Diet Advice!

[Whiskey]

Interesting, I always drank less than whole milk as I thought it was more healthy, but boyfriend insists on whole milk, so that's what I use now.

Ok, I will try to post a diary in a few days time, it might be boring though but it would be interesting for me if you or someone could cast a eye over it.

Well it depends on how you feel about food and calories. A lot of people follow a "low calorie" diet because they think (naturally) less calories = weight lost!

Well, it depends. If you're eating 1700 calories in oven baked chicken, vegetables, good fat sources and exercising moderately then yes, lower calories are wonderful!

If youre eating 1700 calories of pringles, doritos, and full flavor coke while playing world of warcraft 17 hours a day, then it really doesn't matter.

edit: Also, make sure you actually calculate what your body maintenance and weight loss caloric intakes should be. You should eat 20% (20 or 30, i think) less than your maintenance caloric intake for weight loss. If you eat too little, you will fail because your body will take a shit on you. You need to eat to lose weight!

Macro's AND calorie watching are the key. You have to keep your macro split (carbs/protein/fat) where it is best suited for you and your activity level. Eating right is entirely more important than counting every single calorie. When I hit the gym 5x a week, my "weight loss" caloric content is about 2100 calories. To maintain my weight i think I'd have to eat 2300.

Whole milk is good for the active because it has less sugar and more protein. And like Seshat said, you shouldnt be drinking THAT MUCH milk that it matters if you have a glass of whole milk.

You could eat 2 dozen eggs a week like I do. ahaha.

edit: for your food log don't for get to add any and all drinks (sans water, unless you use crystal light or something) as well as all the stuff people dont think about. Stuff like, How much butter did you use to grease the pan?

[Magpie]

To clarify Whiskey's phrasing: too few calories means you don't have enough energy. Yes, the calories in/calories out balance is what it all boils down to, but there are refinements. If you're hungry, you will have a harder time sticking to the diet. So don't eat chips. For the same amount of calories you can fill up with something. Also, chips just don't last. You know how with some foods you can feel stuffed, and then an hour later you're hungry? That's not good for a diet. If you want more info on that, look up the glycemic index. In a nutshell: protein and fat are good, because they last longer. So is fibre. Just remember to balance the glycemic-lowering properties of fat with it's high caloric content.

Also, what's not considered is the metabolic load to digest the food in the first place, this is where the idea of negative calories comes it. To put it simply: digesting food is work. (This is why you eat heavily before going to bed when winter camping). Therefore, digesting food burns calories. The more work it is to digest, the more calories it burns. Something that is a lot of work to digest, but doesn't have a lot of energy we can use (like celery) is great for filling up without adding to your calorie count.

The other catch, which I alluded to, is that people who say all you need to do is cut calories, and it doesn't matter when you eat them, etc, forget is that your caloric intake is connected to your caloric output. In engineering terms, they're not independent. So if you are in a position where you will be burning the same number of calories no matter what (you always walk to work, and won't start busing if you feel tired, or your job is physical labour, or you're really dedicated to going to the gym, etc), then just straight cutting calories will help. Otherwise, make sure you cut them in a way that won't affect your energy levels. To lose a pound a week, go 500 calories under your maintenance level. To lose two, go 1000 calories under. Don't go below that, it's risky and it's even harder to keep it off than normal.

[Whiskey]

Something that is a lot of work to digest, but doesn't have a lot of energy we can use (like celery) is great for filling up without adding to your calorie count.

I really dislike this method of thinking. Celery is good for you, but it wont "fill you up." This is what I meant about worrying too much about calories and not enough about health. Your premise is to eat something that is essentially worthless for energy in order to limit calories. The last time I heard about "negative foods" was when I was 17 and a hardcore anorexic. (not implying anything, just saying.)

edit: although if you're a boredom eater trying to kick it, eating celery out of boredom wouldnt be a bad idea.

[Magpie]

edit: although if you're a boredom eater trying to kick it, eating celery out of boredom wouldnt be a bad idea.

It's also great for emotional eating.

You make a good point, I wasn't recommending it as a way to starve yourself, but if you've had good, healthy, filling meals that make up your caloric requirements for the day, and are still hungry, then it's better to snack on celery than on something else. (Better to not snack at all, because then you'll get out of the habit of feeling hungry when you've had enough, but whatever works is best).

Further clarification: the celery was an example to make a point, because everyone knows that. Where I care more is in something like white bread vs. whole grain. And in addition to the calories you burn digesting it, if food is harder to digest it also makes you feel full for longer. So there's another reason to pay more for the tasty bread. You're not just treating yourself, you're also helping your diet.

