Dumbass personality tests and job applications

[Gurndigarn]

OK, you've posted it on the internet. And you're mostly in a group that will agree with you. And it was a decent letter up until you started threatening them, at which point the suit reading it probably thought "another gibbering ranter" and threw it into the trash.

Personality tests are a nuisance, and they don't do anything. No argument here, or anywhere else on this board. It's a fad, though, as companies try to reduce the amount of work that managers have to do to find good employees. It won't work, but honestly, the only way you're going to get rid of the things is to wait the fad out. Give it a few years, and when the suits are trying desperately to find good employees, they'll realize that the personality tests are more hinderance than help, they'll get rid of them on their own.

Or, if you want to rush things a bit, try the same letter without the threats. Use logic that can be taken into the board room instead of rants that are easy to sideline.

[CanadaGirl]

I find this test to be incredibly ridiculous. I've done this kind of work my entire life and because I answered what you consider wrong answers on some questions you are going to deny someone who desperately needs a job work because of a few wrong answers on your stupid test ???

On those kinds of tests, it's best to just answer with what you think the company wants to hear. Just bullshit it, honestly. If you say you have a ton of experience in retail, it won't matter that you 'lied' on the test, because you would have gotten the job and actually been able to provide customer service with those skills you've acquired over time.

I am going to post all over the internet of my experience with Hollywood video in the hopes that public outcry over these inane tests will lead to them being abolished.

Doing that would be childish.

Thank you so much for denying me the chance to earn a living and put food on the table.

Not their problem?

And no, I don't like being in crowds (an apparently "wrong" answer on your test). But whether I like it or NOT, it has no bearing whatsover on my ability to do a good job. And just so you know, NOT liking huge crowds does not make one a defective person which your test seems to imply. Do you want REAL people working for you or robots ?

To corp they see "do not like big crowds' on a personality test, as 'I will freak out and cry if 3 customers surround me with questions'.

First off, when writing a letter to a business/corporation, if you're yelling at them or calling their hiring process childish names, they're probably more than likely going to be snippy in their reply or just hit the delete button.

I had to do the entire "stupid" question system on the computers at Safeway, when I applied to be a cashier. Of course, I felt the questions were rather stupid, and I obviously didn't get that position, but I didn't get pissed off about it and make a complaint to Safeway corp. about how their training/computer system was "stupid and unfair". I chose the 'lower' job of a bagger or whatever they call it, and sucked it up.

Sorry, just my

[blas]

Don't feel bad!

I failed Blockbusters test, K-Marts, Wal-Marts, Targets, Sears, Macy's.......anywhere you can think of that has a personality test I failed!

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I was with you until this point:

I am going to post all over the internet of my experience with Hollywood video in the hopes that public outcry over these inane tests will lead to them being abolished.

Way to play the SC card there. If I'm the suit reading your letter I may well think "There's a good reason we have these personality tests--it prevented the letter writer from getting a job with us". And then your letter goes into the circular file and you get a form letter in response if you're lucky.

I agree those personality tests are a waste of time and exist only to help the company find "good" employees without going to the trouble of getting to actually know the applicant. But they are a part of the application process at many places and about the only thing you can do is give the answer you think the company will want to hear.

You're not childish for complaining, but your complaint itself is childish. It makes you seem self-righteous and petty and again makes the company feel they are justified for having such tests.

[Broomjockey]

I'm with you in spirit, but again, this is supposed to be a business letter. That means it isn't the place for emotion and hyperbole. The main goal of any business is to make money. They don't owe you a job, no matter how badly you need it. They have currently decided these stupid tests are a good way to save money because "they won't waste time interviewing unsuitable applicants, wasting the manager's time." The only way these things are going to quickly go away is if people do not apply to places that use them, and that's not likely to happen.

And trust me, we're being kind. You want rude feedback on your letter, go to Planet Feedback. A great number of the members there can be really polite, but then again, those same members have no compunction against ripping a letter apart to point out where it fails as a professional communcation.

Also, your last post is the very definition of a strawman argument: People point out a flaw in your argument, you change the subject to homelessness, and declare victory. Also, CanadaGirl simply said airing your grievence of not gaining employment is childish, as it is tantamount to blackmail, threatening to tar the company with a brush of evil if they don't conceed and give you what you want by involving people who have nothing to do with the situation.

Your situation sucks, yes. But this isn't going to help in any way shape or form. I hope you find something soon.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Yes..businesses DO owe people jobs, this is their sole reason for existance in my opinion as you cannot demand that people earn a living without providing a way to do it.

As opposed to such trivial things as producing a good or service I guess.

I'm not trying to flame you or anything Broom Jockey, I'm merely asking WHO decided what a business letter should or should not be.

