Young Child Mean to Puppy

[Kisa]

I got a german shepherd pupster a while back. He is now 7 1/2 months old and is rapidly becoming an amazing dog. He is very gentle natured, very calm for a puppy, listens very well, is fully potty trained and leash trained, and is very friendly and loving. He has his naughty moments but, for the most part, he is a great pet.

As an example of his gentle nature, when he got fixed a few weeks ago, he wanted to cuddle and be petted and he wanted love and attention. He NEVER growled, snapped, bit or anything. Even when we had to put medicine on his sitches, he cried but not once growled or snapped at me or my mom. My last dog wanted to be left alone and was very irritable after the surgery. Puppy Power wanted to be with everyone 24/7, wanted tons of attention and human contact and even wated to play fetch!! I was amazed at how calm and sweet he was even while in so much pain.

My little brother, who is 4, is soooo mean to Puppy Power! For example, Puppy Power will be sitting down, relaxing, and my brother will walk up to him and slap him in the face for no reason. Puppy Power, being the gentle natured pup he is, just let out a short wimper, stared at Bro, then looked over at me as if to say, "Mom? Help"! It's usually like that too. It won't be, Puppy Power nips at Bro so Bro slaps him. It will be, Puppy Power is napping on the tiles and Bro walks over and kicks him. Or, Bro is petting Puppy Power and all of the sudden Bro decides to hit him really hard in the ribs.

Just today, Puppy Power was laying down chewing on a plastic tube toy he loves. Bro walked up, yaked it out of his mouth and bonked him on the nose when he reached for it. Puppy Power just kinda looked at him like, "what did I do"?
Later, Bro grabbed PP's sqweaky bone and ran away with it. PP, being a puppy, chased him. Bro lay down with the toy above his head and kicked PP in the gut when he tried to get his toy back.

Each time Bro hurts Puppy Power, we scold him and tell him that isn't nice, make him apologise and give Puppy a hug, and put him in time out for 4 minutes. My issue is, it doesn't seem to be working.

I kept trying to explain to him that Puppy Power is a living thing and can feel pain just like we can and that kicking him hurts as bad as if someone were to kick you.

I would like new ideas of how to get Bro to understand that he can't be mean to Puppy Power and/or ideas of why he behaves this way. Please, do not say to get rid of PP. He is a part of the family and we love him very much. If "get rid of the dog" is the only advice you have, please to not respond to this post.

[RetailWorkhorse]

Your kid brother... if he was mine he'd be a dead kid brother.

Kiddos don't understand that there are consequences to their actions (my aunt didn't understand until EQ and I actually attacked her for trying to tickle us. Our Mom gave us permission to break her damned arm).

KEEP KID BROTHER AWAY FROM PUPPY POWER would be my best advice. Let that Kiddo get nowhere near PP. Ya gotta protect your furkid, otherwise your furkid will finally have enough and nip at Kid Brother and you do noooooot wanna be a part of THAT fight.

[Eisa]

I don't suppose "get rid of your kid brother" is an acceptable answer, either...?

Honestly, yeah, keep them away. And I would say enforce stricter consequences on your kid brother as well when he does those things to your poor puppy. All puppies have a limit. You don't want your precious furball to reach his....

[Seshat]

Go back to the training manuals you read to train Puppy Power to be the lovely, obedient dog he is.

Use those techniques on Kid.

In the interim, don't let Kid and Puppy Power be in the same place unsupervised - and learn the signs that Kid is about to interact cruelly with Puppy Power. Stop Kid BEFORE the cruel interaction.

Also, with one adult holding Puppy Power, and the other adult holding Kid, teach Kid and Puppy Power acceptable interactions. For example, literally hold Kid's arm and demonstrate gently stroking Puppy Power's head. Have Kid repeat the movement. For a successful movement, give Kid an M&M and Puppy a treat. If Kid starts to whack Puppy Power instead, grab Kid's arm and make a sharp 'Kid! No!'

Yes, this is labour intensive. But it may be what it takes to teach Kid how to behave around Puppy Power.

Yes, this may mean that you have to go back to Kid having one child-gated-off section of the house, and Puppy Power another. Or Kid has playpens. Or Puppy Power has a cage. (I'd be inclined to go with Kid in playpen - it seems that Puppy Power won't be poking at Kid through the playpen bars, but Kid might try to annoy Puppy Power through cage bars.)

Good luck.

[Kanalah]

My sister was a lot like that as a child. Althought growing up we had more cats then dogs. Eventually it got to the piont that if my sister wanted to 'play' with the cats, she'd have to chase them down and drag them back to her room. They did thier best to avoid her like the plague.

Of course my parents did nothing. I don't think she understands that they are living creatures with a mind of thier own and not stuffed animals. Of course now she lives in my mom's hoarded house with 5 or 6 cats.

Anyway, I would make sure to always supervise them when they might be together. It's obvious that you trained PP very well if he doesn't snap or growl back. One thing that worked for my kids and my dog was that the dog had a "bed" where is the dog was there, they knew to leave him alone. And otherwise to play nicely. I did the "You don't want someone to hit you, so don't hit anyone, people or animals."

[AnaKhouri]

I don't know if this will work, as Khan is only 2, but he's very gentle with animals.

