

Stay calm.

Even if he hasn't actually heard you, stay calm. Even if he 'reflects' stuff you never said, stay calm. I know it'll be hard, but if you value your marriage, you will need to learn ways to get past this 'not-hearing' problem. And being calm under pressure is .. well, okay. It's MY way. It might not work for you, but .. well. It can't hurt to try it.


The worst case will be that you have a pros and cons list, have both heard each other, and still can't agree. Some things you can't compromise on, and sometimes you don't agree. And it sucks.

Correction. The worst case is that you haven't heard each other. But at least you've tried.

Hopefully, once you've made it clear to him that you are listening, and that you demand to be listened to - that it's your right, dammit - you'll be able to come to an agreement. And hopefully, he'll realise it's a damned stupid idea to be this guy's next crutch.

Knowing that you are listening, that you value your husband, his thoughts, his values and his ideas, should help him stop being unwilling to hear you, at least. And should help him feel like you love and want him: that it's just his friend you don't want.


But yes, I agree about slipping a word-to-the-wise to the landlord. I hate the idea of having to go behind your husband's back, but you really do need to avoid the problems this could cause.
(I have a deadbeat uncle - actually, several of them - and one of them couch-surfed at our place when I was a kid. Caused my folks over a year of debt collectors insisting that Dad was my uncle and owed them....)

[Kagato]

(I have a deadbeat uncle - actually, several of them - and one of them couch-surfed at our place when I was a kid. Caused my folks over a year of debt collectors insisting that Dad was my uncle and owed them....)

At least your uncle didn't steal your car while on a suspended drivers license... >_>

EDIT: and also try to steal several of your expensive electronics and hide them in his room with the intent of trying to pawn them off... >< (Mine snuck into my room one night and took off with my laptop, PSP and a couple of other things, as soon as he was down in his room (he was sleeping in the garage), I walked straight down there and said "Give me my things back and I might just refrain from calling the police."

[iradney]

Ask him if he would tolerate someone treating his mother or child the way his friend treats you. Or if he would tolerate that kind of treatment from a friend of yours. He may very well say no. Then ask him why he expects you to be ok with being verbally abused, put down and stolen from.

[Jester]

We just moved into our place in January. And our landlord (bless his heart) was very specfic that he did not want ANYONE not on the lease living with us, unless he approved them first.

Here endeth the argument.

[It's me]

I agree with Seshat. Also remind him that his first allegiance has to be to his wife and family. Putting their well being at risk shouldn't even be an option.

Also be mindful of the difference between helping and enabling.

[MoonCat]

Agree with everyone here, especially Seshat and Jester. You CANNOT have this man living with you without your landlord's approval. And you have just as much say in what goes on in your house as your husband does, so yes...put your foot down. Let him in and you risk losing your home AND a major problem between you and your husband. And keep this in mind: Just because this guy doesn't like you and has called you names doesn't mean he won't ever try something with you.

And what about the kids?? Would they be safe with this jerk in the house? Hell, no.

I suspect your husband just doesn't want his old "friend" to think badly of him. Fuck that. Who needs the so-called good opinion of a leech?

[wolfie]

Count me in with the "him moving in risks making you homeless, since additional residents must be approved by the landlord - so HELL NO" crowd.

Except he always found money for beer, cigarettes and marijuana.

Something that nobody else has brought up. My understanding is based on Canadian law, and the example I read about deals with cars, but it's probably similar in the U.S. and dealing with in the home.

Scenario: Driver picks up hitchiker. During the trip, driver pulls out a bag of weed and boasts about making a good score. A couple minutes later, they're pulled over. Legally, only the driver is deemed to be in possession.

Scenario 2: Same thing, except hitchiker pulls out the weed. Both the driver and hitchiker are deemed to be in possession.

Why the difference? Because the driver is the one in control of the vehicle, and in scenario 2 should have (in the eyes of the law) stopped the car and told the hitchiker "OUT! NOW!". By failing to do so, he is condoning the presence of the weed in his car.

You say your hubby works for the BNSF. I don't know what he does there, but a lot of jobs with transportation companies (including ALL safety-sensitive positions) are subject to random testing. You don't want your husband to lose his job due to buddy's sidestream smoke - and if buddy is found in possession, and the authorities find out that you knew that someone living with you had dope, YOU and your husband are also in possession - goodbye hubby's job.

I'm not asking what state you're in - at the federal level, marijuana is a schedule 1 (completely illegal) drug, and people in tolerant states can still be charged under federal law (even heard of one case where someone hired by a city government to grow medical marijuana was convicted in federal court - with the jury out of the courtroom, the judge ordered his lawyer to not mention the term "medical marijuana" or HE would wind up in jail for contempt of court).

Note that this is how things stand - any discussions as to whether or not things should change, you know where to take them.

[AnaKhouri]

It sounds like you have several perfectly reasonable reasons to present to your husband on why the BFF should not be allowed to move in. If he won't listen to these, then there is something wrong with him.

I am actually pretty appalled that this 'friend' has been allowed to treat you so badly.

[MoonCat]

Wolfie makes an excellent point.

