How to deal with lovesick friend

[iradney]

First off - you need to take control of the visits. Why must you go to HIM every time? Meet somewhere neutral, where you have the option of saying "you're acting like an asshole, and I'm leaving" and then you CAN. If you leave the room, who's to say he's not going to storm after you and just barge his way in no matter what?

Secondly - HIS problems are just that. HIS. Not yours. He needs to grow the fuck up, put on his big boy pants and figure his shit out. You're not his therapist, you're not his mom, and a real friend would not burden someone they love with this shit. A REAL friend will share their problems, yes, but they would do something about it. Ben is not. Ben is doing a classic abusive maneuver wherein he makes you feel responsible for his feelings. And by making you responsible for his feelings, he can then move it up to making you feel responsible for his actions. Which is utter bullshit.

Your BF was in your life before Ben. How does HE feel about this?

Also, I swear to God, if you keep making excuses for him, I'm going to blow my nut. He's an adult. You're an adult. Right now he's acting like a childish immature little shit, he's messing around with YOUR feelings, YOUR thoughts, YOUR life. Why give him so much control?

[Seshat]

Secondly - HIS problems are just that. HIS. Not yours. He needs to grow the fuck up, put on his big boy pants and figure his shit out. You're not his therapist, you're not his mom, and a real friend would not burden someone they love with this shit. A REAL friend will share their problems, yes, but they would do something about it. Ben is not. Ben is doing a classic abusive maneuver wherein he makes you feel responsible for his feelings. And by making you responsible for his feelings, he can then move it up to making you feel responsible for his actions. Which is utter bullshit.

As I've said before, I have neurological problems which include my brain giving me false emotions. (IE: emotions generated solely neurochemically, not in response to my environment or my thoughts.)

Iradney is absolutely correct in regard to how I cope with it. I try not to burden my friends or family with it. I have discovered that they prefer to know when I'm suffering an episode of it, and some of them prefer - as in, voluntarily choose - to comfort me during an episode. But it's comforting, not talking me out of it. It's sitting with me, talking to me about anything at all. It is NOT taking blame. It is, quite literally, the equivalent of sitting with someone who's broken their arm while you wait for the ambulance.

Before I recognised what was going on, I would 'seek' for something to 'blame' the emotion on. I'd be angry at whatever trivial incident might have happened in the last few minutes, or depressed about whatever was going on (often about my body, or some other aspect of how horrible I perceived myself to be). Learning to recognise when there's nothing actually wrong was quite important.

Back to what Iradney was saying: yes, I do something about it. I have a cocktail of medications I take (it does help to live in Australia), I have a mental health nurse I see every week, I have a group therapy class I see every week. And I take responsibility for the problem. Not blame - the only 'blame' is my genetic luck. Or genetic bad luck. But I take responsibility. It's my problem to handle, as much as possible, with the assistance of the medical system and my carer.

[ShadowBall]

I meant to add one more thing...I think I may have let this crap go on for as long as I have because,for a little while, I was a little irritated with my boyfriend over him not talking much to me. I would feel so lonely and neglected and beg him to have conversations with me, and he would often say he simply had nothing to talk about. That always hurt my feelings and I think it kind of caused me to become more inclined to latch onto someone who would give me the time of day.

Then I got to know Ben and it was like a winning lottery ticket to have someone to have a real conversation with and who didn't take an hour and a half to respond (online conversation). Basically, I felt loved knowing someone actually wanted to talk to me (not in a romantic way...just loved in general). I never left or fell out of love with my boyfriend, though. But I think Ben's behavior escalating to an obsessive level made me realize that I was having TOO much attention paid to me.

I soon began to fall even more in love with my boyfriend and understood why he wasn't always the world's greatest conversationalist. I guess this is kind of like a couple dating other people, dealing with a couple of losers, and realizing the person they're with is right for them. I want to address my concerns at some point with Ben. The only thing is I worry he will harass my boyfriend on Facebook since me, Ben and BF all have accounts there. Ben threatened to be an asshole to BF over BF's recent Facebook post to me and I admit I did talk to him like he was a child and said, "Don't start any shit on Facebook. I know you're better than those drama queens who thrive on such things."

[Seshat]

I meant to add one more thing...I think I may have let this crap go on for as long as I have because,for a little while, I was a little irritated with my boyfriend over him not talking much to me. I would feel so lonely and neglected and beg him to have conversations with me, and he would often say he simply had nothing to talk about.

You'll notice that I only respond to conversations here if I have something to say.

There are a lot of people who are like that. 'Small talk' just doesn't happen. If there's not an actual 'something to discuss', we don't talk.