First, I made him understand that you never approach an animal without asking Mommy first. Maybe you could make a rule that Brother can't approach the dog without asking you first?

Then I just reiterated 'be gentle'. I would take his hand and show him the proper way to pet an animal. He does it on his own now.

I think by 4 he should be able to understand empathy to a degree. Maybe if you tell him he hurts the dog, and if he doesn't back off the dog won't like him and won't want to be his friend? Maybe he could understand that.

That must be really frustrating. Poor dog!

[Taurus52]

This will get cries of despair, but I will preface by saying, "the worst form of child abuse is INEFFECTIVE discipline!" If what you are doing doesn't work if HAVE to go the next step. In 25+ years having a daycare and foster kids in the house we never had a puppy nip or cat scratch. This is why: If the animal made sounds of distress Whack the kid! It has to happen where the Pup can see it. If the animal knows that you will defend it they are MUCH slower to do so themselves. If the kid understands that if they get nipped the dog will get a treat, they think about that. Discuss.

[AriGriffin]

If it were my child, I would consult a behaivorial therapist to see why he is acting out in an agressive manner towards PP. Maybe he is jealous of PP and can't express his feelings. A councilor would help him find a better way to express emotions. You don't want the agression turned towards you or other members of your family when he gets older.

[Seshat]

AriGriffin, that's a good point.

Kanalah's idea of the dog having a 'safe bed' to sleep on is another good idea - if Kid isn't likely to respect that, perhaps get Puppy Power a cage with very narrow bars, too small for Kid to get his hands through.

If anyone in the family is engineering-handy, rig some sort of system that shuts the door, lets Puppy Power let himself out, but Kid can't open the door from the outside. If you need ideas, I'll try to think of some - one thought is a pressure plate just on the inside of the door that releases a latch, so PP steps on the pressure plate and the door opens. But the latch should be kidproof in nature.

As for teaching PP it's a safe place: there's plenty of cage training websites and books. You seem to be skilled at Puppy-Power training.

Actually, I'll second Taurus' idea of teaching Puppy Power that it's the pack leaders' job to punish, and that if a pack junior (himself) announces genuine distress, the pack leaders will take appropriate action.

[Kogarashi]

I'll confess, my first thought was "what is wrong with your kid brother?" My oldest is 4, and she is plenty old enough to understand the first few times we correct her behavior around animals.

I'll second the comment that it would certainly seem the discipline you're using on Kid Brother is currently ineffective. He keeps repeating the bad behavior, therefore the time-outs aren't working. I think it's time to step up the punishment. Are there favorite priviledges that can be taken away? Might spanking or similar work? I'm not sure what discipline measures your mother prefers.

Also, counseling with someone who can better understand Kid's thought process might help. That sounds like some messed-up behavior to me (bear in mind, my oldest is the closest experience I have with that age category).

[Iris Kojiro]

I feel so horrible for that poor dog, and this hits home a lot. When I was little (like about that age), I was mean to animals too (on about kid brother's level) and STILL (25ish years later) feel crummy about it. I hope that child sees the error of his ways and makes it up to you all.

I second the idea of changing up the disciplinary tactics. You don't want to get caught up in an endless loop that doesn't give results. Hopefully this will make him change his mind about his treatment of other beings.

[blas]

He needs to get this problem fixed before he ends up growing up thinking it's alright to harm animals.

My dad was never taught to be gentle and kind to animals, even growing up on a farm. Fortunately, he never grew up to be an abuser or torturer, but he isn't very gentle with any of our pets. We all have our shouting moments because dad doesn't think anything of attempting to drag the dog outside if she doesn't follow him out, and he doesn't set the cat down when he's done holding him, he drops him and just depends on cats landing on all fours.

Granted, Bear the dog is getting VERY stubborn and entitled in her old age, but the worst you need to do is get behind her and nudge her behind with your knee and she will move. And it's MEAN to just drop a cat. Very mean.

[Seshat]

Heh. I often TRY to put Elderly Cat down, but she springs out of my arms and jumps.

[ShadowBall]

I cannot just drop my cats, especially since my female will not bother flipping herself over to land on her feet. I sometimes play with her by cradling her like an infant and then dropping her on something really soft from a height of a couple inches. I swear it doesn't hurt her - she loves it. But it's also kind of taught her to not try and land on her feet unless she falls a very considerable distance.

As far as your brother, I'd be smacking him. It's definitely clear time-outs don't work for whatever reason, and walloping a kid will usually drive the point home more than making them sit. Dogs who get knocked around as puppies could grow up to become overly defensive and aggressive and it'll be harder to handle in about a year if the dog is bigger, your brother decides to kick him in the ribs and then the dog takes a chunk out of him. Granted, I think your brother getting nipped might teach him a lesson, but I would just hate to see your pup get put down because he bites and someone thinks he's vicious.

I admit I played a little rough with my pets as a kid, and I learned real quick to not do that when I got bitten and scratched. But I know this might make some people even more inclined to hurt the animal. Like my mother...she'll spank her small dog when he misbehaves, and the dog may snap when he gets smacked, and then Mom will smack him again harder for snapping at her. The cycle just continues until the dog happens to not snap.

[blas]

Dropping a cat versus them jumping from your arms is different. Sometimes Tiger gets antsy and wants DOWN and you can't set him down fast enough.