not entierly sure how this may end

[cheerfulnyu]

so theres this person who i work with that until about 2 months ago i loved dearly
until she decided that she was going to be with someone whos like a brother to me
that was painful but thee worst part was i had recently found out that she was telling
anyone that we work with that would listen to her that i was a rapist, why?

because of a camping trip that we had gone on about 4 months ago,
there was drinking involved and from what ive been told was i had slept with her,
but the problem is i dont remember very much from that night due to the amount i had had, im pretty sure from looking at the empty cans i had in my bag the morning after i shouldnt have been able to stand let alone do anything else,


the problem is she went and got tested after that camping trip (she was clean), the place she went to had sent her a bill for about $300 in early december and she seems to think i should give her atleast half that seeing as she thinks that its all my fault that she had to go in the first place


edit: forgot to mention at the time of this camping btrip she was 17 and i was 20
(the legal age of concent in australia is 16)

the real worry i have is that when she relises that im not giving her any sort of money (hey she could have gone to the hospital to get checked, its free there) that she could she might decide to report that she was raped (which i dont beleive, because as i said earlier i had no idea what happened that night) which would leave me in a world of shit

any advice on what i should do?
other then give her the money because that'll never happen

[Andara Bledin]

If you were so drunk that you cannot even remember what happened, wouldn't she be the one guilty of rape, seeing as how you were incapable of legally consenting?

I'm not sure how the law works in Australia, but since she seems to remember what happened and you do not, that it is likely that she was more competent at that point.

^-.-^

[sms001]

Lawyer up immediately. Be totally honest with them and give EVERY detail you CAN remember.

Were there other people on this camping trip?

I'm going to guess that things will go your way, as she did an STD check but didn't report a rape at the time of the incident, but being called a rapist is a pretty serious charge that you should take extraordinary measures to protect yourself against.

[Jester]

If you were so drunk that you cannot even remember what happened, wouldn't she be the one guilty of rape, seeing as how you were incapable of legally consenting?

Not necessarily. It is certainly possible that a guy could get so drunk that he might attempt to force himself on a girl and not remember it. Yeah, I know, if he was that drunk, it is unlikely that everything would work--but since when does logic and rational thought have anything to do with someone who's shitfaced?

I am not saying that is what happened. I have no idea what did happen. Apparently, neither does the OP.

As I see it, there are basically four possibilities as to what happened:
1. Nothing happened, and the woman's making the whole thing up for some reason known only to her.
2. Something did happen that she misunderstood, that he meant as affectionate but she took as something else. Say, he was hitting on her in what he thought in his drunken stupor was romantic and cute, but she took it the wrong way.
3. Not realizing what he was doing, he actually did try to force himself on her in some way.
4. He actually did rape her.

All of these are possibilities. They may not be possibilities that the OP wants to face, but they are indeed possibilities. Not knowing the OP, I cannot say myself which is the most likely. None are excluded due to his intoxication, as even very drunk guys can manage to "get it up" at various times. To put it bluntly, whiskey does not always mean whiskey dick. And it bears remembering that even if a man cannot achieve an erection, he can still rape or sexually assault someone; standard intercourse is not the only form of rape.

And yes, even nice guys can do some of these. I know from experience; when I was 20 I was guilty of #3. Or at least, that's what I was told the next day, by the girl in question, who I was somewhat dating at the time. (I had zero memory of the night and incident in question.) She knew I was drunk (hammered is more like it), and she knew I meant well, but apparently I was getting way too handsy and way too pushy for her liking. I was, naturally, utterly horrified, since that is so completely out of character for me. We talked things over, and she was very understanding; I was far harder on myself than she was. We ended up dating for a little while after that. So, yeah, even a nice guy, a self-proclaimed gentleman, someone who respects women, considers himself a feminist, and has spent his life railing against abusive men and rape like myself, can fall into this alcoholic trap. Hardly the advertising campaign that the alcohol merchants of the world would ask for, I'm sure.

So, what can the OP do? I don't know. He doesn't remember, and she claims that X happened. Unless there was anyone else there that can corroborate, refute, or correct the story she is telling, it's hard to say what actually happened. And without knowing what happened, it's just about impossible to say what the OP should do.

I do have one question for the OP: The woman in question, that you said you loved dearly until all this--in your experience and opinion, is she generally a truthful person? Or is she known for lying, exaggerating, and/or being a drama queen? If the answer is the former, you may want to consider the possibility that you may have done something completely out of character while you were drunk, and you may need to consider possible courses of actions that you hadn't considered up to that point.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[cheerfulnyu]

jester, she does have a tendency to lie, shes told me some big ones

but to clear up yes there were a couple of other people on that trip, there was one of her friends, i hadnt met her before that and i havnt seen her since, and there was also my best friend- the guy whos like a brother, i remember the start of the trip but nothing after we arrived at the camping site.

so this camping trip happened late september, the person who was saying those accusations, lets call her B was saying that stuff a few days after the trip, i didnt find out about any of what she had said til about mid december thanks to my friends at work, they had kept it from me only because they knew i wouldnt have taken it well and were worried i would have done something, the work friends lets call them C, M, R, T and Z keep telling me to not worry about this because in their words "even if she does report this there wouldnt be a way to prove anything did happen"
despite that i still worry as even if the accusation is made to the police the accusation itself would be forever on my currently non-existent record.


so tonight in my few hours at work before i had to leave i found out from Z that B had told her that "i(being me) was suicidal over her, an alcoholic and a rapist"
i can prove that the first 2 are wrong but that last one i cannot with certainty prove either way(the either way being i did or didnt)

im not sure if that covered anything, brain was switched off for most of it seeing as its currently 4:51 am as i type this

[Jester]

You haven't seen her friend since then, and probably have no way to contact her (though the internet is an amazing thing), but you certainly are in contact with your best friend; what does HE say about the whole thing?