And we tend not to have a mental folder of 'possible small talk topics', like I vaguely think maybe other people do. Or something. Cause .. uh. Well, people who want to talk just to talk are confusing.

[Imprl59]

Ugh, why can't I be friends with sane people? I swear I'm a nut magnet. I have one guy friend who I know loves me very much and at one point said he wanted to marry me, but he actually accepts my relationship and has even spoken to my boyfriend before. Emotional Vampire told me he loved me too, but he was also a player and would hop from one woman to another. WHY Ben is so focused on me I will never know. If I ignore his obsessive behaviors, he and I actually have almost everything in common.

You can't be friends with sane people because you accept and encourage insane behavior from people. Ben is so focused on you because he is in love with you and you are pretending to be open and receptive to that love. Not saying he doesn't have BIG issues but at best you are inappropriately encouraging that behavior by going to visit and pretending you dont have a boyfriend.

[BookstoreEscapee]

If he harrasses you or the BF on Facebook, that's what the "block user" option is for. Problem solved.

[ArcticChicken]

There are a lot of people who are like that. 'Small talk' just doesn't happen. If there's not an actual 'something to discuss', we don't talk.

I'm one of those people. When I'm feeling lonely like you described, ShadowBall, I get my boyfriend on Skype, or on the phone, and we are just...together. We don't need to talk.

[ShadowBall]

Maybe my feelings of loneliness were misguided, but it doesn't change the fact that I still had them. Basically I realized partly on my own and partly through a mutual friend between myself and my BF that due to his home life being emotionally abusive, he will often use video games to escape (like WoW). Once I saw it like that, I stopped ragging on him and also stopped being angry. We talk and interact just fine when we're together in person, but it was hard in college when I could only see him every few months.

(And as a side note, BF is quite accepting of my male friends. I have told him about how me, a guy friend and two other women sexually tortured a gay male friend at Gay Friend's request. BF laughed like hell.)

Anyway, I had a nice long talk with Ben today and basically told him I felt he was obsessed with me and that I didn't like that he made me feel guilty about having a boyfriend. I told him I want him to tone down his behavior so we can have a friendship and not an obsession-ship. He admitted being jealous and emo (which I did not disagree with) and a few other names, but he said he would stop the pouty toddler tantrums over me not being single and also proceeded to ask me if certain other things he says or does (like telling naughty jokes - not in any way about myself or himself) were off-limits as well.

He wasn't happy, but he thanked me for being honest with him. I apologized only for taking so long to tell him. I spoke to him a bit later and we were talking more or less like normal, so we're still friends, but I think sans blatant obsession.

Basically he seems concerned with my comfort and is willing to make the effort to act like just a friend. He's also told me he feels I'm the only one in his life who cares about him and that's why he's willing to try and change; he thinks his parents only love him out of pity and obligation, his friends only care for him because he's there, no one will ever want to be more than just a friend or a fuck buddy, and overall people just tolerate him.

Honestly, this sounds a lot to me like depression. I don't know why he got off the anti-depressants he once took, but I think he could use them again if he feels this way. I know he's a bit of an outcast in his family - he's the "weird" atheist among a bunch of Catholics, but I'm sure that doesn't mean his family doesn't love him.

I had a very hard time having that conversation with Ben, but I'm glad I did. I definitely made sure he knew that I still very much want to be his friend, but the weirdness had to stop. I think he took it well.

[Seshat]

Maybe my feelings of loneliness were misguided, but it doesn't change the fact that I still had them.

I perhaps misspoke. I didn't mean that your feelings of loneliness were misguided. Simply that some people don't feel the same things for the same reasons, and thus are unaware (unless you tell them) that you have needs they don't have.

In this particular instance, don't expect your boyfriend to understand how to provide small talk, either. it's probably something he doesn't know how to do. You'll have to teach him, or guide him, or provide topics of conversation that you know he can go on about for hours.

But once he knows and understands your need, he should try. Even if all he does is make an attempt to ping you periodically with an 'I love you, and I'm thinking about you'.

[ShadowBall]

That's the thing...my BF and I don't have loads in common. He plays different video games than I do, or he'd always say he had nothing to talk about because he didn't have a job. I really did try to guide him as far as small talk, but often times it'd just be me talking to no one and then maybe an hour or two later he'd pipe up. I quit making a big deal out of it and just stopped making my sanity so dependent on him talking to me. I found I'm content with the occasional message of a virtual hug or kiss or "I miss you" or "I love you." I guess for a while, I was angry because I felt he didn't love me by not talking to me.

