How to deal with saying no to verbally abusive people wanting to movein (swearing)

[Tama]

Al and I have been married and despite struggling a bit (shit seems to happen when you least want it to), we are treading water.

His hellion of a sister got married and her husband quit a good job he hated (join the fuckin' club, asswipe) and now works for his uncle who is not paying them enough and now they are being evicted. And they want to move in in the next few days.

We are declining to have them move in with us. We simply cannot afford it, financially or mentally. Every guilt trip in the book is being thrown at us and we're utterly sick of it.

"What does the Bible say about forgiveness?!?"

It says forgive. If the person repents. Al's sister will not do that and will do all the damage she can in the name of keeping herself on top.


I tried to lay out the facts to motherinlaw (hereafter MIL) about how abusive this harridan is.

You are nothing but pain pills and free childcare to her

This among other things was said and I made sure to use the term "abuser" frequently. She has enabled this to the detriment of her own health! And when I point THAT out, what do I get?

She's still my daughter! I can't abandon them when I know they're suffering!

Yes, and that makes abuse okay. Sure. And the fact that they walked into this suffering knowingly means WE have to make up for it? We have to be the responsible ones because they can't do anything involving work?

Have I mentioned also that this would be SIX other people in the house, 4 of which would need to use our one toilet and one shower? The bills will at least triple, and getting a job right now is not easy! Plus forget any romance. Forget being able to walk around with no shirt on. Forget keeping the bills down (most lights in house are off and the living room light does not come on until at least 7 pm). She never let us canoodle or do anything romantic when she was in the house because....reasons. She would yell at us for it claiming "she knows what will happen, I did that once"....


Funnily enough they don't want to go live with her husband's mother because she is a harpy who wants to control their money. Oh the irony.



I guess my real question is, how do I help Al through this? How do you help someone who will be losing their family ("You will have no relationship with your nieces!") because they refuse to be free room and board and a punching bag that doubles as an ATM?

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

no.
No.
NO.
Exactly what part of NO is so confusing?

und so weiter.

As for the thing with the nieces, you're going to have to convince Al it isn't worth wrecking your finances and your living situation indefinitely.

[Tama]

He's saying no, thank god.

But the hard part beyond that is dealing with the vitriol.

[mjr]

Wait a minute...I want to try to address some of this...

We simply cannot afford it

I think a lot of advice columnists and people who specialize in etiquette would tell you that is ALL you need to say.

We can't afford it/don't have the room is a perfectly acceptable answer. It will be hard, but that's what I think you'd need to do.

What does your husband think? Is he OK with them moving in? If he's against it, the two of you need to present a united front on this.

Al's sister will not do that and will do all the damage she can in the name of keeping herself on top.

I really don't mean to pry, but what kind of damage, and what do you mean by "keeping herself on top"?

Also, do I understand correctly that she is using your MIL for main medication (as in, stealing it)?

Have I mentioned also that this would be SIX other people in the house, 4 of which would need to use our one toilet and one shower?

"I'm sorry, but we don't have the room..." is starting to sound like a VERY legitimate reason. Where would these 6 people sleep?

And I'm presuming they'd be mooching off of you and your husband, for the most part, and wouldn't even be grateful...

Plus forget any romance...She never let us canoodle or do anything romantic when she was in the house because....reasons...She would yell at us for it claiming "she knows what will happen, I did that once"

Are you referring to your husband's sister, or your MIL, here? Regardless, why is it anyone's business other than yours when you're romantic or canoodle or anything like that? It's your house, if you wanna get it on in the middle of the living room, you should be able to (assuming no children present).

I guess my real question is, how do I help Al through this?

Be there for him. Talk to him. Listen to any concerns he may have. Does he have any other siblings? Are there any nieces/nephews on your side that he could have an uncle relationship with?

You and Al MUST establish boundaries.

When I started doing this shortly before my wife and I got married, we got what my wife refers to as "guilt-o-grams" via email.

She even tried to see if she could bring an extra person or two (uninvited) to our wedding and my son's 1st birthday party.

[Tama]

We have established that they are absolutely NOT going to live here. We are united on that issue. And no. I have an uncle, an aunt, a grown up cousin, my brother, and grandmother. That's all.

Boundaries are in place. They are assaulting him with every guiltbomb in the book. I am behind him 100% and am trying to help him deal with the pain of having to say no to his mother.

He is seeing her in an odd light now. She will complain up and down about the shit that this woman puts her through and yet wants us to share in her misery. In one breath she complains and in the next she says, "You're abandoning her! She can change! Give her a month!!!!"

