Communication confusion

[Maria]

So, I've been called some really offensive names, for getting basic verbal communication all wrong, and I don't think I'm getting it wrong. So I'm just... wanting to throw this situation out there and see what y'all think. My sister screams at me often for being dysfunctional, and... I'm just confused. Here's what happened today... I'll just summarize the exchange.

Her: says something about how her phone won't work until next week
Me: mentions she forgot to call me back last week, asks if she can do that when her phone works
Her: goes off on a rant at me for being so horribly demanding, says I'm calling her a liar, finding 2-3 ways to repeat each of those basic points.
Me: scrolls back to be sure I really did ONLY mention that she forgot to call me back last week, then scrolls down to say "sorry, that's not what I meant at all." (she has promised to always return calls, but, you know, everybody forgets, I figured she forgot until she made this "liar" comment)
Her: Goes off about how she told me three days ago, in text messages, to call her again, and leave a second message, before she would call me back (which admittedly I didn't do at that time, because the request was so dang confusing)

Me: oooookay.... asks her if she still wants me to call her and leave another message.
Her: rants about how I'm demanding, calling her a liar, etc.. repeats the whole thing, then yells at me for
Her: rants about how I'm insisting on the conversation being my way, and not listening, and that when I ask a question, she'll "gladly" answer it, and she's not going to have any more of me insisting on controlling the conversation and making her do everything my way. Logs off.

Me in email: Repeats each of the questions I asked. Mentions where she blew by it, ranted at me (incoherently but I left that word out!), and says that that sounds an awful lot like what she's accusing me of.

Her, in email: repeats that I'm *still* not responding to what she said, and I have to do that *before* I am allowed to ask questions (which, as you notice... I asked before the first rant). Says she's willing to pretend to have a dysfunctional relationship with me, but that's all it will be (I assume she meant dysfunctional, and not pretend, but maybe she meant both? I don't know).

Me, in email: Wait, are you angry because I didn't restate your entire thing before re-asking my question? (and she's now ignoring email for the rest of the day, which in retrospect I think is very wise, because one of us has obviously gone stark raving mad).

Now... what I'm wondering is... would this be something you would expect? If you ask a question and the person goes off on a rant at you, do you feel they expect you to "respond to" their rant by restating their points, and then re-ask your question before they have any obligation to answer? Is it dysfunctional to ask a question about what somebody wants you to do, and be confused when the person rants incoherently about some imagined wrong, instead of answering the question? I'm so confused. And I'm frustrated and upset and I'm losing my sister because I can't understand why she calls me dysfunctional and self-centered and hateful, and... can anybody explain to me what I did wrong? I don't get it.

[Draper Mel]

I don't think you got anything wrong. From this example, it seems like she's going off half cocked.

This seems kind of similar to the way my sisters interact with each other. There's some sort of old tension between them that they just won't address, and whenever one of them says something innocuous, the other one immediately assumes there's some sort of underlying sarcasm or dig intended, so she goes into attack mode, instead of just taking things at face value. And this goes both ways with them.

I wish I had an answer for you. Try to keep your end of things from getting emotional or defensive. Stick with the facts of the situation and don't bring up stuff from the past. Look for a book or some websites about dealing with difficult people or how to argue effectively.

And get a large bottle of your headache remedy of choice.

[PepperElf]

So, I've been called some really offensive names

she calls me dysfunctional and self-centered and hateful

So she's calling you offensive names, but YOU'RE the one who's hateful?


Personally... it sounds like she's getting you tied up in knots inside, where you're the one in the wrong, you're the one who has to appease her, and you're the one who has to figure out what it was etc.

i know it's hard cos you want to smooth things over, but sometimes it's OK to be the one who cuts the conversation off first. Like as soon as she starts name-calling say, "I'm done!" and shut off the IMs.

You don't have to put up with being called names for any reason. It's abusive behavior.

[Gizmo]

She needs to calm down. And why on earth do you need to leave another message to remind her to do something she has text messages about?

She sounds worse than mine... which is impressive - in a bad way!

[Maria]

So she's calling you offensive names, but YOU'RE the one who's hateful?
....
You don't have to put up with being called names for any reason. It's abusive behavior.

Thank you for saying these things. This is how I have felt, but I wasn't sure it was right, because she says that feeling like this is proof that I'm self-centered. And... you know, I generally keep a distance from people because I have, in the past, been hurt by letting others too close, so... I don't always know stuff. I've researched a lot because of that... but even still, things sometimes elude me, or I misunderstand what the book was saying. Which was why I decided to ask.

And DraperMel... with the... the..

whenever one of them says something innocuous, the other one immediately assumes there's some sort of underlying sarcasm or dig intended, so she goes into attack mode, instead of just taking things at face value. And this goes both ways with them.

That. I feel like you described the situation so well here... thank you. It helps to see it in somebody else's words, sometimes. The more I learn on my own, from books and examples, the more I wonder if she's using my introvert-learning-communication status to her advantage, unfairly. I'm really glad I asked for help and external feedback, instead of just trying to figure it out on my own. Thanks.

