Vista or XP?

[lordlundar]

Yes, I have a way with words. ( A terrible, terrible way. ) -.-

We've noticed.

[Jadedcarguy]

I'm skeered of Vista. I run a lot of 3D apps and all of the 3D forums I frequent have nothing good to say about Vista compatibility. As long as MS continues to support XP, I will run XP.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm still sticking with 2000, myself. It works for everything I want it to work with, and I suspect that by the time it stops working, I'll just go Mac or some *nix variant.

I don't really like XP much, which is what I have to use at work, and while I've heard some nice things about Vista (such as games running smoother), the bad things I've heard from people I trust to know what the hell they're talking about just outweigh them too much. Plus, the original licensing that MS said they were going to use makes me really, really not want to support them at all. They're either massively arrogant bastards or completely out of touch with reality as we know it. Or possibly both.

^-.-^

[Mad-Bassist]

My hotel put a public-use computer in the lobby running Vista, and so far it's not impressing me. Sure, the 3D accelerated eye candy is nice, but it takes forever to print a webpage. What happens? Guests will hit the print button a few times, and the printer will end up with a few duplicate pages left in it.

I noticed java isn't part of the system anymore. Maybe that has something to do with the fact java was recently open-sourced? I don't know. I don't normally touch that machine, but I was honor-bound to install the latest java on it so more websites would work on it.

The DivX codec seems to be part of the media player now which is nice, but it takes a long time for the current player to fire up and actually play. Personally, I prefer the Media Player Classic which looks and feels like the last version of the MS player that came with Win98, only it has neat things like a frame advance button and can decode the DTS soundtrack of DVDs. The only disadvantage is the arrow keys aren't programmed for DVD menu functions by default. (Psst... yes, it is a free DVD player without baggage!)

Since I'm on the subject of Media Player Classic, it's best to grab it as part of this: www.cccp-project.net - between that, Quicktime Alternative Lite, and Real Alternative Lite, I can play pretty much every kind of exotic video format that exists. I may occasionally have to play with the filters in FFDshow to get an occasional weird mp4 to play with video and sound, but it works!

Maybe Vista could be tweaked if I owned a copy and spent some time on it, as I've done with Win98SE and XP-Home-SP2. I was happy with 98 for a long time, but spent the extra money ($92) to get XP Home for my Tim Allen model computer. It's nice to be able to delete several thousand little files in one move without crashing Explorer as well as using the NTFS file system for editing giant video files. Okay, maybe playing Doom3 and Halo had something to do with it too.

I'm starting to play with Kubuntu on a machine I built for $350 or so. I have to admit Linux is getting easier to use all the time, and KDE is a beautiful thing. It's funny, but it installs with a Vista-style theme now. I'm tempted to buy a second hard drive for my big machine and install the 64-bit version of Kubuntu to finally take advantage of the AMD64 CPU, and see how my nVidia 6800GT video card reacts to it.

XP might eventually be relegated to gaming use in my house. Heh, even (K)ubuntu comes bundled with OpenOffice, and Firefox on Linux is smooth!

[Andara Bledin]

Since I'm on the subject of Media Player Classic, it's best to grab it as part of this: www.cccp-project.net

I picked up the K-lite Mega Codec pack when I did the re-install after replacing my hard drive. I have to say it's worked better than any other codec pack I've used and I didn't have to get anything else to use it. Bundled with Media Player Classic and all.

^-.-^

[wolfie]

In addition to the DRM issue, there are 2 major reasons I won't touch Vista with a 10 foot pole:

- Instead of being a text file, the license agreement (from what I've read) makes reference to terms on the Microsoft web site. What's to keep Microsoft from updating the web pages in question, so that the agreement is changed after you click the "agree" button? I'm thinking along the lines of adding an expiry date (for previous versions of Windows, Microsoft has tried and failed to get "diehards" to upgrade from a previous version).

- WGA (the "I think this is a pirate copy so I'm shutting down your machine" misfeature) is built in. Couple that with the changeable license agreement and you could see Vista users forced to upgrade to the new (possibly subscription) version - change the webpage to include "you agree to discontinue using this product on or before date x", then use WGA to turn off all Vista systems after date x.

[Geek King]

Mad-Bassist:

If the Vista machine is running that slow, I would suspect that it is running with minimum system requirements. Mine runs on 2GB of RAM, and the response time is excellent.


Back to the main thread:
As to the Vista v. XP arguement, all I will say (because I am tired of 'advising' friends who already have pre-(mis)conceptions ) is the following:

Vista is fine if you are very comfortable with computers. It is not ready for people who are not so good with the computer world. Backward compatability is a pain, but guess what? I lost use of most of my old DOS games when XP wandered in. These things happen. Do I think MS is making a mistake with the compatability problems? Yeah, but life goes on. If you think Vista is another ME, I suggest you go run ME again, for about a year. ME was a disaster of a system. Vista is just a little awkward right now because they are trying to do things differently for the first time since Win 95. It will take some time to iron out the issues, but I am finding it to be stable with software developed for it. My crashes have occured during my experiments with backward compatability.

Hmm...I seem to have gotten all ranty...I think I'll stop there.

[Mad-Bassist]

I picked up the K-lite Mega Codec pack when I did the re-install after replacing my hard drive. I have to say it's worked better than any other codec pack I've used and I didn't have to get anything else to use it. Bundled with Media Player Classic and all.

Yeah, I've used that before too—excellent all-in-one package. I've gone with CCCP because it seems to be leaner and meaner, especially since they released a new version that removes Win98 support. They'll always have the last full compatible version posted though, since I have the option of using my old Win98SE CD-ROM from the past for a new computer. Heh heh.