[mathnerd]

"No" is a complete sentence. Don't try to justify, argue, defend yourself or make excuses. It honestly doesn't matter why you're saying no. You have the right to make those decisions about yourself and your home and it really doesn't matter why.

As for your nerves, remind Al that these people are using the children in an attempt to manipulate you. Even if you gave in now, something else will happen in the future. You'd eventually have a fight, or they'd do something so over the top that you'd be forced to kick them out and they'd just use the same "weapon" at that time. It sucks, but does he really want to be held hostage in his own home?

edit:
You posted while I was typing. I will also add that you should just shut down the conversation. Don't allow it to happen. If anybody tries to talk more, tell them that the discussion is over and hang up the phone, leave or show them the door. Do it every single time it's mentioned.

[mjr]

We have established that they are absolutely NOT going to live here. We are united on that issue. And no. I have an uncle, an aunt, a grown up cousin, my brother, and grandmother. That's all.

And your brother is the one with the bats**t crazy wife, right?

Boundaries are in place. They are assaulting him with every guiltbomb in the book. I am behind him 100% and am trying to help him deal with the pain of having to say no to his mother.

This is where YOU need to be strong. If it's OK with your husband, you may even have to intervene, and play "the bad guy". It's probable that your brother's wife and your MIL look at you that way anyway.

In one breath she complains and in the next she says, "You're abandoning her! She can change! Give her a month!!!!"

So let me get this straight: Your MIL wants you and your husband let your brother and his bats**t crazy wife (and some other relatives) move in, and then give her a chance to change?

Sorry, that's not how it works in this circumstance.

[mjr]

As for your nerves, remind Al that these people are using the children in an attempt to manipulate you. Even if you gave in now, something else will happen in the future. You'd eventually have a fight, or they'd do something so over the top that you'd be forced to kick them out and they'd just use the same "weapon" at that time. It sucks, but does he really want to be held hostage in his own home?

This is a STELLAR point, mathnerd...

People like her WILL manipulate. They're conniving to try to get what they want, and can't understand that they're part of the problem.

[KuariKaydrith]

I recall you posting about how toxic this woman is, and I seem to remember that her bullshit is part of why you ended up moving out and breaking up with Al. I wouldn't want her anywhere near you two with that sort of bullshit.

I am in full agreement with mathnerd - shut down the conversation. Whenever the topic gets brought up, simply say you are through discussing it and change the topic. If they won't drop it, then remove yourselves from the equation, physically if necessary. Don't respond to the guilt trip Al's mother is trying to lay on you either - she is a large part of the reason why Al's sister is so damn useless in the first place. She has nobody to blame but herself.

[taxguykarl]

Agreed with all the others, NO is all you need to say, Tama. Good to see that Al is on the same page.

[Tama]

And your brother is the one with the bats**t crazy wife, right?



This is where YOU need to be strong. If it's OK with your husband, you may even have to intervene, and play "the bad guy". It's probable that your brother's wife and your MIL look at you that way anyway.



So let me get this straight: Your MIL wants you and your husband let your brother and his bats**t crazy wife (and some other relatives) move in, and then give her a chance to change?

Sorry, that's not how it works in this circumstance.

No, the batsh**t crazy woman is my husband's sister. Sorry, this has me so frazzled that I am being more vague than usual...

[Gizmo]

About the only think I can think of is reminding yourselves that you have already done far too much for the family as is. And If his mother is so worried about abandoning them then SHE can put up the funds to help them get/keep their own place. She says she can't? "Well then how do you expect that WE can afford to either? We have to keep ourselves financially stable or *everyone* will be homeless."

[Tama]

Funny, we've brought that up and all we get is more guilt trips. She seems to think if we just let it go, this time, everything will be fine.

Yeah...no.

[EricKei]

I'm with Gizmo on this one -- I find it amusing that one of their strongest adherents is someone who won't have to actually do anything to assist them, herself...>_> And if y'all had let them in, then when it inevitably went South, it would be YOUR fault for not adapting to these poor unfortunate souls ~_~

But yeah, the decision has been made; stand by it. Remember, the ones guilt-tripping you guys don't care what you've done for this crew in the past -- that was Yesterday. They care about what you can do for them TODAY.

[MoonCat]

I can't add much to the excellent advice already given, except to ignore (delete immediately) emails from anyone that's trying to guilt-trip you. Don't even read them. If someone calls, the second they bring up the subject tell them it's not up for discussion, say goodbye and hang up.

There is no evidence that these people's behavior has changed, so good for you for sticking to your guns.