Other human beings did. Which letter would you respond more favorably to:

Dear Company, I'm writing to let you know about x problem, so you are aware of it and can fix it. I don't want freebies or anything; I just wanted to make you aware of the problem.

or

Dear Company: Your company sucks. I'm never doing business with you again and I'm starting a letter writing campaign to tell the world how much you suck.

Nobody says a business letter has to free of emotion, but as the saying goes you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[powerboy]

I just need a job so badly, you know ? The stress and strain over money has become nearly unbearable to the point where I wonder if I can even go on sometimes.

I mean, why not tell these people how I feel about their stupid tests ? Why not tell them I'm posting all over the internet. Maybe it will make Hollywood Video ashamed of itself for denying a hard working person a job. That's my main goal.

The manager herself even told me they were stupid. She said they've hired people with perfect scores and those people turn around and flake on them.

I just don't get it. I've worked my whole life in customer service and now all of a sudden I CANT because of this bullshit ??? WTF ?

Not their problem.

The entire reason we have such a homeless problem. It's nobodies problem.

Well, I disagree. There's such a thing as social responsibility. When you deny someone a job (and a minimum wage crap one at that) no matter what their experience is because of a stupid test, an injustice has been done.

Also, since when did complaining to a company about something you find insane become childish.

Did I miss something ? I guess I'm too old here because I come from a time when standing up and holding a company accountable for their actions was just what people DID.

Not anymore I guess. We call those who complain childish. Whatever.

I hate those damn tests. Say one thing that they didn't want to hear, and you are not being hired. I went though 1.5 years of not working, and not being on unemployment. Its bullshit, that the person with the most experience cannot get a job. Its also bullshit, that we cannot complain to a company. Remember everyone, when you are stressed out enough and complain; that it does not mean that you are sucky. It just means that they are pissed off enough, and those damn tests doesn't help. I think Elvis done the right thing

[Gurndigarn]

Yes..businesses DO owe people jobs, this is their sole reason for existance in my opinion as you cannot demand that people earn a living without providing a way to do it.

I think this is the crux of the problem. You think businesses owe people jobs, but they don't. They may not be able to afford to pay people. They may be the type of job that only takes one person, tops. They may simply not have enough work to hire people on, or they may already have enough employees to fit the work they have. And even if they have positions, they have the right to try to find people who will fit the positions well. It may not be something you agree with... but if they overlook a competent potential employee, it's their loss.

Which is what those stupid pre-ap tests do. They weed out a lot of good potential employees, at no particular benefit. As I said before, everyone here will agree that they do no good, and should be removed ASAP.

Also, WHO says business letters should be free from emotion. They need to KNOW that these are real live human beings they are dealing with here and not emotionless robots. I'm not trying to flame you or anything Broom Jockey, I'm merely asking WHO decided what a business letter should or should not be.

I have no idea WHO decided this but I can bet the farm that it was some corporate swine on high that doesn't even HAVE emotions let alone understand them.

Um... here's another problem. You want them to see you as a real live human being, but your tone says that you're forgetting that they are real live human beings, too. (At least, that's what I translate "corporate swine on high" to mean.) And because they're real live human beings, they have emotions. If someone rants at them, they're likely to get defensive and dismissive of the message you're trying to deliver. Especially since the letter probably ended up on the desk of someone who deals with a lot of complaints. A ranting-type letter is going to mentally get blurred in with all the other rants he sees, and dismissed even more.

I know this seems very ranty, but really people, I am SO stressed out and strained over money. Having done this particular job before I know I am fully qualified and it just makes me NUTS that this stupid test is what stood in the way.

Well... not necessarily. It may have been the test, or it may have been a number of other things. They may have filled all the positions, or they may have had to cut back staff so they don't have any more positions, or they may not have liked your application for some other reason, or the manager may be a complete idiot, or their district manager may have had this absolutely wonderful idea about payroll that they're trying to figure out how to work around until he gets fired. Lots of possibilities, and not all of them involve the stupid test.

We do feel sympathatic for you. And we'ld love to see those tests gone. But, as someone said, ranting about them is more likely to get the guy reading the letter to say "Good thing we didn't get that guy— those tests worked" instead of "Yeah, those tests are stupid." We want him to think "Test = Stupid". So we're suggesting that ranting isn't the best approach, since a rant is more likely to make him think "Test = Good".

Have any of you been out of work for longer then 4 months ? If you have you know it stresses you out when the world expects you to pay for a living without gauranteeing you a job to do so.

Yes, I have been out of work for over four months. So have many of the other people here. It sucks, and it's difficult, and it's stressful. I wish you the best of luck, and wish I knew how to do more.

[Gurndigarn]

Well, for now at least....until I go back out there jobhunting monday and have to listen to the familiar chorus of "We'll call you either way".

Uh. Huh. Do any of us REALLY believe that tired old line ?