I guess I find it weird because when BF and I were getting to know one another (online), there were times we talked for hours and hours. Like I said, I think I realized that it was unrealistic to expect him to entertain me every moment, so I lowered my expectations and I think it's one of the things that helped me to not be mad with my BF all the time. I'm glad I did it.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Frankly, you should jettison the both of them and start over. I'd suggest dumping the boyfriend and giving Ben a chance, but the Sad Sack manipulation crap would be a huge deal breaker for me.

A friend of mine had one of these guys on her before she married but while she was dating her now-husband. She calls him (disparagingly, I might add) "Crying Rick". This poor pathetic bastard pretended to "attempt suicide" by throwing him down a flight of stairs in front of her.

The stair case consisted of four risers.

And he landed on, and injured, my friend.

Yeah. Crying Rick.

I wouldn't touch a dude like this with a ten foot pole while wearing a haz mat suit.

[MoonCat]

I'll keep my comments short: It is not your responsibility to get Ben out of his depression when he hears about your BF. That's HIS problem. He needs therapy. He needs to grow up. Don't own his immaturity, it's his, not yours.

I'm not suggesting you be mean, I'm suggesting you put a little emotional distance between you and Ben. Cool off the friendship a little and make it clear that you are living your own life, which currently includes a BF, and that is the way it's going to be. He needs to get his own emotional problems under control, and that's not your job to do.

[morgana]

Basically he seems concerned with my comfort and is willing to make the effort to act like just a friend. He's also told me he feels I'm the only one in his life who cares about him and that's why he's willing to try and change; he thinks his parents only love him out of pity and obligation, his friends only care for him because he's there, no one will ever want to be more than just a friend or a fuck buddy, and overall people just tolerate him.

Honestly, this sounds a lot to me like depression. I don't know why he got off the anti-depressants he once took, but I think he could use them again if he feels this way. I know he's a bit of an outcast in his family - he's the "weird" atheist among a bunch of Catholics, but I'm sure that doesn't mean his family doesn't love him.

I think he took it well.

I think he's still trying to manipulate you.

But maybe that's just because that up there sounds EXACTLY, like he could be QUOTING, like my ex-husband. Who, oh wait, really WAS a manipulative bastard.

I doubt the drama with this guy is over. I really, really doubt it. I'd bet money that he'll be back to the obsessive/emo/pouting shit in no time at all.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly apologize to the man. If he actually takes it to heart and becomes a real friend to you (he's not, right now), I'll take my hat off to him.

If.

[georgie]

it sounds like hes still using emotional blackmail on you.

i have depression and there are many times when im feeling the blackness hit that i dwell in self pity getting all those nobody likes me, everybody hates me thoughts.
when im feeling like that i separate myself from others and take time to heal and lift the mood.

from what you've written it sounds like Ben is using those times to manipulate you still.


can i ask, is it always you visiting him or does he ever visit you? if he doesnt visit you why not?


now that you've had the talk with him you need to gird your spine with steel and pull him up every single time he has a tantrum over hearing your bf mentioned.

he has to prove that he can be a proper friend to you and treat you and your relationship with respect.



to be honest with you, if he was my friend, i would have given him the "grow some balls and stop acting like a fool" talk ages ago. if he then continued to act silly or angry when bf's name was mentioned i would have then told him i cant be friends with someone who hates my bf so much. bye bye


part of the problem here is you and at least you do see that. by not saying anything the first or second time he got angry it basically allowed him to carry on doing it.

hopefully now that you've talked to him it may curb him a bit.
fingers crossed for you

[ShadowBall]

As said, I guess my past has kind of made me unable to see when people are being over emotional and jealous and such until it's really bad. I stuck around as Emotional Vampire's friend long after he began making sexual comments and advances toward me, even.

I guess I find it very hard to believe that Ben is willing to change (and I am seeing some improvement) and somehow be manipulative in spite of that change. Why would he be concerned about making me feel uncomfortable or awkward if he was just trying to weasel his way closer to me? That doesn't make sense - manipulators want their needs met ASAP and a delay like this wouldn't work for someone like that.

And no, I'm not leaving my BF either . He's not OMG the most perfect to ever live, but he makes me happy. I can still look in his eyes and tell him I love him and mean it, so why the hell would I dump him? Unlike some folks, I just cannot bring myself to throw away the important people in my life like trash. Also, it was my EX who threatened suicide if I left, not my current guy. I would never spend weeks getting away from an asshole just to be with another one (yes, it did take weeks because my ex was doing that whole "I don't approve of this break-up, so we're still together even if you don't want to be" thing and stalked us for a bit).

But in any case, I'm willing to give Ben a chance and he is keeping his word thus far. If anything epic happens, I'll be sure to update.