[TelephoneAngel]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we clarify if we are speaking American or British?

If I remember correctly in American a chip is a crispy thin thing in a packet, what we here call a crisp.

A chip in British is what I think you call French fries in American.

[Whiskey]

No, I know you werent

I meant crisps, TA :P

edit: although with how "health and nutrition" is here, it could just as well be a bag of "chips" (french fries) too.

[Seshat]

One thing I will say:

Don't fret too much about the details at first. Yes, there are details like oily fruits and vegetables, or which micronutrients for what situation, or whatever.

But it's far, far more important to just improve AT ALL, than to fuss over details - at least at first. Once you get to Whiskey's level of eating/exercising right, the details help you tweak things.

But if you're going from a pizza and hamburgers and chips/crisps diet towards a healthier one, don't stress over details. Just work towards the goal conditions in the big post I made.

Once you've achieved most of those goal conditions, you can research the fussier details.

Eating the wide variety of colours and plant parts will give you enough micro- and macro-nutrients to be basically healthy.
Eating either meats from different animals (and different cuts of meat), or different sets of legume/grains will give you a wide variety of proteins.

I'm not saying that Whiskey's details aren't important - they are. But from the starting point of a typical modern Western diet, it's far, far more important to just get started. And the stuff in my post earlier in the thread is enough to work on, enough to remember.


Actually, one big exception here:

Do do DO listen when Whiskey says you HAVE to eat to lose weight. She's absolutely, totally right there. Eat too little, and your body goes into starvation mode.
If you're trying to lose weight, and you can 'hear' your 'hunger' and 'full' body cues, eat as much whole grains and vegetables (including culinary vegetables that are botanical fruits) as you want.

If you can't yet 'hear' your 'hunger' and 'full' body cues, eat three to five serves of whole grains, and three to five serves of vegetables a day, one palm sized piece of meat (or one additional serve each of a legume and a whole grain), two or three serves of fruit, two or three serves of dairy, and optionally one or two eggs.
If you're doing heavy physical work, add additional serves of whole grains and vegetables, or talk with your doctor about adding more meat, eggs, or dairy. Or just add more legume/whole grain pairings. Have two bean burritos for lunch instead of one.


Note:
Learn to make yourself smaller portions. There is nothing wrong with being a bit peckish when you finish a meal. Eat until you're still a little bit hungry, then wait half an hour or an hour. If you're still hungry, have something else. If you're not, then you were actually 'full', and just couldn't hear the cue.

Over time, doing that will teach you your 'full' cue. That will be a huge step forward for healthier eating.

Once you've got your 'full' cue, the 'hungry' cue will start to make itself noticed. It 'feels' kind of similar.

[BookstoreEscapee]

And regarding salt: if you're worried, cook your beans from scratch. Avoiding canned and otherwise preprocessed foods in general is good, but they all take a long time.

If you do have to go the canned route, dump them in a strainer and rinse them first, and you'll get rid of a lot of the salt.

Right now I'm drinking hot chocolate made with water and just a little milk.

Last winter I made hot chocolate with Hershey's dark chocolate cocoa powder and milk (I use skim; I'll drink 1% if it's the only thing available but I can't stand anything higher than that). You have to add sugar but I'm sure it's less than what most any commercial (non-artificially sweetened) mix would have. I haven't quite gotten the recipe right, though (I tend to err on the side of too much cocoa, which I didn't think was possible ). When the weather cools off I'll start experimenting again (I might try it with honey...). If you try it, mix cocoa and a little milk and heat in the microwave (or on the stove, but microwave means less dishes to clean) so it makes a smooth sauce, then fill the cup the rest of the way with hot milk.

Cinnamon is also really good in hot chocolate (I'll often add it when I get Starbucks). (You have to mix it well, and stir (or swirl it around) a few times while you drink it, or you end up with a mouthfull of wet cinnamon at the end.) I discovered this once when I got a hot chocolate at Starbucks and they accidentally put in cinnamon syrup instead of vanilla. It was yummy but I use the real stuff so as not to add the extra sugar (and they usually only have the syrup around Christmas when they do their special holiday flavors). Plus cinnamon is supposed to have a good effect on your blood sugar.

[Whiskey]

I'm not saying that Whiskey's details aren't important - they are. But from the starting point of a typical modern Western diet, it's far, far more important to just get started. And the stuff in my post earlier in the thread is enough to work on, enough to remember.

This thread started on TA wanting to know if a meal was healthy or not, how so, etc which is why my posts are a bit more specific in regards to the detailed nature of things.

The funny thing is, you start by improving the big things. More water, less bad fat, dont focus too much.