Nope. Not as a potential employee, and not as a manager. I tried doing that ONCE. After the responses I got from the people I called, I decided that anyone who was interested could call me instead.

[katie kaboom]

I think Elvis done the right thing

Just for the record, i do too. It would really be nice if certain people would stop looking down their noses at others. I think she made a good point and i do agree with her that these personality tests are pointless and unfair.

[Broomjockey]

What I said about homelessness was in response to Canada Girls comment about my needing a job not "being their problem".

It IS true that the "not my problem" attitude IS responsible for the homeless problem, so I'm not sure what your problem is regarding that comment.

I know you weren't flaming me, and I'm not flaming you.
My problem with that comment is it doesn't have anything to do with the rest of everything you say. A common tactic in debating when your position has been comprimised is to bring up issues not germane to what is currently being discussed. If you want to be taken seriously, stick to the topic at hand, and don't bring up side issues, even if you think they relate to the matter at hand.

As I said, I feel for you that you're having trouble getting a job, but you do have to look at it from their position, since you're demanding they look at it from yours. If you put your problem in a frame that fits in their world, then they're more likely to understand it. If they understand it, they can decide to do something about it.

Ideally, your letter should have been something along the lines of "I believe my many years of retail would make me a good employee for your company, despite the results of this test. I think you're missing out on a lot of quality employees like myself because we deviate from the standard set by your test." etc etc. If you sent that to the HR section of the company, someone could see that, and decide to give you a call back. Send that to the CEO of the company, and they might decide to think about the policy. Send a "I'm gonna DESTROY your company 'cause you guys are EVIL" letter, and they're not going to do anything, because now legal would have to get involved.

As others have said. Your *point* is valid, your *delivery* is off.

And we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on the point that a company owes you a job. Again, good luck in your continuing hunt.

[Broomjockey]

Oh, and the reason a business letter should be lacking emotion? Because most often the emotions included are outrage, anger, indignancy, etc. And if you put someone on the defensive right off (remember, a real human has to read this), they're going to be off-balance, trying to get back to at least "even footing." Which will NOT include doing anything you ask, as that tips it further to your side. Basic human psychology says that people engage in "like for like" behaviour. If you're nice, people are usually (yes, exceptions exist) nice in return. They'll want to help. They'll feel bad if they can't help. If you're shouting at them, why should they do more than the minimum to get you to go away, which in this case is ignoring your letters? Remember, the most effective way to spur action isn't logic or ethics, it's emotion, so you have to be careful which emotions you're triggering. Your letter would be good to inspire boycotters, as they should be fueled by anger, but you need compassion from the company, which requires a soft sell.

[Kiwi]

While I was recently looking for a job i had to do one of those tests,

It kept asking the same question over and over versed in different ways, thats a waste of my time. If you are going to try and trick someone into saying something they dont mean, then the test results arent "real" in my opinion.

I dont want to work with an employer who is suspicious before I have even walked in the door! I realise people have to protect themselves against dishonest people, but asking me multi choice questions is not going to find out for you, its just going to upset the honest employees.

[Phone Jockey]

response

OK, you've posted it on the internet. And you're mostly in a group that will agree with you. And it was a decent letter up until you started threatening them, at which point the suit reading it probably thought "another gibbering ranter" and threw it into the trash.

Yes, I agree with your assessment, Gurn. I read & respond to e-mails for the cable company & I really appreciate the sensible e-mails that I receive. However, when I get someone threatening to "drag our company's name through the mud," I stop empathizing. The person is not interested in a practical solution, rather, s/he just wants to rant & rave & I'm the unlucky bastard who got the e-mail. Lucky me. Sometimes, those customers even wait longer to receive a response b/c it's going to take longer to respond anyway. I'll take the simpler e-mails first, then return to the ranter. Hey, it works for me...

PJ

[Gravekeeper]

I'm with Broom here. I'm sympathetic with your plight but malign your delivery and argument. Which are, bluntly put, childish and vindictive.

As someone who handles the receiving end a lot too and is often the front line of the Corporation(tm) I can tell you flat out that if you had sent that to me I would disregard whatever point you might have had and have no desire to help you. It doesn't matter if you have a valid point or not if you can't deliver it to me in a mature, professional manner. If you are nice to me, I'll be nice to you and consider your position. But if I received a big ranting, threatening, screaming letter blaming this test for your failure to land a job.....then my thought would be "Hey, the tests are working.". Which is the complete opposite of the point you want to make and honestly it seems more like you just proved them right more then anything else.

Also, businesses do NOT owe you a job. Period. Businesses are just that, businesses. They're going to go whichever route they perceive to be the best option to improve their business. Whether or not you agree with it. They are not obligated to you in any way and blaming them for your employment woes is pretty silly.