Oh, just saw you there, too, Gizmo... thank you also. I agree with what you said, but I find it hard to trust myself on the topic of communication. I appreciate the feedback. And I'm relieved that I'm not the only one with a difficult family... I mean, I know that, but it's easy to feel alone just the same, at times. I feel so much better about dealing with the situation now. (And this is WHY I tend to avoid communication... I like hanging out here with y'all, but I go all mushy and emotional and... blech. I'm always afraid y'all won't like me if I open my mouth!)

[MoonCat]

This is how I have felt, but I wasn't sure it was right, because she says that feeling like this is proof that I'm self-centered

So getting upset when she calls you names means you're self-centered?? That's total B.S. and it's a dirty trick that she pulls to get you to back down. Whatever you do, don't ever accept other people's nasty names for you. Even if she has a legitimate complaint against you, that's not the way to deal with it.

[Kristev]

Making you feel like you deserve the abuse is typical for an abuser.

[Seshat]

<points up>

They've already said the key things, except for one.

I feel y'all won't like me if I open my mouth

... oh honey, who hurt you so badly, and for so long, that you feel like this?

[42_42_42]

You weren't in the wrong. Your sister was. Her behavior toward you in the exchange you related was unexcusable. She's accusing you of all the things she herself is guilty of.

[Maria]

... oh honey, who hurt you so badly, and for so long, that you feel like this?

*points up at the original post, in answer*

Okay okay seriously... because I'm all touchy-feely and I see things in an offbeat way, and people often find that too weird!

I showed her the thread... she challenged me to ask another opinion, so.. I said I had.. she wanted proof. We can now add "delusional" to the list of things that I supposedly am... I'm starting to see some of what you all might be getting at, and incidentally what my high school psychology teacher was talking about. Telling others that they are unacceptable is wholly different from stating your opinion that their words or actions are unacceptable.

[Rapscallion]

Someone said something in another thread where there was an odd situation - read your story as if it was happening to someone else and think about what you'd advise them to do.

Rapscallion

[PepperElf]

Telling others that they are unacceptable is wholly different from stating your opinion that their words or actions are unacceptable.

Exactly. There's a difference in saying "what you DID was horrible" and saying "YOU are horrible". One is about actions and the other is a personal attack.


Although I wouldn't personally suggest showing her the thread though. To me that's a bit like saying, "see everyone else thinks you're wrong too!" It may or may not help.


I'd personally just say... you can love her without talking to her. If she's going to continue to give you verbal abuse, then it's ok to excuse yourself and walk away. Let her be the one who comes to you to patch things up... you don't have to be the one trying to fix things when she's the one insulting you.

[42_42_42]

IMHO, you're better off just not talking to her, since all she does is belittle you and try to make you feel like you are crazy. I know she's you're sister, but that doesn't require you to be in this toxic relationship with her.

[Seshat]

My best friend trained her father to act acceptably towards her. I'm going to tell you how she did it, in case the same technique works with your sister. It might, it might not. If this technique doesn't work, there may be others which do - or maybe not.


It starts with one of the principles in my sig. "If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do."

She picked one of his misbehaviours, and told him she would no longer tolerate it around her. He was, of course, upset and offended; she simply waited until he went into the misbehaviour - and then left.

She would accept phone calls, or make phone calls, but if he went into the misbehaviour, she would hang up.
She'd visit him, or he could visit us, but the moment he misbehaved, she'd leave. Or invite him to leave (withdrawing permission to be on our premises - ie, he was now trespassing).


In this case - my best friend and her father - the problem was fixed within a week. Oh, there have been relapses and she's had to leave or hang up, but the amount of time between relapses is getting longer and longer. I think it's been six months since the last one.

On the other hand, I'm still having only very carefully controlled contact with my blood-family: their behaviour isn't changing, so I'm controlling mine to protect myself.


It's worth thinking about my friend's technique. Even if that exact technique doesn't 'feel' right in your case, maybe it'll prompt another idea.

[BroSCFischer]

First of all, Maria, the only way to get better at communicating, is to communicate with others. All the reading/studying in the world isn't going to help improve this skill.

And guess what: this is the kind of thing the fine people at CS.com really enjoy doing (communicating).

Second, your sister sounds similar to mine:

-She always has to be right, even when she most assuredly isn't.

-She says hurtful things, and then expects everything to be alright.

-If things aren't exactly her way, she has a fit.

And I now haven't communicated to this sister in more than a year.

I'm just saying, there comes a breaking point, and I think it needs to be considered whether you have reached it or not. Definitely give Seshat's suggestion some consideration.

(And this is WHY I tend to avoid communication... I like hanging out here with y'all, but I go all mushy and emotional and... blech. I'm always afraid y'all won't like me if I open my mouth!)

I understand the feeling, but if you've seen many of the posts on here, you really don't need to be (I also know that saying that probably isn't going to change much, at least not right away).

Between Jay2KWinger demanding everyone's pants, me and my parodies, and some of the things said in chat (just read the Chat Quotes thread), I'm certain that if you let it all hang out, we'd be just as accepting of you.

Okay okay seriously... because I'm all touchy-feely and I see things in an offbeat way, and people often find that too weird!

BTW, we are ALL a little offbeat and weird here.

SC