Are you serious or just messing with me?

[orcprincess]

Some of the best wine I have every drunk were "cheap" bottles or clearskins. Price is not always indicitive of quality. I once tasted Dom Perignon and honestly, I dont know what all the fuss is about. I found it quite average and outrageously overpriced (even if I wasnt paying)

My fave bottle of wine is a $5 bottle of Gallo merlot. Yummy.
Went to Vegas got married, and had a $30 glass of crap...told honey to take me to the 7-11 or whatever it was and we got my wine, and I was happy.

[csquared]

though my sauerbraten is to die for ... i need to make some this weekend. Ill start tomorrow.

When is dinner? This is one topic that I am in complete disagreement with Irv. Oh well, more for me.

LECTURE TIME! (yay I get to share info!)

Somehow I knew KiaKat would be posting on this thread. If you are ever in my area, could I talk you into leading a wine tasting?

However, back to topic...
I think that he wines you are serving should be appropriate for the food you are serving. As it is an Italian Restaurant, they should be wines that go good with the Italian foods you serve. That does not mean that they have to be Italian wines or even Italian style.

That being said, I can not think of a German wine that I would want with any Italian food that I have ever had. But, that is MY opinion. (KiaKat, do you have a recommendation?)

As for the question its self, you can assume the answer or you can ask and confirm it. Just be polite about it.

If your wine list stated "We only serve Italian Wines", then it becomes a whole different story.


On the topic of wine prices, and the Italian-German theme...
The Wife & I attended a wine tasting dinner at a local German restaurant. They served seven different wine through out the dinner. After dinner, we voted on the wines. The votes were tallied and the owner told us about each of the wines. The voting was exactly opposite the price. In last place was the most expensive bottle of wine. The winner of the vote... The $11.00/bottle Chianti.

[KiaKat]

Somehow I knew KiaKat would be posting on this thread. If you are ever in my area, could I talk you into leading a wine tasting?

Most likely. I really enjoy educamating people

That being said, I can not think of a German wine that I would want with any Italian food that I have ever had. But, that is MY opinion. (KiaKat, do you have a recommendation?)

Yup. Gewurztraminer. When produced in a dry style, it's a beautifully spiced and floral wine that goes incredibly well with some of the lighter seafood or vegetable dishes famous throughout Italy. Traminer is actually a grape you'll find in certain parts of northern Italy, usually around Alto Adige or Tyrol, and rarely in the Friuli area.

Also, German Pinot Noirs, Dornfelders, and Pinot Meuniers (Schwarzriesling - a mutation of Pinot Noir typically used in Sparkling wine outside Germany) tend to be wonderful pairings for lighter Italian dishes. I wouldn't put them with a heavy beef or lamb dish, but the dusty earthiness of all three goes beautifully with pork.

On the topic of wine prices, and the Italian-German theme...
The Wife & I attended a wine tasting dinner at a local German restaurant. They served seven different wine through out the dinner. After dinner, we voted on the wines. The votes were tallied and the owner told us about each of the wines. The voting was exactly opposite the price. In last place was the most expensive bottle of wine. The winner of the vote... The $11.00/bottle Chianti.

And this doesn't surprise me in the least

Most wine drinkers have palates that are used to a certain set of flavours. Chianti, especially modern inexpensive Chiantis that are mostly (90%+) Sangiovese along the line of a Supertuscan, appeal greatly to the normal palate. That's also one reason why the Robert Parker (not the mystery writer, the wine reviewer) scale of 100 points appeals so much. The wines that tend to get the 90-100 point ratings are the huge, high-alcohol, overblown fruit-and-spice filled, oaked-to-within-an-inch-of-their-life wines.

And this is one of the reasons I really, really, really, *really* want to open my own store and bar. I want to be able to run classes geared towards introducing the normal person to the unusual wines, and helping people to understand why wines are created in the styles that are so popular, and why those wines aren't really as good as the point scales want you to think. I've managed to get both my mom and my sister onto the more unusual wines, and neither one is particularly educated in the food-and-wine field (although my sister is a supertaster). It's FUN!

[AccountingDrone]

When is dinner? This is one topic that I am in complete disagreement with Irv. Oh well, more for me.

It was sunday .... =) and quite yummy. Left it marinating while mrDrone and I went to my mums for the weekend, cooked it when we got back.

And Irv needs to get settled down with some real good german home cooking ... I have never had good german food in any restaurant in the US. Maybe if he names some 'american' foods he likes, I can give him the original german recipe for it. Most people don't realize how much american food is actually just european cooking given english names.

Most likely. I really enjoy educamating people


And this is one of the reasons I really, really, really, *really* want to open my own store and bar. I want to be able to run classes geared towards introducing the normal person to the unusual wines, and helping people to understand why wines are created in the styles that are so popular, and why those wines aren't really as good as the point scales want you to think. I've managed to get both my mom and my sister onto the more unusual wines, and neither one is particularly educated in the food-and-wine field (although my sister is a supertaster). It's FUN!

So, what would the great young seriously leggy sweet red local plonk I got in Perpignon France be and can I get it in the US?

[KiaKat]

Hmm. I'd need a bit more info to go on. Do you know the label, or the name of the cave or winemaker?