On that note, if you install Win98SE, grab this: UNOFFICIAL Windows98 Second Edition Service Pack 2.1a It has several of the fixes and adjustments I used to do by hand.

*laughs* I checked out the forum that's on that site now. One guy made a kernel patch that allows games like Doom 3 to run, and another has a package that makes 98 run like Vista. (Revolutions Pack 7.) It's interesting what you can find when you look.

If the Vista machine is running that slow, I would suspect that it is running with minimum system requirements. Mine runs on 2GB of RAM, and the response time is excellent.

It wouldn't surprise me. Since it's for our lobby, it's probably the cheapest brand-name machine possible. (I'll have to check it out with my favorite keyboard shortcut: Windows-Break!) The assistant manager's machine has XP, but only 128MB of RAM. It literally takes five minutes for the boot sequence to end and a long time to open any applications.

On a similar note, her home computer is an evil eMachine with WinME and 32MB of RAM. Same problem! Are these computer makers insane? After upgrading her to 160MB and reinstalling from the restore disk (there was a ton of spyware from her husband's surfing habits) it slowed down for no apparent reason after a couple weeks. I found a guy on the net that had the same thing happen on four unrelated computers! Well, I hunted down the drivers for the hardware (no small task,) "upgraded" them to Win98SE, and made IE and Windows Media Player disappear (deep in the start menu.) They've been happy with Firefox, MPClassic, AVG Free virus scanner, et cetera since.

Oh well, corporations aren't known for doing smart things.

[air914]

So is there anything GOOD or new and exciting about Vista? I have to teach a class on it and it's driving me nuts just trying to go through all the exercises we're supposed to do...... it says "go here and click on this" and "this" doesn't exist.... yes, the book is written badly too. However, I'm not seeing anything new and exciting in it. Yes, there's that ugly bar on the right you can add gadgets too - but I've seen someone download something like that from Yahoo that does the same thing. yes, Internet Explorer 7 has tabbed browsing - um so does Firefox - and Firefox had it first. Yes, you can search your desktop - um Google has a download for that. Yes, you can sort your pictures better - Google has a Picassa download for that. So WHAT is it that makes this system "new" and "better"? Why would anyone want to spend money on it when they can seemingly download the little "additions" for free and continue to use Windows XP? And even if you really love the Office 2007 stuff - you can run that on Windows XP. So I'm trying to see if there are actually any advantages to Vista - b/c I have to teach the class, and I'd like to be able to tell them there is SOMETHING good about it - or at least dazzle the students with something cool....... right now I feel like telling them "go online - everything that Vista has is available there - you can download it, or you can view most of it online. Games? You can find them online. Feeds? Stock quotes? Weather? Make a personal igoogle page, etc."

[technical.angel]

So far?

[air914]

Are you trying to tell me that's a lot of stuff to open? B/c basically I get all of it off of my igoogle page - so it's all still in one nice little area right when I open up my browser. And b/c of tabbed browsing, it's just like having a lot of things opened on my desktop and using the taskbar to access each one.

As far as the gadgets, the thing I saw yeseterday was a "hidden" toolbar on the right hand side of a computer that when you moved your mouse near it, it appeared and had several "gadgets" on it - and it was free. So that was right on your desktop.

I see Outlook open - and all of thier new "contacts" and "email" can be done through Outlook - and I think Outlook does a better job of it. Most people are going to buy the Office Suite anyway - so why use thier new "windows" e-mail when you can use Outlook?

Or are you trying to "show" me some of the features? Sorry - I'm not picking up on what you're trying to say.

[lordlundar]

So is there anything GOOD or new and exciting about Vista?

It looks pretty?

Seriously, I can't think of anything that makes me want to buy it. Hardware compatibility is bad due to the kernel restructuring, software compatibility sucks due to M$ readjusting the file system (why do you need a compatibility mode for XP?) And the new features, like the Aero interface or the new Games setup are really ineffective or eat up more system resources than is necessary. Add to the fact that M$ is force feeding Vista by cutting XP production to almost nil and coming out with stuff that will only run on Vista is not helping.

Or are you trying to "show" me some of the features? Sorry - I'm not picking up on what you're trying to say.

She's showing you the Aero Interface, which is a pretty rolodex setup. you can "scroll" to the window you want.

But if I have that many windows open, I need to manage my screen better then.

[technical.angel]

Sorry, distracted day.

I just like the rolodex view of all the windows. That way, when you have a crapton of windows open, you can see everything....

Okay, yeah, like Lord Lundar said, it looks pretty.

[air914]

Can't you just sort of ALT+TAB to see what you have open? That is if you don't look at your taskbar? Or just the fact that you can SEE all the windows you have open? Again, doesn't the same thing happen w/ Cascading windows or arranging windows on your desktop?

It does LOOK pretty - but that's the only "advantage" I can see.

[Mr. Rager!]

I have Vista, and I love it. Of course, I have a thing for eye candy.

I'm not running it on a slouch of a machine though. I have 2GB of RAM, that I'll eventually up to 3GB. I can hold up to 4GB on my computer, but since I have a 32bit, Vista will only read up to 3GB. Crazy.

Windows ME was a disaster. Vista will get its bugs worked out. I was at Best Buy one day talking to someone I know that works there, I had a friend along with me. And she said she'd like to get a laptop one day. She was only trying to get my friend's attention because she thinks he's cute. So she goes, "I wish I could get another computer with Windows ME on it." My friend and I just cracked up laughing. Oh yes, some people thought it was the most beautiful thing out there... then XP came out, and service packs were introduced for it. Opinions changed... we'll go through the same cycle with Vista.

As far as backwards compatibility is concerned, I've never had much use for it. So for me, it's not a big deal. My computer is for education, music and the web... that's it.