Also keep in mind, if this guy moved in and smoked weed in your house, he would be exposing your kids to it; and even if the landlord had approved him to move in, he'd probably change his mind upon learning this guy was using drugs in his building. Plus, bums attract other bums. Who knows what kind of "friends" this guy would acquire and invite to your house while you and hubby are at work?

[sms001]

Thirteen years is a good solid foundation - hope you two make it for the long haul.

I agree that this might be a good point to get some outside perspective; counseling, a mutual friend you both respect, whatever.

One of the things my wife and I really stressed in the pre-cana classes we taught was that a husband and wife are THE team - any outside people (Including your children, in-laws and 'BFFs'.) or forces are something you tackle together, and hubby isn't playing for the team right now.

Why not? I'm guessing you two are about the same age as douchenozzle? So you married in your late teens, early twenties? If so, he may be pining a bit for those halcyon days of youth. Tack on the strict lifestyle of being in the service, and he may be looking at hanging with DN as a way to relive some of the things he missed. While you work this mess out, keep in mind that hubby understandably needs an alternative way to have fun, let off steam, reward himself. Try to find a way to do it with YOU. I know money's tight, but a sitter and a movie/dinner more often, a night at the bar, or even just a "I've got the kids tonight, here's some beer and pizza, you go watch the game." If Hub is overlooking what a train wreck (no pun on his job intended. ) having this guy in your lives will be, he must think the payoff is substantial.

tl:dr: Hubby isn't "being nice," he's looking for something for himself. (Which isn't a bad thing in itself.)

Except he always found money for beer, cigarettes and marijuana. Imagine that.

They always do, don't they?

I would love to run him over with car.

Why?

I thought you said you had a perfectly good truck.

Good luck cr

[BearLeeBadenaugh]

Speaking as someone who has had to throw two leeches out, don't let it start!

Also, if hubby values his job, he doesn't want to risk even being around someone with substance abuse issues. Some positions in the transportation industries are true zero-tolerance rather than threshold. Not to mention the fact that rail companies would be held to federal standards rather than state.

I'd like to point out as well that a six pack a day is a little heavy. Cut the drinking down to weekends and that's $100 a week towards savings. I hesitate a little to throw out the term, but a nightly "need" for alcohol yet maintaining a job/life/etc does fit with functional alcoholism.

[Sapphire Silk]

Speaking as someone who has had to throw two leeches out, don't let it start!

Also, if hubby values his job, he doesn't want to risk even being around someone with substance abuse issues. Some positions in the transportation industries are true zero-tolerance rather than threshold. Not to mention the fact that rail companies would be held to federal standards rather than state.

I'd like to point out as well that a six pack a day is a little heavy. Cut the drinking down to weekends and that's $100 a week towards savings. I hesitate a little to throw out the term, but a nightly "need" for alcohol yet maintaining a job/life/etc does fit with functional alcoholism.

Yes, this thought occurred to me as well. Hubs should rethink his alcohol intake, because sooner or later he's going to get nailed on a piss test. If deadbeat brings pot in, the odds go up: even second hand smoke will test positive in urine for up to 30 days after exposure.

However, I don't see hubs buying into the alcohol issue until it nails him in the ass. The pot issue is a bullet that can be dodged, however.

A married couple I'm friends with have a simple rule: "Two yeses, one no." Both have to agree to something before they do it. If even one is against it, then the answer is no. Bear in mind, this applies to major decisions that affect the both of them: expenditures over $50, buying major purchases, or deciding how to deal with a problem with the kids. It doesn't apply to petty stuff.

It works for them. This is a major life change hubs is proprosing. As a considerate husband, he MUST allow his wife to say no, no questions asked, to something this major.

BFF could be the greatest guy since Jesus; if wife says no, he should respect it and tell the guy he'll have to find accommodations elsewhere.

I had roommates as bad as BFF. This is why I no longer have roommates.

[wolfie]

Hubs should rethink his alcohol intake, because sooner or later he's going to get nailed on a piss test.

Not a railroader, but as a trucker who drives to the U.S. I'd imagine that the rules covering me are the same ones that would cover railroad workers (safety-critical transportation worker). Alcohol is NOT one of the items checked for on a piss test - when you're called in for a random check, it could be alcohol, it could be drugs, or it could be both. The drug check is a piss test (if you don't hear anything back from the lab, you're in the clear, but it takes a while since the collection site sends the sample out for testing). The alcohol check is a breathalyzer, and the test is done at the collection site. You know before you leave whether you pass or fail.

Your employer will tell you that you need to come in during business hours, but they WON'T tell you the reason. Why won't they tell you? Because once the magic words "drug test" are mentioned (by either you or them), you have at most one hour to report to the collection site before it's considered a refusal to test. Alcohol metabolizes at around 1 "standard drink" per hour (assuming healthy liver). OP's hubby should be in the clear booze-wise provided he's not doing anything stupid (i.e. he's following the 8 hour "bottle to throttle" rule), even if he winds up subject to an "on the spot" test (i.e. in case of an accident at work). Still, 6 beers per day is getting into problem drinking territory - not a drinker, but I believe the standard for men is no more than 2 drinks in a day, and no more than 7 in a week.