And now we can say that either she is a drama queen making shit up about your, or that something happened and she is embellishing the reality. Hard to say, of course. After all, just because she is lying about the suicidal and alcoholic parts doesn't automatically discount her more serious accusation. It tends to discredit her, yes, but there is a mountain of difference between "discredited" and "flat out liar."

My guess, based on nothing more than what you have said here, is that she is basically full of shit, and telling stories for reasons known only to her. Try to have as little contact with her as possible, preferably none at all.

[PepperElf]

If you were so drunk that you cannot even remember what happened, wouldn't she be the one guilty of rape, seeing as how you were incapable of legally consenting?

I'm not sure how the law works in Australia, but since she seems to remember what happened and you do not, that it is likely that she was more competent at that point.

^-.-^

Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way.

Lawyer up immediately. Be totally honest with them and give EVERY detail you CAN remember.

This. Securing a lawyer is the best thing to do next. Before you talk to anyone else - especially HER - talk to legal council.


And don't pay anything to her - not before you talk to your lawyer. Any payment might be construed as an admission of guilt. And she might use that against you in a court of law - or in her personal attacks against you.

And her "remembering" but you not... it could be that you were too drunk to remember, but it could also be that she doesn't know and decided to pin it on someone - anyone.


so yeah... talk to a lawyer.



also... I was thinking. She was tested - it sounds like for STDs. But ... was she tested for bodily fluids? (like a rape kit?)
It may be something to consider. That right there may make it "he said/she said".

In fact since she's saying this at work, it ... yeah, get a lawyer.

[MoonCat]

Do I need to add, in the meantime do not drink? Or at least only drink a very little? You do not want to end up in this position again. You do not want anyone saying, "look, he's doing it again." You do not want to get loaded and babble god-knows-what that might sound incriminating. Stay on the straight and narrow until this is resolved, and consider not drinking that much at one time anymore.

Sorry if I sound preachy. I have seen lives ruined by alcohol, and throwing in a one-time friend who seems hell-bent on causing trouble doesn't help. Get the lawyer. Good luck.

[sms001]

Adding to Jester's possibilities:

5. B seduced/took advantage of cheerful.
a. Regretting it the next day, she spins her story.
b. Fine with it until later when needing money for the STD check, she changes the story.
c. Fine with it until she realizes it is going to have repercussions in her new relationship w/ LikeABrother.

6. Both of them were ready, willing, and able at the time. Both remember nothing.
a. Same as above, but particulars made up out of whole cloth.

7. Nothing at all happened.
Not many would count on cheerful being blacked out enough to not remember this, but it is certainly in the realm of possibility.

Seriously cheerful, it was bad enough before, but in Australia accusations stay on some sort of record? I'll take what I think about that to fratching, but it reinforces your need for a litigator. This isn't fifth grade kiss and tell, this is life damaging slander.

[Jester]

Well technically, even in the U.S. accusations stay on the record, if a police report is filed. Usually those won't come up on a background check, but they can still come up for police and sometimes for people who know how to work the system. Unlikely on a standard background check, though, unless there is an arrest made or warrant issued.

[Pixilated]

*snip* Securing a lawyer is the best thing to do next. Before you talk to anyone else - especially HER - talk to legal council.

And don't pay anything to her - not before you talk to your lawyer. Any payment might be construed as an admission of guilt. And she might use that against you in a court of law - or in her personal attacks against you.

And her "remembering" but you not... it could be that you were too drunk to remember, but it could also be that she doesn't know and decided to pin it on someone - anyone.

so yeah... talk to a lawyer.
*snip*

Another vote for "hie thee hence to a lawyer -- BEFORE you do anything else, including offer her any money" (I know you said you weren't going to, but just in case you are re-thinking it ...) A lawyer will be able to give you the best advice under Australian law.

[cheerfulnyu]

I have no idea on what my best friend has to say on this because he won't talk about it, as in if that weekend gets brought up he will eith ignore it or change the subject

As for her relationship with him as gar as I know there are no complications seeing as when I pointed out the level of hurt I was feeling when they got together she told me to grow up and get over it

There's no need to talk to her, ever and I've told the rostering manager that the less she gets rostered with me the better (which given her Linda limited availability means she's not going to have as many shift as she used to)


I'm going to look around the legal section of the phone book tomorrow and see what options there are

As for the drinking I havnt felt like it since that weekend so there's no worry in that regard

I have tried to contact her friend a couple of times since then, I've sent her a couple of messages to try and start a conversation and then steer it toward that weekend but I've gotten no response

Also my best friend seems kinda intent on making me be around her
Despite me telling him that I'll hang out with him(and I have been) but of she's there then I won't be

[Jester]

Considering the seriousness of her allegations against you, you need to let your best friend know in no uncertain terms that (A) you need to know what he saw or didn't see that weekend, and (B) he needs to stop making it so you two are around each other.

If he can't or won't understand these two basic things, his friendship with you should be questioned....severely.

[cheerfulnyu]

the next time is see him ill be asking him that stuff
he tries to get me to hang out arounder but i never go is shes there


i have questioned the friendship a lot since early december but the memories from the last 5 years of knowing him have been enough to justify keeping him around

[Pixilated]

Considering the seriousness of her allegations against you, you need to let your best friend know in no uncertain terms that (A) you need to know what he saw or didn't see that weekend, and (B) he needs to stop making it so you two are around each other.

If he can't or won't understand these two basic things, his friendship with you should be questioned....severely.

Second this. If you don't want to lose your friend entirely, tell him that if he doesn't stop pressuring you, you are going to have to stay away from him as well until this is sorted out. I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish by basically forcing you into each other's company, but whatever it is, I don't see how it can end well.