Then you start focusing, refining your diet, figuring out what specifically works for you, even weighing food if you so desire.

Then once you're in that swing, you pretty much go back to not focusing as hard because these new habits have replaced your old habits so you don't have to think as much as you did previously.

[Mishi]

@BookstoreEscapee - My favorite bread is a white bread base with loads of different seeds in it, but it seems to be everyone else's favourite because it's always sold out. I normally end up getting a wholemeal grainy bread because it keeps me feeling full and the kids prefer the texture. When Jazzybee is in a picky mood, she has 'white' bread that is actually a mix of wheat and rye flours. I check ALL the labels because Bubbles has a mild allergy to Preservative 200/202, and even though its normally a dairy-food preservative, I'm still careful.

@Magpie: I actually ate more while I was breastfeeding, didn't change the diet part until afterwards. I did walk in the mornings after Bubbles' first morning feed, mostly in order to get going for the day and in an attempt to avoid post-partum depression. Also, I decided not to lose any weight after Jazzybee because we were planning another baby (Bubbles) and my mother lost the weight between myself and my brother. Then she didn't lose any after that pregnancy, added more during the one that produced my younger sister and has only added to that weight over the last 17 years.

[AccountingDrone]

Ooooooo!

Was that PCOS? And how thorough was the neutering?

Private message - or tell me I'm being nosy - if you like, but we do have several PCOS women on the board who'd love to know. Including me.

Well while I did have PCOS, I have had other endocrin/apocrine issues most of my life, so which of the hormone cocktail that vanished was preventing the weight loss I couldn't tell you exactly which it was. I had both ovaries and the uterus yanked out [fibroids, endometriosis and a charming stage 1 tumor on one ovary and a dermoid/lipoma mutant crossbreed on the other.] I also had a bunch of adhesions fixed, and he tossed in a complete rummage of my digestive tract and checked the appendix just because he was in there already. Actually, to be perfectly honest, other than a bit of personal dryness [heh] I could heartily recommend neutering to any woman who does not intend to pop out a sprog. I just wish I could have had it done about 30 years ago and stopped a lot of physical duress. The lack of continual and intermittent pain and stress is fantastic. I opted not to do hormone replacement and just tough through the hot flashes, they are almost gone now. As I mentioned, I did get the personal lack of lubrication issue, but that is remedied with a quick trip to a store. Not having the raging hormone beast is a serious bonus, and I am saving the insurance company a fortune on norethindrone.

[BookstoreEscapee]

@BookstoreEscapee - My favorite bread is a white bread base with loads of different seeds in it, but it seems to be everyone else's favourite because it's always sold out. I normally end up getting a wholemeal grainy bread because it keeps me feeling full and the kids prefer the texture. When Jazzybee is in a picky mood, she has 'white' bread that is actually a mix of wheat and rye flours. I check ALL the labels because Bubbles has a mild allergy to Preservative 200/202, and even though its normally a dairy-food preservative, I'm still careful.

I'm actually not a fan of breads with actual bits of grain in them. Pepperidge Farm makes a whole wheat white bread (don't know if that's available down under). It's actually made with a different type of wheat, and is more of a cream color than regular white bread and is slightly heartier, but probably close enough to trick most kids. They also make a smaller size of regular wheat bread which I like (as in thinner/smaller slices than most).

[Whiskey]

I'm actually not a fan of breads with actual bits of grain in them. Pepperidge Farm makes a whole wheat white bread (don't know if that's available down under).

Wonderbread White Bread has less carbs, less sugar, same amount of calories, more protein and the same amount of fiber than the Very Thin whole wheat I'm not saying you have to change, or you should, but if you're eating it under the guise that its better for you, its simply not. "whole" and "wheat" don't mean better, lighter, or healthier. Hell, even "whole wheat" can be deceptive depending on the brand.

[TelephoneAngel]

today's food and drink diary -

got up with headache, took an ibuprofen tablet with a mouthfull of whole milk, then two sips of milky coffee with sweeter.Then one mouthful of pasta and mayonnaise.One packet of cheese and onion flavour scrisps (very small) oe small pieceof chocolate.

at work, 11.30 one tuna and mayonnaise sandwich, left the crusts.One bottle of original lucozade (not healthy) one packet of chocolate like m and m's,

home at 5.20 two slices of cheese on toast with tuna and tomato.half a cup of milky tea with sweetner.

Then more pasta and mayonnaise, with some cherryade probably, later in the evening.

[Magpie]

TelephoneAngel: do you have any breakfast food in the house? It's a lot easier to eat proper meals if you have proper food to eat.