Most of the wines from that region are (if red) a blend of Grenache, Carignan, and Merlot. From your description, I'd guess mostly Carignan and Merlot, as those produce fruitier wines with either illusory sweetness or a touch of sugar. Given the legginess (thin legs? Quick moving?) you mention, I'd guess majority Carignan. Did it have an almost bubble-gum note? Or was it more jammy?

I can think of a couple wineries from that region, but I've not been impressed with what they produce. If you can come up with a bit more info, I might be able to find you either the wine, or a similar one.

In the meantime, go into your local wine store (make sure they're a specialty, not a general liquor store) and ask the buyer/owner/manager if they have or can get any Vin de Pays des Pyrénées-Orientales. If they do, ask which ones are on the medium-sweet (off-dry/demi-sec) side.

[AccountingDrone]

Hmm. I'd need a bit more info to go on. Do you know the label, or the name of the cave or winemaker?

Most of the wines from that region are (if red) a blend of Grenache, Carignan, and Merlot. From your description, I'd guess mostly Carignan and Merlot, as those produce fruitier wines with either illusory sweetness or a touch of sugar. Given the legginess (thin legs? Quick moving?) you mention, I'd guess majority Carignan. Did it have an almost bubble-gum note? Or was it more jammy?

I can think of a couple wineries from that region, but I've not been impressed with what they produce. If you can come up with a bit more info, I might be able to find you either the wine, or a similar one.

In the meantime, go into your local wine store (make sure they're a specialty, not a general liquor store) and ask the buyer/owner/manager if they have or can get any Vin de Pays des Pyrénées-Orientales. If they do, ask which ones are on the medium-sweet (off-dry/demi-sec) side.

Came in a pitcher, it literally is the local plonk - probably had a vintage *week*

Hm, very rich and jammy, sweet without being sticky sweet. A very deep velvety red/garnet. Not tannic at all, slight rosemary and an almost seasalt note [coming from the med coast, I would expect the rosemary note in it] no pepper note at all.

I liked it way better than the local plonks from Normandy/Loire. [when in europe, I like to drink the local and frequently tavern fermented plonks. They are frequently quite good and very cheap. Best sangria I ever had was in a tiny roadside place in Zaragoza that looked like a retiree from Legio Septima Gemina started the place and it had been there ever since. Of course the guy that ran it looked like he had been there back then also ]

[XCashier]

I took six years of German in junior high and high school. Each year in high school we'd take a field trip down to Milwaukee, where we'd visit the German Immersion School, some import shop out in Brookfield, and then have lunch at Mader's, which is an authentic German restaurant in downtown Milwaukee.

We always had the sampler plate, which consisted of of sauerbraten (I just can't get used to the idea of roast beef tasting like a gingerbread cookie), wienerschnitzel (meh), spaetzle (meh), sauerkraut (no. Just...no) and some kind of potato dumpling which I didn't find too tasty either.

Hm. I took German in High School (only one year), but when the teacher held Oktoberfest, she brought in some really good food from the local German restaurant. I remember eating some very nice bratwurst and kartoffelsalat. Sorry you had such a bad experience, some German food is quite tasty.

[Chromatix]

I don't drink much alcohol at all, but when it is socially expected to drink wine, I have a couple of rules of thumb.

1) Try the second-cheapest white wine on the menu. It'll probably be at least inoffensive. If there's a clear choice between sweet and dry, I go for the dry side, but that's a personal choice.

2) If there's a reasonably-priced rosé, that's probably a good way to get a wine that's had a little thought behind making it. Rosé is by defintion a blend of wines. But depending on the company, it may look a little pretentious to order it.

Obviously, I'm no connoisseur.

[KiaKat]

Rose can actually be made one of two ways. Either by blending red and white wines, or by taking red grapes, leaving the juice in contact with the skins just long enough to add some colour and a bit of flavour, then draining off the juice for fermentation and maturation. Roses are generally made to drink young (no more than three years, if that), and should not be prefaced by "white" in the name. That indicates a blush, rather than a true rose (the difference in winemaking styles is a whole other class I can teach by PM if anyone is interested).

Some of my favourites are; Mas de Gourgonnier, from Provence, France, Muga, from Rueda, Spain, Rosa Regaleali from Sicily(?), Italy, and Schadler's Pinot Noir Rose from Germany. Frankly, most American wineries haven't yet mastered the art of Rose. Most of them are still making blushes, which are similar, but have had sugar added to offset the fact that the grapes they use (usually Zinfandel or Merlot) are underripe, which is necessary to have a thin enough skin to avoid adding any tannins to the wine, and therefore incredibly acidic (sugar and acid are opposite qualities during growing, just like sugar/alcohol during production).

I adore Roses.

A great thing to do is find two or three labels in each category (white, rose, red, sparkling, dessert, fortified) that you like. When you go to a restaurant, ask if they have something similar to "X" if you don't see it on the menu. If the waiter is worth their chops, they'll be able to either say "yes, try this" or "could you tell me a bit more so I can better help you."

Speaking of, I should finish my glass of wine and get to bed, before I ramble everyone's eyes out of their heads